Which 15W40 for built LSX?
Regardless of a custom build motor or a SBE with 150k miles....you mostly see people spinning bearings with thinner weigh oils. Rarely if ever hear of anyone spinning a bearing with the "dreaded Rotella 15w40".
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 267
Likes: 171
I know of quite a few engines that lost bearings to Rotella and other HDEOs. The one I witnessed personally was a 434ci SBC turning 8000 rpm and the Rotella in the sump looked like a bubble bath. Excessive aeration lead to bearing cavitation. The vast majority of issues with API CJ-4 and CK-4 HDEOs in gas engines have been valvetrain failures though.
A lot of people like Rotella because it's dirt cheap, and they will perform whatever mental gymnastics necessary to make it out like god's gift to engines to make themselves feel better about spending less. There's a reason it's cheap, which I laid out in post #38. They formulate to a price point rather than a performance point, something I never care to do. They aim for the cheapest material that'll meet bare minimum standards. The Noack volatility of Rotella T4 15W-40 is 12% which is pathetic for a 40 grade. The HTHS is on the lower side relative to KV100. It barely passes Teost 33c test for carbon deposits. It foamed to 38 ml in anti-foam testing, a test in which I consider anything more than 10 ml to be a complete failure. There's just nothing spectacular about it. It's not an ideal oil for a gas engine and it never will be. I will never understand why people will shell out thousands for an engine and power adders and throw a fit over the thought of spending an extra $20 on oil to protect it properly.
A lot of people like Rotella because it's dirt cheap, and they will perform whatever mental gymnastics necessary to make it out like god's gift to engines to make themselves feel better about spending less. There's a reason it's cheap, which I laid out in post #38. They formulate to a price point rather than a performance point, something I never care to do. They aim for the cheapest material that'll meet bare minimum standards. The Noack volatility of Rotella T4 15W-40 is 12% which is pathetic for a 40 grade. The HTHS is on the lower side relative to KV100. It barely passes Teost 33c test for carbon deposits. It foamed to 38 ml in anti-foam testing, a test in which I consider anything more than 10 ml to be a complete failure. There's just nothing spectacular about it. It's not an ideal oil for a gas engine and it never will be. I will never understand why people will shell out thousands for an engine and power adders and throw a fit over the thought of spending an extra $20 on oil to protect it properly.
Would love to get background on these bearing failures with the 15w40. I don't recall every seeing it posted on here in over a decade. It's always someone running Mobil 1 5w30 etc.
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 52
Likes: 26
I know of quite a few engines that lost bearings to Rotella and other HDEOs. The one I witnessed personally was a 434ci SBC turning 8000 rpm and the Rotella in the sump looked like a bubble bath. Excessive aeration lead to bearing cavitation. The vast majority of issues with API CJ-4 and CK-4 HDEOs in gas engines have been valvetrain failures though.
A lot of people like Rotella because it's dirt cheap, and they will perform whatever mental gymnastics necessary to make it out like god's gift to engines to make themselves feel better about spending less. There's a reason it's cheap, which I laid out in post #38. They formulate to a price point rather than a performance point, something I never care to do. They aim for the cheapest material that'll meet bare minimum standards. The Noack volatility of Rotella T4 15W-40 is 12% which is pathetic for a 40 grade. The HTHS is on the lower side relative to KV100. It barely passes Teost 33c test for carbon deposits. It foamed to 38 ml in anti-foam testing, a test in which I consider anything more than 10 ml to be a complete failure. There's just nothing spectacular about it. It's not an ideal oil for a gas engine and it never will be. I will never understand why people will shell out thousands for an engine and power adders and throw a fit over the thought of spending an extra $20 on oil to protect it properly.
