Stroker build opinions
Banned
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,984
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lol, you spent 2 hours trying to dig up a fast NA car to try and prove your argument. Way to go, you did it! High five dude! You can have your loud, stinky, vibratey, poor drivability, horrible gas mileage, 3 speed, non interstate driving, non air conditioning having-super fast NA race car that is not a pleasure to drive everyday and...... I'll be content in my leather interior, cold ac, quiet, smooth, 20+mpg, non stinky, stock like driving manners, 3.46 geared, overdrive trans-9 second daily driver. I prefer comfort over a rowdy car that is full of quirky ****. I had that before. Why do you think all the manufacturers are going forced induction? I work for a major vehicle company, all of our vehicles are going turbo and smaller engines. Why? Because better economy and more power. Same thing with all the other manufacturers.....but since you know better....maybe you should head up the r&d department of one and come up with a more efficient and powerful NA combo.....
Thread Starter
12 Second Club
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 221
From: San Antonio
You guys are out of control. 
So, reading Tusky's cook book....it looks like most 404-427 CID builds are running around 600-620 hp at the crank. They are also running a stick shift. If you assume 15% loss through the drivetrain, that's still 500+hp at the wheels. My car has a 4L80e, so I would probably need closer to 700hp at the crank to keep up. I don't think a budget stroker build will get me there without a squirt of nitrous.
I'm sure there are NA engines making 700hp, but it's probably cheaper to just boost it.
So, reading Tusky's cook book....it looks like most 404-427 CID builds are running around 600-620 hp at the crank. They are also running a stick shift. If you assume 15% loss through the drivetrain, that's still 500+hp at the wheels. My car has a 4L80e, so I would probably need closer to 700hp at the crank to keep up. I don't think a budget stroker build will get me there without a squirt of nitrous.
I'm sure there are NA engines making 700hp, but it's probably cheaper to just boost it.
You guys are out of control.
So, reading Tusky's cook book....it looks like most 404-427 CID builds are running around 600-620 hp at the crank. They are also running a stick shift. If you assume 15% loss through the drivetrain, that's still 500+hp at the wheels. My car has a 4L80e, so I would probably need closer to 700hp at the crank to keep up. I don't think a budget stroker build will get me there without a squirt of nitrous.
I'm sure there are NA engines making 700hp, but it's probably cheaper to just boost it.
So, reading Tusky's cook book....it looks like most 404-427 CID builds are running around 600-620 hp at the crank. They are also running a stick shift. If you assume 15% loss through the drivetrain, that's still 500+hp at the wheels. My car has a 4L80e, so I would probably need closer to 700hp at the crank to keep up. I don't think a budget stroker build will get me there without a squirt of nitrous.
I'm sure there are NA engines making 700hp, but it's probably cheaper to just boost it.
As to boost being cheaper than NA power... I wrestle with this. If you are building from scratch, you really don't pay for displacement like you used to. I mean HPR 468 is in the 7K range, or was last time I checked. if you build a 5.3 out of equally quality parts, you will save some, but not like it'll drop to $900. Now on the top end, I think is where you can save with boost, because NA you gotta shell out for heads but boosted you can get by with "lesser" heads and compensate with more boost. but then you gotta buy the turbo, the tubing, oil lines, etc.
Now if you mean by cheaper the turbo builds don't break as often as NA, so your repair bill drops, I can see that.
And I can certainly appreciate the comments about driveability and fuel mileage compared with a big power NA motor.
True, but you can stall, and stay in the powerband better, plus the faster shift times. I would bet you weight being equal and crank power being equal, you would outrun a stick, despite a disadvantage on the dyno.
As to boost being cheaper than NA power... I wrestle with this. If you are building from scratch, you really don't pay for displacement like you used to. I mean HPR 468 is in the 7K range, or was last time I checked. if you build a 5.3 out of equally quality parts, you will save some, but not like it'll drop to $900. Now on the top end, I think is where you can save with boost, because NA you gotta shell out for heads but boosted you can get by with "lesser" heads and compensate with more boost. but then you gotta buy the turbo, the tubing, oil lines, etc.
Now if you mean by cheaper the turbo builds don't break as often as NA, so your repair bill drops, I can see that.
And I can certainly appreciate the comments about driveability and fuel mileage compared with a big power NA motor.
As to boost being cheaper than NA power... I wrestle with this. If you are building from scratch, you really don't pay for displacement like you used to. I mean HPR 468 is in the 7K range, or was last time I checked. if you build a 5.3 out of equally quality parts, you will save some, but not like it'll drop to $900. Now on the top end, I think is where you can save with boost, because NA you gotta shell out for heads but boosted you can get by with "lesser" heads and compensate with more boost. but then you gotta buy the turbo, the tubing, oil lines, etc.
