416 head selection
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On The Tree
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From: Houston, Tx
Originally Posted by Darth_V8r
A good rule of thumb for most (>90%) applications is for the intake valve to be about 52% of the bore. So, opening up to a 2.08 would be a good move for sure. If you can get the valve to fit. Given cathedral geometry, it might be difficult, but even a 2.05 valve will be a good move over what is likely a 2.02 in there now.
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I’ll let Darth give the serious reply as he knows his stuff.
given that, I personally would **think** that given this engine is for a truck, I would would go straight for either MMS235 or TFS 235 Then cam accordingly. Of course this would need a FAST Intake. I think this would be a basis of a great overall street engine for a car or truck.
It might be a good idea to put in pistons in that have a multi angle valve reliefs given you are decided on which heads yet
given that, I personally would **think** that given this engine is for a truck, I would would go straight for either MMS235 or TFS 235 Then cam accordingly. Of course this would need a FAST Intake. I think this would be a basis of a great overall street engine for a car or truck.
It might be a good idea to put in pistons in that have a multi angle valve reliefs given you are decided on which heads yet
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From: Houston, Tx
Originally Posted by Jimbo1367
I’ll let Darth give the serious reply as he knows his stuff.
given that, I personally would **think** that given this engine is for a truck, I would would go straight for either MMS235 or TFS 235 Then cam accordingly. Of course this would need a FAST Intake. I think this would be a basis of a great overall street engine for a car or truck.
It might be a good idea to put in pistons in that have a multi angle valve reliefs given you are decided on which heads yet
given that, I personally would **think** that given this engine is for a truck, I would would go straight for either MMS235 or TFS 235 Then cam accordingly. Of course this would need a FAST Intake. I think this would be a basis of a great overall street engine for a car or truck.
It might be a good idea to put in pistons in that have a multi angle valve reliefs given you are decided on which heads yet
Thread Starter
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From: Houston, Tx
Originally Posted by Tuskyz28
I've seen a 416ci with TFS 245s from BTR go 9s in a M6 camaro with a hydraulic roller to boot banging gears.
Darth, I just saw this post,I missed it when you replied. Good to know. I have found a set of NIB TFS245 BTR N2O exhaust powder metal guides with 70cc chambers for 3k. Would this be too big or would it work with the smaller cam for now and leave a lot of room to grow later ?
I do agree with Jimbo that the smaller 235 heads would be better for the truck, and will give you some room to grow up top, but if you're building for an eventual transplant, I think the 245 will set you up better for not having to buy heads twice. So if you're willing to make some trade offs in the short term, run the 245's and sacrifice a bit down low, compensate with a small cam, and it should still be pretty fun.
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From: Houston, Tx
Originally Posted by Darth_V8r
IMO, I think it'll work good for that motor. When you cam it, you won't want the 8-12 degree splits you tend to see. Closer to 4 degrees. Do like a 222/226 type cam. With bigger heads, use smaller cam to compensate - especially in a truck.
I do agree with Jimbo that the smaller 235 heads would be better for the truck, and will give you some room to grow up top, but if you're building for an eventual transplant, I think the 245 will set you up better for not having to buy heads twice. So if you're willing to make some trade offs in the short term, run the 245's and sacrifice a bit down low, compensate with a small cam, and it should still be pretty fun.
I do agree with Jimbo that the smaller 235 heads would be better for the truck, and will give you some room to grow up top, but if you're building for an eventual transplant, I think the 245 will set you up better for not having to buy heads twice. So if you're willing to make some trade offs in the short term, run the 245's and sacrifice a bit down low, compensate with a small cam, and it should still be pretty fun.
My thought is, if I decide to boost it later then I have lots expansion capability, and if not boost a larger camshaft to take full advantage of the heads with a compression bump. Glad to see I was thinking correctly. Thanks everyone. Engine **** to be forth coming. Short block is at the builders now.
So with that cam and keep lift in the lower sub600 range?
My thought is, if I decide to boost it later then I have lots expansion capability, and if not boost a larger camshaft to take full advantage of the heads with a compression bump. Glad to see I was thinking correctly. Thanks everyone. Engine **** to be forth coming. Short block is at the builders now.
My thought is, if I decide to boost it later then I have lots expansion capability, and if not boost a larger camshaft to take full advantage of the heads with a compression bump. Glad to see I was thinking correctly. Thanks everyone. Engine **** to be forth coming. Short block is at the builders now.
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Verdad Gallardo Yeah, I was thinking 114+3, but wanted to make sure on compression. I'd go as early as you can until limited by DCR, because that'll really help getting the truck moving. When you put it in your rcecar, it'll be a complete makeover, lol.
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From: Houston, Tx
Absolutely, with some milling to get compression up unless boost is applied . If I may ask, what spreadsheet or calculator does most use for CR/DCR calcs. I have used the Wallace racing and several others, but they all seem to give there own,slightly different, readout for the same data input.
There is an old one in here in one of the stickies in the gen3 section. I found it to be the best. I found some calculation errors, and corrected them, and it's basically my own spreadsheet at this point. I have verified with several builders when we key in the same numbers, we get the same results to two decimal places.
Thread Starter
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From: Houston, Tx
Originally Posted by Darth_V8r
There is an old one in here in one of the stickies in the gen3 section. I found it to be the best. I found some calculation errors, and corrected them, and it's basically my own spreadsheet at this point. I have verified with several builders when we key in the same numbers, we get the same results to two decimal places.
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From: Houston, Tx
UPDATE!!!!!
I have pulled the trigger with Tony and the MMS235's. I just felt they are the best fit for me and hell I've seen these heads make 650+ fwhp. I can live with that as a future performance threshold. Sometimes the over thinker gets stuck in high gear. I am also going rogue with the VVT camshaft. I have done some studying and research on the tech and believe I can select the right cam for the truck (I am hoping Tony will at least discuss the valve events I'm going to select) If it doesn't workout it's a $7-800 lesson. So the list from Tony is as follows:
MMS235- (inquiring about the TFS castings) hand finished bowl work with hollow stem 2.1 int. 1.60exh.
Johnson short travel lifters with wheel oilers( I had one fail before and chewed up my cam- $4K rebuild verses $225 insurance)
Melling oil pump worked over
11/32 pushrods length to be determined. (I will be ordering specific lengths for each valve as necessary)
LSXR102/102TB ported by Tony ( from old motor)
YT 1.7:1 rockers (from old motor)
Opening weekend has slowed the progress on the short block. **** is still forth coming.
I have pulled the trigger with Tony and the MMS235's. I just felt they are the best fit for me and hell I've seen these heads make 650+ fwhp. I can live with that as a future performance threshold. Sometimes the over thinker gets stuck in high gear. I am also going rogue with the VVT camshaft. I have done some studying and research on the tech and believe I can select the right cam for the truck (I am hoping Tony will at least discuss the valve events I'm going to select) If it doesn't workout it's a $7-800 lesson. So the list from Tony is as follows:
MMS235- (inquiring about the TFS castings) hand finished bowl work with hollow stem 2.1 int. 1.60exh.
Johnson short travel lifters with wheel oilers( I had one fail before and chewed up my cam- $4K rebuild verses $225 insurance)
Melling oil pump worked over
11/32 pushrods length to be determined. (I will be ordering specific lengths for each valve as necessary)
LSXR102/102TB ported by Tony ( from old motor)
YT 1.7:1 rockers (from old motor)
Opening weekend has slowed the progress on the short block. **** is still forth coming.
