Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

Hi guys,

Now that the holidays are over and my LS3 engine is out, I'm ready to "Dive" into my build.

I bought a Huron Speed A/C Turbo Kit last year for my 20,3xx mile SOM 2001 Camaro SS M6 and I'm going to use a Turbonetics 7575 Turbo. Unsure about actual power levels but from what other people have done in the past, making 800+ RWHP should be easy for my combo. I'm guessing I'll be running 15lbs of boost, maybe a tad more. I'm also going to be using a Alky methanol kit.

Since my car will be 95% street driven and probably only put 2,000 miles on it a year, I'm not sure If it makes a difference on internal engine parts selection.

At this point, I'm not 100% on who will build my short block. I have some ideas and questions I need to figure out before I contact sponsors on here about building me a short block.
I'm going to use all new parts. New LS3 block, new 3.622" GM crank, King Bearings, ARP head studs, LS9 head gaskets, Melling 10295 oil pump....



- What brand of pistons should I go with? I'm sure it doesn't matter too much as long I go with forged pistons. Wiseco, Diamond, JE, etc...


- What cc dish should I get for boost? I'm going to use LS9 head gaskets along with my current TEA ported LS3 heads with stock chambers. I've read for mainly a street car, I don't need to lower the CR as much since it will make it feel "doggy" or lack the snappiness at lower RPMs. I was thinking maybe -3cc piston (valve reliefs) to get my CR down to about 10.1-1 or go with a -11cc piston to get it down to 9.3 CR.


- Do I use the rings that come with some of the sets of pistons or order separate? Does it matter on brand of rings?


- What's a good ring gap for boost on a 4.070" Bore? In my research, it seems like there is a fine line between just right or too much gap when you start to "bleed off" some power.


- What brand of rods should I go with? As with pistons, I'm sure a good quality rod will work but what best fits my needs. K1, Eagle, Lunati, etc...


- Do I really need ARP 2000 rod bolts? Since the highest I'll probably spin the motor is 6,800 rpms, are they needed?


With all that said, if it really warrants putting in a better part while I'm in there, I'll do it. I have seen so many times in my life where people WAY OVER DO IT and gain very little or nothing buy spending extra. Spending 25% more on parts to gain 3% more power just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not racing my car for money or going to the strip all the time, I'm just looking for something that will last for years to come.

I'm sure I'll have more questions, just need pointed in the right direction since I've never had a short block built for boost before.

Thx,

Bill

Patron

Get with Lil John he'll point you in the right direction for most of your major questions. On the piston/rings, and rods it's all *preference*. But Callies is well known for holding up with turbo apps. K1,Eagle Lunati should be able to hold what your asking. Some like Wiseco,I'm a JE guy myself while others like Diamond. On rings I love the Total Seal MS version....a little higher in cost but a darn good ring package ordered pistons without rings so as to get the Total Seals. All the parts you listed are good it all comes back to *preference*.

KCS

iTrader: (20)

Since you're having your engine built by a sponsor, these questions should be answered by your engine builder after you talk to them. They can tell you what brands they have had success with at your desired power level. They can also recommend any upgrades that may be needed for that brand, like a different ring set or a thicker wall pin. They'll know what ring gaps and what bearing clearances to run as well. Do the research, pick your engine builder, and put your trust in them.

Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

Thx Patron



I want to try to educate myself with people on here that have real world experience. That way when I call in to inquire on a short block build I'm not totally clueless. There are two sides of an opinion on parts, One side from a an builder that's builds engines for people, another from people that uses those engines.

Then you have the time for each phone call, I plan on contacting 8-10 engine builders, 20-30 minutes for each call, that's a lot of time.

KCS

iTrader: (20)

I understand, and like you said, there are two sides. Believe me when I say that from your engine builder's perspective, there is almost no better way to get off on the wrong foot than to question them with "well I read on the internet....". A guy named French Grimes has a saying, "tuned by committee". He recommends avoiding taking advice from too many people so that if something doesn't work out, you aren't left with everyone pointing their fingers at each other and no real solution.

Obviously, your question about what brands you should use doesn't really have an answer. Whatever your builder recommends will probably work just fine. Whether or not to replace the rings will depend on what brand you buy since they all usually come with different brands and types of rings, if at all. A steel top ring with a Napier second should work just fine. The ring gaps are per the manufacturer and usually range from around .0045" to .0055" per inch of bore, but again, I would leave that to the engine builder. You might want to ask about a pin upgrade though.

