Puck

iTrader: (17)

For insurance I would replace the head gasket, make sure your heads have good valve springs, and install quality head studs. That's it. Just make sure the tune is spot on and be conservative with your timing/AFR and you will be fine.

These motors don't need a ton of boost to make 600rwhp like imports, and are easier to make live at that power level.

JoeNova

Wastegate failed (my fault). ZERO knock retard. No signs of detonation. This was with a billet S475 at 9.9:1 compression on 93 and a cam aimed at mid range power-torque. Happened during a street pull on my way to work. Did probably 3 more pulls before I got home that day before I realized I was pegging the boost gauge instantly.

Mavn

iTrader: (3)

Bone Stock 4.8l here with a cam and ARP Bolts. 12 psi and damn near 600 rwhp Unlocked

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

This should be at the first post under the first question

now to play DA as usual, and keep up the learning,

Only thing I disagree with still is the super-safe timing and fat AFR as a method for saving engines not designed for boost at high output (2x +)

Just because you run one with 150k or gapped rings doesn't mean the op will. Hes talking about from scratch. Furthermore using safe timing is just throwing more heat into the exhaust, coolant, and engine making it worse. Using more fuel than typical BSFC of .65 is also frowned upon, from a conservation point of view, and it presents a potential spark blowout just like water and is completely unnecessary when you could be injecting water instead, saving fuel.

the bottom line is that water > fuel for cooling, and its cheaper. I think that is all that needs to be said here.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

bet it pulled like hell for those pulls lol.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Only one in here requiring learning would be you. While you're theorizing, the rest of us are actually doing. Let us know when you stop running 3psi or whatever ridiculous boost level you're running.

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

Nobody here is sharing any info. They just keep saying "make sure the tune is good" but nobody says what that is.

Its a good way of pretending to be helpful, without actually being helpful.

When I am done with my setup, all info will be avail free.
Wheres yours? I just saw my first LS motor a year ago in person. I put 8k on it testing and finding flaws.

What is your excuse for not sharing yet?
Need more people to come in here and suggest water injection after 10psi for safety? Gonna get mad again

Mavn

iTrader: (3)

STOCK bottom 4.8's making 1000 RWHP and running for years.. lol ask Mykel Wagner... or Cesar Enriquez...

Mavn

iTrader: (3)

I'm about to push my 4.8l with about 20#.. See what we can run

JoeNova

Safe timing doesn't throw in more heat. It throws in more EXHAUST heat because the burn isn't being used anymore to produce as much cylinder pressure. Its being burned later, causing a slower burn that is sent out of the exhaust. This is why low timing will cause headers to glow at idle. More timing produces more cylinder pressure and heat. Rings butt together from increased timing.

LS cylinder heads are incredibly efficient. Turbo SBCs typically run 10 degrees more timing than an LS because they're still peaking up power at 20 degrees on pump gas when an LS has already made peak torque and isn't increasing further passed 14. Running more timing is simply going to cause a failure. Ever hear anyone making big power on turbo Gen 3 hemis? No, they say that the engine will blow up over 600 hp AT THE FLYWHEEL. Wanna see a trick? Run single digit timing and a TON of boost on those things, and watch them make 800+ all day.

The amount of fuel being sprayed in an engine far outweighs the water. Even if water cools better per mass/volume, the fuel itself will cool cylinder temps a lot more. Not to mention, fuel makes power and water typically doesn't, so adding fuel isn't as detrimental as adding water. It also helps compensate for poor tuning, poor timing, runaway boost, etc, without adding extra variables.

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

1. Listen to yourself. Exhaust gas temp is cylinder temp. The gas comes OUT of the cylinder hotter- yes? So that means the piston and cylinder wall is also getting hotter.

It doesn't magically get hot once it leaves the cylinder lol.

2. we aint talkin whats possible in general. We are talkin what is possible on a brand new, 100% OEM 4.8 5.3 or 6.0L truck engine. OEM gaps and this kid thinks 10's:1 or 9:1 a/f is the answer! apparently! What a waste of gas. I could save his customers soooo much money.

I install the RO system free in ur house and you get water for $0.005/gallon to drink or use in the car. (not srs)

3. fuel partly turns to water, so its chemistry the same just an CxHx + XH2O = H2O + CO2 we are looking at. Your way of "seeing it" could use a new angle perhaps. Look at starting and final states, and visualize the atoms doing what they do. Put little arrows on the bond energies coming in or out.

JoeNova

Once you actually have the slightest bit of experience with a turbo LS, then you can come and have a discussion.