A lot of people like Rotella because it's dirt cheap, and they will perform whatever mental gymnastics necessary to make it out like god's gift to engines to make themselves feel better about spending less. There's a reason it's cheap, which I laid out in post #38. They formulate to a price point rather than a performance point, something I never care to do. They aim for the cheapest material that'll meet bare minimum standards. The Noack volatility of Rotella T4 15W-40 is 12% which is pathetic for a 40 grade. The HTHS is on the lower side relative to KV100. It barely passes Teost 33c test for carbon deposits. It foamed to 38 ml in anti-foam testing, a test in which I consider anything more than 10 ml to be a complete failure. There's just nothing spectacular about it. It's not an ideal oil for a gas engine and it never will be. I will never understand why people will shell out thousands for an engine and power adders and throw a fit over the thought of spending an extra $20 on oil to protect it properly.
TECH Addict
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 2,513
Likes: 480
From: PDX-OR-USA
Oil threads..Just spending a lot of time at the track with lots of cars and teams around all with different opinions.
If the oil your running protects your engine, and maintains healthy pressure.. Mission complete.
I run premium synthetics because I like the way the engine behaves .. A full synthetic seems to run
quieter ,, I've put a couple brands in where instantly the lifter/follower noise goes sky high.. Noise = more friction.
Hell the way I treat an engine probably is the bigger impact than anyting..
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 267
Likes: 171
There's no direct correlation between engine noise and wear or friction. It's more a matter of which oils are better at suppressing the sound that's always there. A lot of racing oils can result in a bit of engine noise (less noise dampening) but have low wear and friction.
On the other hand, Lucas Oil Stabilizer is an olefin coplymer (with no beneficial additives) which is a base material for sound deadening polymers. It can certainly quiet down a noisy engine, as many have reported, but wear and friction both increase. The part is still eating itself, you just can't hear it anymore. That's why used car scam dealers love the stuff. A good way to silence a rod knock so someone will buy it at a premium. Then they go change their oil with Mobil 1 (or whatever brand), the rod knock starts singing again, and they blame the oil brand or whatever shop did the oil change.
Each case was attributed to excessive aeration in applications well outside the oil's intended use. It's unlikely it was posted here as these were with teams and builders who ventured into more demanding applications using the same HDEOs, had failures, switched oils, failures stopped, and they moved on.
There's no direct correlation between engine noise and wear or friction. It's more a matter of which oils are better at suppressing the sound that's always there. A lot of racing oils can result in a bit of engine noise (less noise dampening) but have low wear and friction.
There's no direct correlation between engine noise and wear or friction. It's more a matter of which oils are better at suppressing the sound that's always there. A lot of racing oils can result in a bit of engine noise (less noise dampening) but have low wear and friction.
On the other hand, Lucas Oil Stabilizer is an olefin coplymer (with no beneficial additives) which is a base material for sound deadening polymers. It can certainly quiet down a noisy engine, as many have reported, but wear and friction both increase. The part is still eating itself, you just can't hear it anymore. That's why used car scam dealers love the stuff. A good way to silence a rod knock so someone will buy it at a premium. Then they go change their oil with Mobil 1 (or whatever brand), the rod knock starts singing again, and they blame the oil brand or whatever shop did the oil change.
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On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 184
Likes: 66
From: HTown, Texas
I know of quite a few engines that lost bearings to Rotella and other HDEOs. The one I witnessed personally was a 434ci SBC turning 8000 rpm and the Rotella in the sump looked like a bubble bath. Excessive aeration lead to bearing cavitation. The vast majority of issues with API CJ-4 and CK-4 HDEOs in gas engines have been valvetrain failures though.
A lot of people like Rotella because it's dirt cheap, and they will perform whatever mental gymnastics necessary to make it out like god's gift to engines to make themselves feel better about spending less. There's a reason it's cheap, which I laid out in post #38. They formulate to a price point rather than a performance point, something I never care to do. They aim for the cheapest material that'll meet bare minimum standards. The Noack volatility of Rotella T4 15W-40 is 12% which is pathetic for a 40 grade. The HTHS is on the lower side relative to KV100. It barely passes Teost 33c test for carbon deposits. It foamed to 38 ml in anti-foam testing, a test in which I consider anything more than 10 ml to be a complete failure. There's just nothing spectacular about it. It's not an ideal oil for a gas engine and it never will be. I will never understand why people will shell out thousands for an engine and power adders and throw a fit over the thought of spending an extra $20 on oil to protect it properly.
