Yet another cam choice thread but with a twist (updated)
Ideally I'd like to run 9s. But for now, I'd like to keep it to 11s- gotta learn to crawl before you can walk.
The more I look into this, the less I want to actually do the stroker build. For the money i'd spend pulling the engine apart to do a stroker build I could add a mild single turbo setup and do a boost by gear tune- and dual tune it at that. I can have a 4-6 psi "street tune" and a higher 8-10)psi "race tune" for when I'm at the track, etc. I think what I really want is to be faster than anything I'd realistically come across on the average drive to work- plenty of v8 challengers, mustangs, and camaros around here, and I think realistically a C/I LS3 would be enough to do that, given the utter lack of weight in the car.
The more I look into this, the less I want to actually do the stroker build. For the money i'd spend pulling the engine apart to do a stroker build I could add a mild single turbo setup and do a boost by gear tune- and dual tune it at that. I can have a 4-6 psi "street tune" and a higher 8-10)psi "race tune" for when I'm at the track, etc. I think what I really want is to be faster than anything I'd realistically come across on the average drive to work- plenty of v8 challengers, mustangs, and camaros around here, and I think realistically a C/I LS3 would be enough to do that, given the utter lack of weight in the car.
Build it for the street, and something else for the track. Or take it to test and tune nights and have one hail mary pass before they throw you out to see how fast you can send it.
If you cage the miata it'll be terribly unsafe to drive on the street without a helmet. If it truly will come in at 2700 pounds you're also adding so much weight you're approaching what my swapped rx7 weighs, and my car is a full trim street car at ~2840 pounds. Now you're talking about turbo kit also...just keeps piling on. There will be zo6 corvettes with ls7's almost as light as your miata lol, but they can fit an appropriately sized tire for the power.
Try to keep it around 2500 pounds, make 450whp out of the ls3 with a simple combo and learn to drive the car. I promise you the car will be more fun. You can always spray the ls3 as a cheap test to see if you want 600+whp. 450whp at 2500 pounds will take you deep 10's at ~130mph.
Lastly, with a turbo you won't be able to package a suitable cooling system for a true street car that can handle stop and go traffic in 100*+ weather with AC running. Yes you could drive it on the street, but you'll have to constantly be careful not to get it hot.
If you cage the miata it'll be terribly unsafe to drive on the street without a helmet. If it truly will come in at 2700 pounds you're also adding so much weight you're approaching what my swapped rx7 weighs, and my car is a full trim street car at ~2840 pounds. Now you're talking about turbo kit also...just keeps piling on. There will be zo6 corvettes with ls7's almost as light as your miata lol, but they can fit an appropriately sized tire for the power.
Try to keep it around 2500 pounds, make 450whp out of the ls3 with a simple combo and learn to drive the car. I promise you the car will be more fun. You can always spray the ls3 as a cheap test to see if you want 600+whp. 450whp at 2500 pounds will take you deep 10's at ~130mph.
Lastly, with a turbo you won't be able to package a suitable cooling system for a true street car that can handle stop and go traffic in 100*+ weather with AC running. Yes you could drive it on the street, but you'll have to constantly be careful not to get it hot.
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OP,
We like the direction this is going. We've gone from max effort baddest LS-Swapped Miata out there to a stockish 6.2. Gobs of power and torque aren't needed for a light car to make it fast or a blast to drive. We like the recipe you're after now. @68Formula and @DualQuadDave mentioned two cams right in the range we'd be looking at for this. Either our Pro LS SUM-8710R1 or the Cam Motion CXM-03-01-0033 would be a great fit for this build.
We like the direction this is going. We've gone from max effort baddest LS-Swapped Miata out there to a stockish 6.2. Gobs of power and torque aren't needed for a light car to make it fast or a blast to drive. We like the recipe you're after now. @68Formula and @DualQuadDave mentioned two cams right in the range we'd be looking at for this. Either our Pro LS SUM-8710R1 or the Cam Motion CXM-03-01-0033 would be a great fit for this build.