Now if you mean by cheaper the turbo builds don't break as often as NA, so your repair bill drops, I can see that.
And I can certainly appreciate the comments about driveability and fuel mileage compared with a big power NA motor.
I agree....either way can get costly. But I guess my favorite thing about boost is, you can just turn it up to get more power. Now thats considering your turbo, fuel system and drivetrain can support the extra power. But my most unfavorite thing is, running a number......you know you are gonna want more.....its much more work, $$$ and effort to do it with an NA setup. Too many times have I seen someone with a nice build who always wants to go faster, so he's constantly swapping cams, better heads, intake, more porting, more cubic inches.....Most of us cant jsut go all out from the get go with a na setup, so we usually end up wasting lots of money in the pursuit of more speed. Anyone relate?
So after building a few NA vehicles, I acquired my gto.....I tried to start off with running it NA....while at the track, (heads/cam//intake etc) i got waxed by a v6 turbo trans am......Thats all it took. I always wanted to go turbo but I was scared of the unknown.....so I kept putting it off. But after that night, I went home, started researching and reading. Mostly on this site actually....I ended up ordering A 7875 on3 turbo....then started collecting parts. I built my first kit, very successfully for the most part (normal trial and error junk) and now i'm building them for other people. I really like the driveability and comfort and mileage I have. Cruising around its like a stock car. My wife or my 16 year old kid can get in the car and drive it and I dont have to give any "special instructions" on how to drive it. Well, I say that, I just have to tell them dont floor it under 70mph.lol
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Spanks, , you were lucky if you got an LS3 block ready to use, I bought a new one from summit and it’s bores looked really shadowy so I went .005 over, same thing with the used block I built for my current engine, .005 over with torque plates to get the bores right. The LS9 block can be used out of the box because they torque plate hone them for 4.065, not sure about any others.
Banned
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 682
lol, you spent 2 hours trying to dig up a fast NA car to try and prove your argument. Way to go, you did it! High five dude! You can have your loud, stinky, vibratey, poor drivability, horrible gas mileage, 3 speed, non interstate driving, non air conditioning having-super fast NA race car that is not a pleasure to drive everyday and...... I'll be content in my leather interior, cold ac, quiet, smooth, 20+mpg, non stinky, stock like driving manners, 3.46 geared, overdrive trans-9 second daily driver. I prefer comfort over a rowdy car that is full of quirky ****. I had that before. Why do you think all the manufacturers are going forced induction? I work for a major vehicle company, all of our vehicles are going turbo and smaller engines. Why? Because better economy and more power. Same thing with all the other manufacturers.....but since you know better....maybe you should head up the r&d department of one and come up with a more efficient and powerful NA combo.....
thread title Reads something along the lines of NA not the BS your talking. Go find a thread which you can talk all the Turbo 💩 you'd like. U can't cause there few and far apart.
I'm so sick of the Bitchie Turbo guys invading NA space.
Banned
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 682
You guys are out of control.
So, reading Tusky's cook book....it looks like most 404-427 CID builds are running around 600-620 hp at the crank. They are also running a stick shift. If you assume 15% loss through the drivetrain, that's still 500+hp at the wheels. My car has a 4L80e, so I would probably need closer to 700hp at the crank to keep up. I don't think a budget stroker build will get me there without a squirt of nitrous.
I'm sure there are NA engines making 700hp, but it's probably cheaper to just boost it.
So, reading Tusky's cook book....it looks like most 404-427 CID builds are running around 600-620 hp at the crank. They are also running a stick shift. If you assume 15% loss through the drivetrain, that's still 500+hp at the wheels. My car has a 4L80e, so I would probably need closer to 700hp at the crank to keep up. I don't think a budget stroker build will get me there without a squirt of nitrous.
I'm sure there are NA engines making 700hp, but it's probably cheaper to just boost it.
As we All Know ...700's old new. BTW add up the cost and Replace the Heads with Factory heads ported by None other than Chris Frank ask 4 the stage 1 package... Same Hp
https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-te...ild-with-ffre/
Roll me one up on the BS.
I agree....either way can get costly. But I guess my favorite thing about boost is, you can just turn it up to get more power. Now thats considering your turbo, fuel system and drivetrain can support the extra power. But my most unfavorite thing is, running a number......you know you are gonna want more.....its much more work, $$$ and effort to do it with an NA setup. Too many times have I seen someone with a nice build who always wants to go faster, so he's constantly swapping cams, better heads, intake, more porting, more cubic inches.....Most of us cant jsut go all out from the get go with a na setup, so we usually end up wasting lots of money in the pursuit of more speed. Anyone relate?
