ITB's on a 416Ci and cam LSA??
Thread Starter
10 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 458
Likes: 2
From: Birmingham UK
It just wouldnt fit, you can see where we had indent it already to get it to fit.
Are these the bottle neck or the Dart 225 heads? would some PRC/Trickflow/Afr be a worthwhile addition?
Are these the bottle neck or the Dart 225 heads? would some PRC/Trickflow/Afr be a worthwhile addition?
KW
Banned
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 948
Likes: 1
lstvr:
Yea i thought of that after typing and seeing the header. Now to your other ? of the heads. Yes and no depends on the porting involved, Short side radius & bowls help and the Added area you spoke of would accommodate more CFM. That would run around $1000 to $1300 vs $2200 for TFS/TSP bare heads etc. You could also ask for a somewhat larger valve. Just did the research. You have a 2.050 valve a 2.100 to 2.125 valve would be even better. If the porter had to open the chamber up some for the larger valve you could get that back with a slight mill. Better stated is that if you had a good porter do the work the others heads spoken of Aren't needed. They'd all be in the same ballpark. Let me show you what I'm speaking of.
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-...der-head-test/
Not off by much??????? Wonder what a little work could or would do?
Heres someone who thinks like i think:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...225-heads.html
KW: 460overkill had a Crazy ITB once it's dialing in, it 's good but takes work and time as with anything else. 800hp 460 ls build
It just wouldnt fit, you can see where we had indent it already to get it to fit.
Are these the bottle neck or the Dart 225 heads? would some PRC/Trickflow/Afr be a worthwhile addition?
Are these the bottle neck or the Dart 225 heads? would some PRC/Trickflow/Afr be a worthwhile addition?
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-...der-head-test/
Not off by much??????? Wonder what a little work could or would do?
Heres someone who thinks like i think:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...225-heads.html
KW: 460overkill had a Crazy ITB once it's dialing in, it 's good but takes work and time as with anything else. 800hp 460 ls build
Banned
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 948
Likes: 1
Found this guy on here who speaks of what I said.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...art-225-s.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...art-225-s.html
08-14-2007, #6
Galen
12 Second Club
I got lucky and Dart ported mine. John told me that mine were really close to what the final CNC version would look like. You may want to give them a call and see if they ever got the program lined out. Here are the flow numbers from the flowsheets supplied by Dart comparing my hand ported heads to the PRC stage 2 ported heads I swapped them out for due to unbelievable oil consumption issues.
PRC ported Stage 2 Darts
Intake...........Corr CFM.......%Exh/Int
.200............146.7
.300............210.6
.400............267.3
.500............302.1
.600............310.3
.700............308.1
Exhaust
.200............103.3............70.4
.300............143.7............68.2
.400............182.2............68.2
.500............207.1............68.5
.600............223.0............71.9
.700............232.3............75.4
Darts with cleanup work performed at Dart (not sure if 205 or 225 ports)
Intake...........Corr CFM.......%Exh/Int
.200............149.3
.300............205.1
.400............261.5
.500............293.2
.600............319.5
.700............334.0
Exhaust
.200............111.7............74.8
.300............153.3............74.7
.400............190.3............72.8
.500............218.0............74.3
.600............228.8............72.5
.700............235.7............70.6
All flow work was performed on a 4 inch bore with radiused inlets and no exhaust port adapter. I don't have flow numbers on what the box stock Darts flow, but I am sure someone on here has flowed a set. If not, call John over at Dart and I am sure he can get you some hard data.
Galen
12 Second Club
I got lucky and Dart ported mine. John told me that mine were really close to what the final CNC version would look like. You may want to give them a call and see if they ever got the program lined out. Here are the flow numbers from the flowsheets supplied by Dart comparing my hand ported heads to the PRC stage 2 ported heads I swapped them out for due to unbelievable oil consumption issues.