A lot of people like Rotella because it's dirt cheap, and they will perform whatever mental gymnastics necessary to make it out like god's gift to engines to make themselves feel better about spending less. There's a reason it's cheap, which I laid out in post #38. They formulate to a price point rather than a performance point, something I never care to do. They aim for the cheapest material that'll meet bare minimum standards. The Noack volatility of Rotella T4 15W-40 is 12% which is pathetic for a 40 grade. The HTHS is on the lower side relative to KV100. It barely passes Teost 33c test for carbon deposits. It foamed to 38 ml in anti-foam testing, a test in which I consider anything more than 10 ml to be a complete failure. There's just nothing spectacular about it. It's not an ideal oil for a gas engine and it never will be. I will never understand why people will shell out thousands for an engine and power adders and throw a fit over the thought of spending an extra $20 on oil to protect it properly.
Care to share any do's or don't for oils for GDI engines?
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 267
Likes: 171
Since it contains no anti-wear additives (or any other beneficial additives), it dilutes the additives in your oil. Let's say your oil has 800 ppm ZDDP and you replace 20% with Lucas Oil Stabilizer per their recommended dosage. Your ZDDP anti-wear gets diluted from 800 ppm down to 640 ppm. That's never a good thing.
Typical oils for GDI engines will have <1500 ppm calcium and no sodium.
Staging Lane
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 52
Likes: 26
Each case was attributed to excessive aeration in applications well outside the oil's intended use. It's unlikely it was posted here as these were with teams and builders who ventured into more demanding applications using the same HDEOs, had failures, switched oils, failures stopped, and they moved on.
I would need a lot more information on it such as the max rpm, power adders, bearing clearances, oil capacity and cooling, fuel choice, climate, etc...
There's no direct correlation between engine noise and wear or friction. It's more a matter of which oils are better at suppressing the sound that's always there. A lot of racing oils can result in a bit of engine noise (less noise dampening) but have low wear and friction.
On the other hand, Lucas Oil Stabilizer is an olefin coplymer (with no beneficial additives) which is a base material for sound deadening polymers. It can certainly quiet down a noisy engine, as many have reported, but wear and friction both increase. The part is still eating itself, you just can't hear it anymore. That's why used car scam dealers love the stuff. A good way to silence a rod knock so someone will buy it at a premium. Then they go change their oil with Mobil 1 (or whatever brand), the rod knock starts singing again, and they blame the oil brand or whatever shop did the oil change.
I would need a lot more information on it such as the max rpm, power adders, bearing clearances, oil capacity and cooling, fuel choice, climate, etc...
There's no direct correlation between engine noise and wear or friction. It's more a matter of which oils are better at suppressing the sound that's always there. A lot of racing oils can result in a bit of engine noise (less noise dampening) but have low wear and friction.
On the other hand, Lucas Oil Stabilizer is an olefin coplymer (with no beneficial additives) which is a base material for sound deadening polymers. It can certainly quiet down a noisy engine, as many have reported, but wear and friction both increase. The part is still eating itself, you just can't hear it anymore. That's why used car scam dealers love the stuff. A good way to silence a rod knock so someone will buy it at a premium. Then they go change their oil with Mobil 1 (or whatever brand), the rod knock starts singing again, and they blame the oil brand or whatever shop did the oil change.
Use the car for mostly aggressive street driving, and some occasional road track, autocross duty. Car is a typical NA HCI setup making around 575 wheel w/ no power adders. Heads are fixed but worried about the titanium rod coating wearing off prematurely and sending the motor to heaven so want to prolong their life if that's even possible with any oil? Thank You Sir.
TECH Addict
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,178
Likes: 627
From: Florida
Ive been using lucas oil stabilizer as assembly lube for a long time. it sticks to everything really well and stays in place. should i look for something new?
after some previous threads i stopped using rotella and switched to walmart full synthetic 10-30 in everything, except my ls7 gets driven ls30.
after some previous threads i stopped using rotella and switched to walmart full synthetic 10-30 in everything, except my ls7 gets driven ls30.