So after building a few NA vehicles, I acquired my gto.....I tried to start off with running it NA....while at the track, (heads/cam//intake etc) i got waxed by a v6 turbo trans am......Thats all it took. I always wanted to go turbo but I was scared of the unknown.....so I kept putting it off. But after that night, I went home, started researching and reading. Mostly on this site actually....I ended up ordering A 7875 on3 turbo....then started collecting parts. I built my first kit, very successfully for the most part (normal trial and error junk) and now i'm building them for other people. I really like the driveability and comfort and mileage I have. Cruising around its like a stock car. My wife or my 16 year old kid can get in the car and drive it and I dont have to give any "special instructions" on how to drive it. Well, I say that, I just have to tell them dont floor it under 70mph.lol
So after building a few NA vehicles, I acquired my gto.....I tried to start off with running it NA....while at the track, (heads/cam//intake etc) i got waxed by a v6 turbo trans am......Thats all it took. I always wanted to go turbo but I was scared of the unknown.....so I kept putting it off. But after that night, I went home, started researching and reading. Mostly on this site actually....I ended up ordering A 7875 on3 turbo....then started collecting parts. I built my first kit, very successfully for the most part (normal trial and error junk) and now i'm building them for other people. I really like the driveability and comfort and mileage I have. Cruising around its like a stock car. My wife or my 16 year old kid can get in the car and drive it and I dont have to give any "special instructions" on how to drive it. Well, I say that, I just have to tell them dont floor it under 70mph.lol
Part of me thinks I'd spend the least amount of money if I just went ahead and did a gear driven procharged proline, because then I don't spend all the money in between to get there lol. Either way, you guys who go boost do make some very valid points.
Banned
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 682
NA judge I present my case.
Darth Stated 🤣
Part of me thinks I'd spend the least amount of money if I just went ahead and did a gear driven procharged proline, because then I don't spend all the money in between to get there lol. Either way, you guys who go boost do make some very valid points
🤣😂
Darth Stated 🤣
Part of me thinks I'd spend the least amount of money if I just went ahead and did a gear driven procharged proline, because then I don't spend all the money in between to get there lol. Either way, you guys who go boost do make some very valid points
🤣😂
I’m the biggest N/A fan here, trust me, but I can see me with a TVS2650 one day in place of my MSD. Would make an easy 1k wheel and get 20+ mpg. Love it or hate it, 1k wheel is 1k wheel. Along with 800-900 torques would be fun.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 387
Likes: 171
I've had both. Both have advantages and disadvantages.
No wrong way to have fun. It just comes down to what you want the car for. The majority of road racers would say a big HP NA build is the way to go for various reasons. Drag race guys with old school Big Blocks love some Roots blowers. Smaller displacement and under hood unit guys like the snail units. PD blowers sort of fall in between somewhere plus the added weight on the nose isn't a help.
Build your car for what you plan to do with it. In warmer climates certain engines end up losing more power than others with the heat soak. There are ways to combat it.
It's all in good fun. I kinda like my snarly, smelly, rowdy high compression stroker. I also loved my silky smooth blown LS3. Variety is the spice of life.
Like the poster above me. A big ole PD on top of my engine would make killer power and is tempting but that's not what I built the car for. Anyone who is talking price with any type of build, be it a boost motor or NA build, should realize it's just money down the toilet in the long run. But it sure is fun!
No wrong way to have fun. It just comes down to what you want the car for. The majority of road racers would say a big HP NA build is the way to go for various reasons. Drag race guys with old school Big Blocks love some Roots blowers. Smaller displacement and under hood unit guys like the snail units. PD blowers sort of fall in between somewhere plus the added weight on the nose isn't a help.
Build your car for what you plan to do with it. In warmer climates certain engines end up losing more power than others with the heat soak. There are ways to combat it.
It's all in good fun. I kinda like my snarly, smelly, rowdy high compression stroker. I also loved my silky smooth blown LS3. Variety is the spice of life.
Like the poster above me. A big ole PD on top of my engine would make killer power and is tempting but that's not what I built the car for. Anyone who is talking price with any type of build, be it a boost motor or NA build, should realize it's just money down the toilet in the long run. But it sure is fun!
Last edited by 440_Stroker; Apr 1, 2021 at 10:10 PM.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 8,032
Likes: 661
That would be crazy fun. Do you think the GMPP 376 15B is built enough to handle that much pwr?