BTW. a Google search of your user name and about 5 minutes of digging comes up with some HILARIOUS results there Mr Skyline King.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Because you won't shut the hell up and stay on 1 train of thought for more than 1 post. I've already stated that I posted in a thread of how I tune. And would be happy to share what AFR I target and timing and other things I do to keep the engine alive.....but you're so arrogant and feel the need to disprove people who are literally doing what you're claiming as impossible, that nobody gets a chance to share, nor should they feel obligated to share since you'll just try and poke holes at what works. You do realize 400hp on a SBE LS1 used to be the king of the hill right? No way 500hp was possible....then it slowly became the norm.....now 600 is the norm as people have tried, failed, and learned what works and what doesnt. The difference is the people that can-do, the people that can't theorize.

Thanks for proving my point, AGAIN. Where did I say 10's or 9's? I didn't because you won't shut up long enough and be humble enough to ask honest questions without trying to immediately disprove what has already been proven. Don't worry though, you'll just be added to my list of tuners that tuned someones car and they hated it or it broke, and I came in and fixed it and satisfied the customer.

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

Everyone is so mad and clueless (I have no turbo LS?)

/job well done

Just because I sold a million skylines at one point I can't have an LS? All piston engines work the same last time I checked.



You get mad when someone passes u with 2.6L?

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

You running 93 or 93 and meth?

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Honestly, no I don't consider you having a turbo LS cause a truck motor running 3 psi is basically a waste of time. You put some actual boost to it or run it at the track with a reasonable time and then you can have a turbo LS. You can achieve positive intake manifold pressure with an NA motor, so what you're doing is barely better than that.

Need4Camaro

iTrader: (1)

Sooo at 42 PSI what happens when you nail the gas from a dead stop? Does it just like warp kind of like one of those StarTrek Starships and when you let off the gas you're in another continent?

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Its gotta be back to the future....he made that post tomorrow.

Mavn

iTrader: (3)

Pump e85 No meth

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

its called a build for a reason. Remember where the guy said things happen in phases and I said it describes my build exactly?

No you probably dont read what I write just like I dont read urs.

Well sorry but its time to make you look arrogant now.
I said 11.8 and you scoffed at that. So then I said 10's and you scoffed at that too. The only thing between 10 and 11.8 is 11.7-11.0. And since 11.7 is very close to 11.8 surely you don't think that it makes a difference being .1 lower. that leaves 11.0 to 11.6 as ur suggested range. I'm going to naturally choose the farthest thing from 11.8 that isn't 10's, 11.0 to 11.2, as your laughable a/f that is going to make all the difference from my suggested 11.8 (which I only mentioned as a minimum for fuel conservation purposes to which you also laughed and said you do not spend that much time at WOT to need to worry about it.)


Two things come to mind next.
1. if you came to me and wanted to make 600rwhp using an oem 6.0 with un-gapped piston rings and also you claim "the tune is everything" and suggested 11.0 as an A/F ratio. I would say let me look at some numbers first.
366x6200/3456 = 656cfm * .069 = 450 corrected bhp
but then engine is stock, so
450 * .78 = 351bhp
minus drivetrain loss through an 4l80e,
351 * .82 = 287rwhp stock, is this about right for a stock 6.0 4l80e?

research: wiki thinks I am in the ballpark, which is all that matters atm:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LS_bas...l-block_engine
Assuming those are bhp numbers, my estimate was actually high which will help make it look a bit "safer" on paper when we add boost.

So now, boost. Double it with about 18psi of boost 287 * 2 = 570rwhp.

Looks like it needs close to 20psi to achieve 600whp this way. So, no, I wouldn't call it safe on 93 octane, the tune isn't "everything", common sense has to play a role somewhere and tell us when to stop with the unnecessary risk. Maybe 1 pass on the dyno for fun, but not racing around a hot track like that. Motor needs a cam to bring boost down, next mod. And if racing around a road course water is worth its weight in gold. Many racing bodies do not allow injections of any kind when they provide the fuel.


2. you really got upset over 11.2 vs 11.8 so there is a problem dude. Im not making fun of you, it just seems like you get upset over certain numbers, specifically 3 and 8 and sometimes 5. You hate 3psi for some reason and pretend like 7 or 10 is going to make it "a real turbo motor" lol. And you hate 11.8 even though the number on the gauge is skewed by sensor position, temperature, and manufacturing tolerances, and variations between cylinders. A totally different number exists for each individual cylinder that has nothing to do with what is on the gauge besides it played a role in 1/8 (.125 of what you see) of the averaged display, which will often read differently than the one on the dyno at the tailpipe anyways! And yet still you pretend the number .5 on your gauge (wherever it is, whoever makes it, whatever cylinders it averages, whatever temperature it is, ) is going to make some kind of difference in the tune to "make safe an engine at high enough boost levels to more than double the output from suffering thermal expansion related catastrophic failure". Anybody with an engineering background can see ur full of **** over this and just want to argue.

this makes pandas sad, mate