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TFS 245 vs. TFS 260

 
Old 03-03-2019, 04:09 PM
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Brodix br7 is a tremendous head
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Old 03-03-2019, 04:40 PM
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All Pro heads have the best i feel. Depending on casting you can run a 5.980 long valve Real raised runner Ls7 head/ c5r, many options such as valve spacing for a smaller bore. Higher in cost as cast with no port.
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Old 03-03-2019, 05:12 PM
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im no expert, but i just went through this and i already sent a message to the op, since i feel involved cause i sold him the block lol. but what really helped me make decision, was the fact that 95% of the head guys out there care about 2 things, they either care about head flow numbers to make their heads appear superior to others, or they just go straight to sup 300 ports and chase numbers and post dyno graphs. not many head experts seem to give a **** about the driveability, or care about what happens under 4000 rpms with a giant port. all you are doing when you buy these heads is buying a "guarantee" if that makes sense. they didn't sell you on a quality head, they sold you on posted flow numbers or horsepower numbers. like in tommy boy with that guarantee scene, all you are doing is buying a flow number instead of a warranty


this guy already said he wants to spin no more than 7000 rpms, honestly any head is capable of that. and telling him to go get LS3 heads because of the intake choices? again he's spinning 7000, any intake can theoretically be used here, he doesnt need a metal intake to handle his 7000 rpm goal. i made my purchase because i dont need flow numbers and i dont need a dyno guarantee (even tho i know what its goona be) i needed to be sold on the fact of its low speed characteristics, because its a street car.

Last edited by Floorman279; 03-03-2019 at 06:13 PM. Reason: .......
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Old 03-03-2019, 05:37 PM
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Common sense there Smokey.
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Old 03-03-2019, 06:24 PM
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another way of looking at the giant LS7 head, back in the day most of the people doing cam swaps went with the mid to upper and even low 240 duration on cams. because thats what you were told you needed to do to make power. there were a few running the 228R and other ones like it but most did the big guys from what i saw. but then time went on and people got the cam events figured out and now we learned, hey we dont need this big of cams anymore, we can run smaller and gain more low end with minimal loss up top and have much better driveability down low. the same can be had with this ls7 head conversation. i know an awesome tuner can tune just about anything to be drivable at low speeds, but most of the tuners im assuming cant get a 285+ Ls7 head to drive like butter. what im saying is some people found a way to run a smaller head with minimal sacrifices but beneficial in many other areas just like the cam gurus found out how to run a smaller cam and make great power. anybody can grind a large cam and make a number, just like anybody can gut a head to make power....but at what cost?
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Old 03-03-2019, 06:25 PM
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To the guy talking about a huge port (Porters cnc programs) understand this, you've got to Know how to Manage a port program >
For short rpm DD and a larger port = shorter duration with higher .680 + lift to get ALL that air in from the Larger port with a nice compression anything over 11.5 is a +. Don't mention a solid roller. Don't you cam a engine based on head CSA, CFM, induction, and rpm intended? So runner size is kinda mute.
Area is rpm, so how much CSA is needed for 7k and the bore size used?
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Old 03-03-2019, 06:34 PM
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Why get a 420 cfm head with a 370 cfm induction? Get a 370 cfm head it's only as good as the part that sits on top (intake).
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Old 03-03-2019, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Smokey B View Post
To the guy talking about a huge port (Porters cnc programs) understand this, you've got to Know how to Manage a port program >
For short rpm DD and a larger port = shorter duration with higher .680 + lift to get ALL that air in from the Larger port with a nice compression anything over 11.5 is a +. Don't mention a solid roller. Don't you cam a engine based on head CSA, CFM, induction, and rpm intended? So runner size is kinda mute.
Area is rpm, so how much CSA is needed for 7k and the bore size used?
I get what u are saying the problem is nobody who is selling the 400 cfm claim is mentioning about the port program and how it affects the low range for us street folk. THEY ARE BANKING OFF THE CFM CLAIMS.....low end airflow is the least of most the big dollar head program concerns....wording us weird but u get what I'm saying
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Old 03-03-2019, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Smokey B View Post
Why get a 420 cfm head with a 370 cfm induction? Get a 370 cfm head it's only as good as the part that sits on top (intake).
if the op was spinning above 7000 than yes I agree. Not tryingv to start a pissing match with you, I'm not an expert I only know the basics. We don't really need to be concerned about the intake for the op to meet his goals. Virtually any aftermarket intake and a few worked stock pieces can hang in there ok to 7000
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Old 03-03-2019, 07:21 PM
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My advice on the subject is to purchase the entire top end as a system from one shop. They will understand how to make the setup work as a combination. Nobody understands what makes their particular head work well as the one producing the port program, as these guys spend a lot of time on their individual setup. My MMS 265’s for instance, Tony spent over a year designing and tweaking the ports and building the CNC program. Let that sink in for a moment...over a year. He also spent months perfecting the porting of his MSD intakes, so that they work as a system, not a crutch to one another. Tony understands driveability which is why he keeps his ports small (CSA) on his heads, at only 265cc’s yet they flow 412 cfm. That means crazy high velocity which helps cylinder fill at low lift, therefore driveability. Nothing worse for driveability than a big lazy intake port. Great for high rpm racing, but a slouch on the street. Tony also offers a package with the Brodix casting, which as Darth mentioned, is a great head.
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Old 03-03-2019, 07:51 PM
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My thing is what's considered small? You say Mamo's port is small compared to what? Is this based off of 265 cc? CSA tells the Truth not CC. 400 cfm with 260 TFS heads is small fries with a good porter: Bowls + SSR and VJ = 400 cfm with those heads. You can make any port make HP. The Correct parts for the intended use does it.