Aftermarket rods pretty much all have ARP bolts; the more popular ones are 7/16" diameter in either 8740 or 2000 alloy. Either should be fine as turbo applications don't really put much stress on the rod bolts. Some rods have a better profile to clear the block or camshaft in strokers, but with a stock crank, you don't have to worry about that.

Everyone has their own preference on compression ratios as well. That might be a discussion for your tuner. The more compression and boost you use for a given fuel will narrow your tuning window; meaning things can go from safe to destructive more quicklly. There are lots of variables which would be a lengthy conversation, but you'll want to decide if the risk of higher compression is worth it.

Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

Thanks for the tips and advice, it's much appreciated.

Spending $4-5k on a short block is a lot of money to most people. I just want to be somewhat educated on my build and not be upsold on products I don't really need just so they can make more profit. Unfortunately it happens to so many people everyday that are not in the know...

I will be doing my own tuning. I have been tuning LS engines using LS1 Edit and then HP Tuners since 2003. I've probably tuned over 400-500 combos on and off the dyno over the years. I've tuned a few supercharged cars but this will be my first turbo project/tune. Just Air, Fuel, and Spark. I'm a little more conservative when it comes to tuning.

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi Bill, here is your problem, it is Engine Balance COST.

My method is to fit my Forged 4.00" Crankshaft with 1850 BW.
The cost will be close when you consider the Engine Balance Cost with Mallory Slugs & their fitment. (OEM 3.622"/4.00" increase)
I use RaceTech Pistons DESIGNED for the 4.00" stroke. (short tang skirts)
I would fit my Forged Rods with 8740 Bolts.
I fit/sell NPR Steel Rings.
I would specify an "offset" pin placement. (OEM side)

Would you like my help ?

Lance

Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

Lance,

I'm not sure I understand your post. Do you suggest I go with a 4" stroke?

Always looking for advice and/or help, willing to learn.

Bill

A.R. Shale Targa

iTrader: (2)

meant for different balance related thread perhaps.....?????

KCS

iTrader: (20)

My Google Translate app is having trouble, but I think he's saying the cost to go with a 4" stroke crank is minimal compared to what it costs to use a stock stroke crank.

Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

I would love to go with a 4" stroke for my build and make it a 416" but I had many email conversations with Jon at Huron Speed and with my kit and turbo, he stressed the extra cubic inches would "be too much" for my combo. I think he also said I wouldn't have as much top end and I would have a lot of exhaust back pressure.

pantera_efi

iTrader: (1)

Hi Bill, KCS is correct, the cost to Balance the OEM crankshaft could be $650.00.

This depends on the Rod/Piston weights ?
My Forged 4" crankshaft has a BW of 1850.
My Rods/Pistons should weight about 1835 BW requirement.

I have down Twin Turbos/Single Turbos since 1973 with GREAT results.

The Turbosupercharger IS RATED in Horse Power NOT CID.
THUS RPM is a factor of major concern NOT engine size.

The 4" crankshaft upgrade will "spool" faster, more torque, LESS engine knock AND could cost LESS !

Lance

MikeHolmen

Nice build, curious on how everything is going to fit together.

I have a 85 vette with an LS 6.0L engine installed.

Planning to add some forced induction at some point.

blk00ss

iTrader: (66)

Is there a Lance language option on that app?

blk00ss

iTrader: (66)

I guess a 416 with a 75mm would be cool if you wanted the powerband of a diesel.

Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

I do have an M6, so it might not be that bad. lol j/k....

I think I'm going to go with a stock cube forged LS2 short block and use my TEA ported LS3 heads and LS3 intake.

I'm just going to sell my stock LS3 short block. It only has about ~ 7,000 miles on it.

MikeHolmen

You could always change the A/R on the turbine housing to adjust how soon the turbo spools vs. more top end power (smaller to larger A/R housing). I see that turbonetics sells to turbine housings 0.96 and a 1.15, T-4 foot.

Looks similar to a GT4202, not sure if the turbine housings can be swapped between turbos.

With the engine/turbo combo should make one heck of a street car.

Billiumss

iTrader: (11)

I thought about bigger turbine housing but I already have a 1.15 AR, don't think I can get a bigger one for that turbo.

RealQuick

iTrader: (14)