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I already talked to someone locally that can re-sleeve my LS1. Based on the price, I think it was for dry sleeves. Of course, I'll confirm everything before I take the LS1 apart. For now, I need to finish building the LMG I have been milking.
I'd be VERY CAREFUL!
About 90% of LS1 dry sleeve big bore attempts end in tears & disaster after a couple of cans of Bars Leak.
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; 05-23-2022 at 08:28 PM.
I read somewhere that the sleeves on an LS1 were cast in and the issue was the casting support around the sleeves was too thin. Either sell or hang onto your LS1 block and look for a better foundation to support your power goals.
I'd do a 434... 4" stroke with a 4.155" bore with an LSX, Darton Sleeved, or Dart block (for about the same price as an LS7 you'll have a nicer block). And I'd run a 4" stroke over 4.125" or larger since I still value rod angle a bit more than others.
Going out to 4.185 really sort of pushes the edge for refreshing the block. 4.155 gives you a rebuild or two at least. And the 434 still is a good amount of cubes.
If you want to go bigger, someone like HPR has the 468 with a custom rod/crank setup to get the 4.25" to work pretty well in a Darton re-sleeved block. But you'd have to go to someone who has really designed/engineered that to work, like Erik @ HPR.
I'd do a 434... 4" stroke with a 4.155" bore with an LSX, Darton Sleeved, or Dart block (for about the same price as an LS7 you'll have a nicer block). And I'd run a 4" stroke over 4.125" or larger since I still value rod angle a bit more than others.
Going out to 4.185 really sort of pushes the edge for refreshing the block. 4.155 gives you a rebuild or two at least. And the 434 still is a good amount of cubes.
If you want to go bigger, someone like HPR has the 468 with a custom rod/crank setup to get the 4.25" to work pretty well in a Darton re-sleeved block. But you'd have to go to someone who has really designed/engineered that to work, like Erik @ HPR.
The good Dart Iron block goes to
.220 if it's a good block and no core shift.
I am redoing a 454 now with a 4.125 stroke and Darton sleeves 5.80 inches long. Any resleeving of an aluminum LS2/LS3 will require longer sleeves (stock they are like 5.50 inches - the LS7 already has them 5.85). What I have learned is you need custom pistons for that long stroke (above 4 inches) that will have a different taper rate and have the ring moved up .050 to promote anti-piston rock as the bottom the piston sticks out the bore too much resulting in piston rock. If you do not do the piston mod - it will work fine for a while and then the piston rock will take over and you will start burning a lot of oil - but in a controlled 2 stroke motor kind of way. The second piston ring which is also an oil control ring will give out. Furthermore, with the piston rock it will cause the bore to go out of round over time. I further agree with the guys above on bore size as once you get above 4.185 it is custom piston work which can take a long time. I now have a 4.190 bore so I can attest to that.
Update: I talked to the local machine shop again. They won't go more than .010" over bore on an LS1. They can re-sleeve it, but it would only be a stock-sized dry sleeve. They also called Darton, and were told that the wet sleeves for any LS motor are no longer available. They do have dry sleeves for the LS3 blocks that can go about .030" over. Soooooo, I'm either looking for another block, or a turbo kit. I already live in a desert. I really don't need to add more heat under the hood. That's why I wanted to build a stroker.
I remember Steve saying that the wet sleeve deal was done a couple years back. I never trusted the wet sleeve deal much anyway. A lot of guys had a lot of problems. As suggested, go after a dry sleeved block. Great foundation for cubes.
Oversized radiator. 4- corner steam line kit. Run all four lines to a surge tank T-ed into your lower radiator hose. Keep the surge tank half empty. I stayed under 195 consistently with that setup, even when ambient was 115-120. Hood with heat extractors helps IF THEY ARE FUNCTIONAL AND NOT DECORATIVE.
Oversized radiator. 4- corner steam line kit. Run all four lines to a surge tank T-ed into your lower radiator hose. Keep the surge tank half empty. I stayed under 195 consistently with that setup, even when ambient was 115-120. Hood with heat extractors helps IF THEY ARE FUNCTIONAL AND NOT DECORATIVE.
was a jokie joke & trying to help with the not going with da turbo theme and the desert heat...
No excuse if you can't find a block... they sell sleeved blocks ready for assembly.
I know TSP sells built, sleeved blocks, but they cost more than my car. I'm looking for a damaged-but-repairable block that I can build for far less. I heard that Darton has some dry sleeves that will take the LS3 out to a 4.125" bore. I was hoping for a larger bore, but that might be all I can get.
I know TSP sells built, sleeved blocks, but they cost more than my car. I'm looking for a damaged-but-repairable block that I can build for far less. I heard that Darton has some dry sleeves that will take the LS3 out to a 4.125" bore. I was hoping for a larger bore, but that might be all I can get.