PRC ported Stage 2 Darts
Intake...........Corr CFM.......%Exh/Int
.200............146.7
.300............210.6
.400............267.3
.500............302.1
.600............310.3
.700............308.1
Exhaust
.200............103.3............70.4
.300............143.7............68.2
.400............182.2............68.2
.500............207.1............68.5
.600............223.0............71.9
.700............232.3............75.4
Darts with cleanup work performed at Dart (not sure if 205 or 225 ports)
Intake...........Corr CFM.......%Exh/Int
.200............149.3
.300............205.1
.400............261.5
.500............293.2
.600............319.5
.700............334.0
Exhaust
.200............111.7............74.8
.300............153.3............74.7
.400............190.3............72.8
.500............218.0............74.3
.600............228.8............72.5
.700............235.7............70.6
All flow work was performed on a 4 inch bore with radiused inlets and no exhaust port adapter. I don't have flow numbers on what the box stock Darts flow, but I am sure someone on here has flowed a set. If not, call John over at Dart and I am sure he can get you some hard data.
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Joined: Apr 2017
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Main thing Brother is to Find someone who's good and competent and does things in a timely fashion.
Call Darin Morgan or Chris Frank* there are others* and see if they can pencil you in. Just be clear about what your wanting and that the heads don't need gutting. They'd know this because they'd build your heads Specifically for you engine size and rpm. CSA rule of thumb.
Call Darin Morgan or Chris Frank* there are others* and see if they can pencil you in. Just be clear about what your wanting and that the heads don't need gutting. They'd know this because they'd build your heads Specifically for you engine size and rpm. CSA rule of thumb.
Thread Starter
10 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 458
Likes: 2
From: Birmingham UK
Main thing Brother is to Find someone who's good and competent and does things in a timely fashion.
Call Darin Morgan or Chris Frank* there are others* and see if they can pencil you in. Just be clear about what your wanting and that the heads don't need gutting. They'd know this because they'd build your heads Specifically for you engine size and rpm. CSA rule of thumb.
Call Darin Morgan or Chris Frank* there are others* and see if they can pencil you in. Just be clear about what your wanting and that the heads don't need gutting. They'd know this because they'd build your heads Specifically for you engine size and rpm. CSA rule of thumb.
also a port, we didn’t go mad on the valve guide area though.
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 948
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I seen your post while I was Xbox live and said let me get at you before it's late. aka: your in the UK. Have friends on the game from there and timing is everything.
I'm LSX RACING on XB live... LMAO but so true.
Ok so I understand what your saying but .... let me say there's only so much a small valve can do... even with all you did. Hence I behold to you: Greg Good and Factory heads on a 414. Darts are better........ a *Great*head porter can do wonders.
These aren't just your avg guy's at your local machine shop. Brian Tooley could do work also. G.Good is always busy Unless you know someone. I do and you'd have to get in line. The particular valve angle your at could use a 2.100 valve with no worries. Maybe even 2.165. Still would be cheap @ under $1500 bucks. And you'd have something unique.
I had ProComp Ls7 heads made to fit a 4.030 bore just because:1 they said it couldn't be done without the aftermarket and I was told and taught Different. 2nd was I said I could get a better Flow figure*I did* for a head made just for my engine cheaper than what they sell them for. And that is Mast or AllPro* there better than mine but I did that. So D. Morgan on the ph line. 1 of the Best darn porters this side of the Atlantic or you can say Pacific either or. Not knocking the guy's who did the work. The people I'm talking about are at the top of the game, a brand nor manufacturer make any difference..they do work. Ask your people: what a bigger valve gets you and BTW use a hollow stem if you go larger.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...g-results.html
I'm LSX RACING on XB live... LMAO but so true.
Ok so I understand what your saying but .... let me say there's only so much a small valve can do... even with all you did. Hence I behold to you: Greg Good and Factory heads on a 414. Darts are better........ a *Great*head porter can do wonders.
These aren't just your avg guy's at your local machine shop. Brian Tooley could do work also. G.Good is always busy Unless you know someone. I do and you'd have to get in line. The particular valve angle your at could use a 2.100 valve with no worries. Maybe even 2.165. Still would be cheap @ under $1500 bucks. And you'd have something unique.