Last edited by Smokey B; 03-03-2019 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 03-03-2019, 08:05 PM
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not starting anything, but who is smokey? seems super pushy knowledgable for only being here last month.....possible dual profiles?

anyway, tony doesnt necessarily brag about is CFM, and please show other TFS 260s flowing 400....interested in seeing this.....

and his port is basically the smallest large bore LS7 port, not counting out of the box castings, talking about those who molest the castings
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Old 03-03-2019, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Smokey B View Post
My thing is what's considered small? You say Mamo's port is small compared to what? Is this based off of 265 cc? CSA tells the Truth not CC. 400 cfm with 260 TFS heads is small fries with a good porter: Bowls + SSR and VJ = 400 cfm with those heads. You can make any port make HP. The Correct parts for the intended use does it.
400 cfm with TFS 260ís is small fries with the right porter? Thatís funny. Iím NOT going to get into a head debate with you, but for comparisons sake, which you asked for, Iíd start with Mast 305ís which have a huge 294cc intake port and even at an inch of lift donít flow the amount of air that Tonyís little 265ís do. CSA does tell more than CC does, but I like dyno/track results best. Are you formally Patron?
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Old 03-03-2019, 08:21 PM
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Of course Tony has the V.2.0 out now that flows even better than mine with a bigger Ti intake valve. I’m sending mine back to him soon.
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Old 03-03-2019, 08:22 PM
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https://www.lsxmag.com/news/video-lm...le-port-heads/


Another test. There are a lot of programs not listed, by top guys not known to alot of forum folks. You said it right about resuts. Nothing unheard of from dyno or ET tests from what's been seen.... We are talking 427+ci. So now 420 cfm heads with which intake?

Not Patron. Have asked him questions on YB. Knows and lists Top notch cylinder heads guys. The Darin thread was a post he listed on YB.

General conversation found.
https://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/s....php?t=2560831

Cap this off with a ported MSD?
https://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/s....php?t=2536311

Last edited by Smokey B; 03-03-2019 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 03-03-2019, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Che70velle View Post
Of course Tony has the V.2.0 out now that flows even better than mine with a bigger Ti intake valve. Iím sending mine back to him soon.
did i get the version? i dont have titanium valves tho.....after my last mishap ef em.......but he uses hardened tipi
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Old 03-03-2019, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Smokey B View Post
https://www.lsxmag.com/news/video-lm...le-port-heads/


Another test. There are a lot of programs not listed, by top guys not known to alot of forum folks. You said it right about resuts. Nothing unheard of from dyno or ET tests from what's been seen.... We are talking 427+ci. So now 420 cfm heads with which intake?

Not Patron. Have asked him questions on YB. Knows and lists Top notch cylinder heads guys. The Darin thread was a post he listed on YB.

General conversation found.
https://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/s....php?t=2560831

Cap this off with a ported MSD?
https://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/s....php?t=2536311
i read some of that thread, not much but decided ill raise you......

since people like track results
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ncluded-2.html

how about 91 octane?
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...91-octane.html

decent size cam, but smaller than others
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1594580084

no dyno but monster size cam here
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...cam-build.html

the one dyno beat out a 305 head on that same dyno, so lets see you raise or fold, since you said 400 cfm is easy on these heads
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Smokey B View Post
Not Patron. Have asked him questions on YB. Knows and lists Top notch cylinder heads guys. The Darin thread was a post he listed on YB.
Haha, youíre really going to pretend youíre not Patron/Rowdy Yates/Lil Jon?
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by KCS View Post


Haha, youíre really going to pretend youíre not Patron/Rowdy Yates/Lil Jon?
Naw, it's his twin clone...
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:41 PM
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Not him..į
If you are talking 260 tfs heads and 400 cfm? Ask any Good porter whats needed? You will have your answer. Listed the answer though. The thing is the 305 should make more hp with a better intake and more RPM (area is hp). Non of the builds listed would make more Avg Hp than the one you said you read. So 820 with a CID intake would equal what roughly with a MSD 770fwhp pump gas under 12.0 compression? Sounds like a 454 build. As far as dyno and or track times, google z06 dyno runs or ET's with stock ported heads & better intake (milled for compression like Most of these higher Hp builds ). Seems odd that factory heads do the same numbers listed for a aftermarket head with custom work (620+rwhp and 9's for a et slip.) If the valve guides weren't a big problem the factory would have a great head. Isn't there a 620rwhp Ls7 with ported factory heads & stock intake ls7 in a Monte Carlo. Not hating but from whats said and read Mamo Heads are the golden standard for Ls7 heads for some, and i think not.
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