Labor is pricey for this process. Oem sleeves have to be cut out of block with a boring bar, because they aren’t pressed in. Oem sleeves are cast in place. Then the block (the aluminum liners around the iron sleeves) has to be machined out to accept the larger sleeves. I don’t see it being any cheaper going with a 4.125” max sleeve, than going with a 4.2” max bore sleeve. Sleeve prices are prolly the same, as would be labor…unless I’m terribly wrong. You don’t want just anyone attempting this process. There’s 4 or 5 shops that I’m aware of that do this with the correct CNC machines. Even a hurt block is going to run $400-$600, then the $2400-$2600ish for correct sleeve installation.
There’s a RED sleeved block in the classifieds that’s less than 2 hours from me, for $2500 and he might take less? It will go out to 4.2 if your interested, but will clean up at 4.160”…
Steve said he No longer does wet sleeves. Besides that Darton doesn't even sell the kit anymore.
That's too bad. Yes, they were pricey. I suspect the availability of the LS7 block (inexpensive in comparison, and I'm not gonna get into the advantages of one over the other) influenced their decision(s). That means 2 of the best options for many years, the Darton wet sleeves AND the ERL block, are now unavailable. It's been quite a few years since ERL stopped making their blocks, and now Darton.
Here are some photos of my 455 CID LS ERL motor being done - 4.190 x 4.125. Was 4.185 bore but had issues as I mentioned above. New pistons reflect a redesign in the skirt on taper etc. and the ring pack and spacing is different. The piston is also now 40 grams lighter was 494 grams now 454 grams. Same 12 to 1 compression and deep pockets for valve clearance.
ERL did really nice work. Looks like your motor will be a beast. However, imho, pistons with such little skirt area are bound to rock. That said, the Diamond pistons in my LS7 are no shining star in that department, either. Its not just Diamond, either. There isn't much any piston manufacturer can do with the deck height being what it is, combined with a 4.00", or longer stroke. But hey, we know when we build them it's not going to be installed in the family sedan, and go for 200,000 miles. It's not your Grandpa's 454, with 275hp!!! That is one place that favors the original 427 big block, and that's the 3.75" stroke. Oh well. I know my pockets aren't deep enough to do it, but I know there are people out there that could do this. "This" being a C5/C6/4th & 5th gen Camaro/4th gen Firebird with the ZL1 big block in place. I've never seen one, especially a C5 or C6, though there are probably a few out there.........Somewhere..........
You are right Grinder11 as I told Last1 there, next time I might consider a tall deck (9.75) with a 6.30 inch sleeve and the 4.125 or 4.25 inch stroke is less of a big deal. The issue on a C6 Corvette is you need shorter motor mounts (but not too short) and then you need to raise the body with a shim to get the tall deck to clear the hood/cowl area where the wipers are.
That's too bad. Yes, they were pricey. I suspect the availability of the LS7 block (inexpensive in comparison, and I'm not gonna get into the advantages of one over the other) influenced their decision(s). That means 2 of the best options for many years, the Darton wet sleeves AND the ERL block, are now unavailable. It's been quite a few years since ERL stopped making their blocks, and now Darton.
I'm with you but there's a reason the wet sleeve has stopped being sold...
Labor is pricey for this process. Oem sleeves have to be cut out of block with a boring bar, because they aren’t pressed in. Oem sleeves are cast in place. Then the block (the aluminum liners around the iron sleeves) has to be machined out to accept the larger sleeves. I don’t see it being any cheaper going with a 4.125” max sleeve, than going with a 4.2” max bore sleeve. Sleeve prices are prolly the same, as would be labor…unless I’m terribly wrong. You don’t want just anyone attempting this process. There’s 4 or 5 shops that I’m aware of that do this with the correct CNC machines. Even a hurt block is going to run $400-$600, then the $2400-$2600ish for correct sleeve installation.
There’s a RED sleeved block in the classifieds that’s less than 2 hours from me, for $2500 and he might take less? It will go out to 4.2 if your interested, but will clean up at 4.160”…
I don't think you can go bigger than a 4.125" bore with any block right now. That's the biggest bore I was told that could be done. That was with the 6.2L block. The 6.0 and 5.3 blocks would have smaller max bores. Basically, you can only get OEM-sized dry sleeves right now. Supposedly, Darton has a dry sleeve for the 6.2L that can go out to 4.125". At least, that's what I was told by the machine shop that talked to Darton.
I found some 6.0L and 6.2L blocks for $200 in Austin. I don't know how bad the damage is, but I was going to go look when I get time. It costs $200 per cylinder for dry sleeves. So, about $1,800.00 for a block, potentially with a 4.125" bore. That's way cheaper than any other option out there. I haven't even seen an LS7 block for sale in years.
05-01-2022, 04:49 PM
I already live in a desert. I really don't need to add more heat under the hood. That's why I wanted to build a stroker. 