I had ProComp Ls7 heads made to fit a 4.030 bore just because:1 they said it couldn't be done without the aftermarket and I was told and taught Different. 2nd was I said I could get a better Flow figure*I did* for a head made just for my engine cheaper than what they sell them for. And that is Mast or AllPro* there better than mine but I did that. So D. Morgan on the ph line. 1 of the Best darn porters this side of the Atlantic or you can say Pacific either or. Not knocking the guy's who did the work. The people I'm talking about are at the top of the game, a brand nor manufacturer make any difference..they do work. Ask your people: what a bigger valve gets you and BTW use a hollow stem if you go larger.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...g-results.html
Last edited by Patron; Nov 14, 2017 at 07:01 PM.
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To much going on last night, gaming & talking while watching the CBB games. Bring back a oldie but a goodie here's. Project OvrKILL 460 ITB. I told you guy's I have all the good stuff bookmarked no time to post last night.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...93-octane.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...93-octane.html
Thread Starter
10 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 458
Likes: 2
From: Birmingham UK
Shipping heads to and from is maybe $250, plus the porting $1500? I can get around $650 for these Darts in the UK, and i dont know exactly what to expect..
However if I get some heads from the US at Around the $2500 mark, i have Brand new guides valves and castings, plus some proven data on what people have achieved, the PRC247 Head and cam/pushrod package looks good value at $2900, are the Trickflow worth that bit extra?
However if I get some heads from the US at Around the $2500 mark, i have Brand new guides valves and castings, plus some proven data on what people have achieved, the PRC247 Head and cam/pushrod package looks good value at $2900, are the Trickflow worth that bit extra?
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Joined: Apr 2017
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The very best thing to Do is Email or Call a few of these guys and ask it maybe Cheaper Honestly I just ballparked a high number $. My ls3 head where ported for $1100. If they have a program it's really economical avg around 1000 to 1200. Even as low as $900 depending. You have a good base head to work with that's why another head isn't needed. I know you saw that a Factory head flowed 350cfm who Does that? The guy with the Rick Flare touch. And those aren't inflated numbers nither. You've got a better base product. It never hurts to call or email and get prices. But I can say this if you ask a few questions you can learn A lot. And honestly once learned you'd think another purchase is a waste. Try it out before you make a purchase it doesn't cost you a dime and learn something in the process. Bigger valve is still needed FACT.
That's more than likely what would come from any heads you said you liked. I'm not big on the name of the heads ....But who did the work on them. You could Buy TFS or PRC heads and they could still need work to maximize a given combo. Just try it out and if you don't like what you hear or see .... Make the purchase.
Funniest thing is you said $2900 for a head that would make avg hp vs any other heads out. And you have a set. PRC or TFS are in the same basic boat they'll both be within livable numbers. I like PRC and TFS is well known that they make some bad $hi+. That head comparison tells you what's going on. They'll all be in ballpark distance. That's just me.... I luv for the guy's I looked up too or like doing my heads. I KNOW they can make anything my little mind can think of. There the best in the field with cylinder heads. $1500 maybe more maybe less VS $2900 and your still in touchable site. I gotta remember your across the pond. Send a message and try it out can't hurt.
That's more than likely what would come from any heads you said you liked. I'm not big on the name of the heads ....But who did the work on them. You could Buy TFS or PRC heads and they could still need work to maximize a given combo. Just try it out and if you don't like what you hear or see .... Make the purchase.
Funniest thing is you said $2900 for a head that would make avg hp vs any other heads out. And you have a set. PRC or TFS are in the same basic boat they'll both be within livable numbers. I like PRC and TFS is well known that they make some bad $hi+. That head comparison tells you what's going on. They'll all be in ballpark distance. That's just me.... I luv for the guy's I looked up too or like doing my heads. I KNOW they can make anything my little mind can think of. There the best in the field with cylinder heads. $1500 maybe more maybe less VS $2900 and your still in touchable site. I gotta remember your across the pond. Send a message and try it out can't hurt.
Last edited by Patron; Nov 15, 2017 at 09:37 AM.