Last edited by TrendSetter; Dec 8, 2021 at 02:17 PM. Reason: spelling
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 22,298
Likes: 3,619
From: Central Cal.
After reading Poly's comments on it, I would look for whatever the Lucas product IS NOT- Anti-wear additives, ZDDP(if no converters), or any additive product/package that actually helps the complete oil package rather than dilute "the good stuff".
Last edited by G Atsma; Dec 9, 2021 at 04:44 PM.
Launching!
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 267
Likes: 171
Stock bottom end LS7, 7k max rpm, stock bearing clearances, 10.5 quart oil capacity and stock Z06 coolers; 180* normal oil temp & 240*-280* road track oil temperatures, 93 octane, live near Chicago so climate I drive in would be anywhere from 90* and humid to 35*
Use the car for mostly aggressive street driving, and some occasional road track, autocross duty. Car is a typical NA HCI setup making around 575 wheel w/ no power adders. Heads are fixed but worried about the titanium rod coating wearing off prematurely and sending the motor to heaven so want to prolong their life if that's even possible with any oil? Thank You Sir.
Use the car for mostly aggressive street driving, and some occasional road track, autocross duty. Car is a typical NA HCI setup making around 575 wheel w/ no power adders. Heads are fixed but worried about the titanium rod coating wearing off prematurely and sending the motor to heaven so want to prolong their life if that's even possible with any oil? Thank You Sir.
Mobil 1 FS X2 5W-40
Valvoline Euro 5W-40
A boutique oil would be more ideal given those temperatures and use, but it depends on how much you want to spend. High Performance Lubricants is near you in Manteno, IL and they have a pretty stout 5W-40 PCMO with a 4.2 cP HTHS and <8% Noack which would take the temperatures really well. Plus, it could go 15,000 miles or 2 years without really breaking a sweat, even with severe use.
Ive been using lucas oil stabilizer as assembly lube for a long time. it sticks to everything really well and stays in place. should i look for something new?
after some previous threads i stopped using rotella and switched to walmart full synthetic 10-30 in everything, except my ls7 gets driven ls30.
after some previous threads i stopped using rotella and switched to walmart full synthetic 10-30 in everything, except my ls7 gets driven ls30.
Assembly gels and greases are essentially an anti-wear and rust prevention additive package blended in a group I base oil for maximum additive solubility and response and then bonded with a thickener to ensure it holds its place much like roller bearing grease. For those first few seconds of initial startup, that's lubricating the engine until the oil gets sufficient flow. LOS has no anti-wear additives and isn't even a base oil. It's a polymer, a liquid rubber. It's about the furthest thing from an ideal assembly lube.
TECH Addict
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,178
Likes: 627
From: Florida
its been my go to for a long time, but it sounds like its time to ditch it and order up something else. im glad i got lucky and never had any failures from it.
thanks for the info, its very valuable.
thanks for the info, its very valuable.
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 22,298
Likes: 3,619
From: Central Cal.
Poly, is the Lucas 80w-140 gear oil OK to use in a rear end or is it more mediocrity in a bottle?
Lot of folks I worked with, swore by Lucas products for shoring up blown head gaskets, band aiding rod knock & stopping poorly maintained transmissions from slipping. They'd ended up stranded and bumming rides to work after their car or truck imploded with a massive repair bill. Then they swore at Lucas.
I strive to avoid just about anything with their name on it.
Lot of folks I worked with, swore by Lucas products for shoring up blown head gaskets, band aiding rod knock & stopping poorly maintained transmissions from slipping. They'd ended up stranded and bumming rides to work after their car or truck imploded with a massive repair bill. Then they swore at Lucas.
I strive to avoid just about anything with their name on it.
https://www.lucasoilcenter.com/shop/...-oil-additive/NOT DESIGNED FOR PASSENGER CAR USE
Not recommended for use in passenger cars requiring API SG, SJ, SL, SM, and post 1994 vehicles. May cause damage to catalytic converters. For these engines try Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer....or not...
Not recommended for use in passenger cars requiring API SG, SJ, SL, SM, and post 1994 vehicles. May cause damage to catalytic converters. For these engines try Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer....or not...