I put this together about 4.5 years ago. Still running strong and puts a big grin on my grill every time I drive it. TxSpeed heads and mild cam build - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion
I would imagine something like this would be a hoot in a 2500# ride. My Vette weighs 3200. 700#'s is a huge difference.
I'd probably do a 416 if my stock short block ever lets go. More power with really good manners would be the goal. I'd use the top end I have now with something very similar to what Summit recommended cam wise. I'd shoot for something around 11.5:1 static CR. That's assuming you have 93 octane available. Go higher yet if you have E available and don't mind dropping more coin on a fuel system.
I would imagine something like this would be a hoot in a 2500# ride. My Vette weighs 3200. 700#'s is a huge difference.
I'd probably do a 416 if my stock short block ever lets go. More power with really good manners would be the goal. I'd use the top end I have now with something very similar to what Summit recommended cam wise. I'd shoot for something around 11.5:1 static CR. That's assuming you have 93 octane available. Go higher yet if you have E available and don't mind dropping more coin on a fuel system.
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Not sure if that trinity intake will clear a stock NA6 Miata hood. My original crate LS3 with the LS3 intake would clear, and even allow an FM strut tower brace over it. The LSXr 102 intake I have now required me to lose the strut tower brace, and **barely** clears the hood, even with some of the reinforcement cut out, and some other minor tweaks.
A stock rod modded LS3 manifold will probably do all you need for now.
An LS in a Miata is like a ship in a bottle. :-)
A stock rod modded LS3 manifold will probably do all you need for now.
An LS in a Miata is like a ship in a bottle. :-)
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Thread Starter
Teching In
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From: Alabama
from everything ive seen, you have four general options on intake routing, over the radiator and down into the grille, to the side and down (as shown here), to the side as a u-bend, sitting just over the valve cover, or slap a radiused entry/filter directly on the throttle body and convert to a speed density tune.
With the ultra low ram I think the best option is probably to rig up some sort of u bend style intake that sits up higher in the engine bay and use some sort of heat shield and hood vent combination to draw air in.
I could route it into the factory turn signal area using a ducted intake, but I kinda need those since its a street car. Maybe someone makes a duct kit with a turn signal in it.
Last edited by LSNA6; Jul 19, 2023 at 07:16 AM.
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The clearance issues with the Miata hood are towards the front. This is my car as it currently sits. Notice the MAP connector just behind the throttle body? The hood was hitting it and unlatching it, so I cut off the latch and use heat shrink tubing to hold it together. Notice the smooth intake tube? The LSXr intake manifold raised my throttle body up enough that the stock bellows style tube wouldn't allow the hood to close ... a smooth intake tube solved that. A 102mm throttle body or similar would likely not clear the stock hood with this manifold. There is about a credit card thickness between the throttle blade motor housing and the hood. See the rubbing mark where the hood hits the 'vette intake tube about halfway down? There is slight contact there.
This one doesn't look too tall and doesn't locate the throttle body forward a great deal. First Look: Performance Design’s XS Intake Manifold for LS3 V-8 (motortrend.com)
That light car won't need a long stroke to get it moving. I would do a LS 388 big bore short stroke combo. Or maybe a LT swap? L86 pullout with a run of the mill heads/cam setup will make 600whp using a MSD intake manifold on E85. Doesn't take much cam to get there either. A 22x 23X cam with ported stock castings will do it easily. 600whp in that light car will have enough trap speed to run 9's.
Thread Starter
Teching In
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From: Alabama
That light car won't need a long stroke to get it moving. I would do a LS 388 big bore short stroke combo. Or maybe a LT swap? L86 pullout with a run of the mill heads/cam setup will make 600whp using a MSD intake manifold on E85. Doesn't take much cam to get there either. A 22x 23X cam with ported stock castings will do it easily. 600whp in that light car will have enough trap speed to run 9's.
I don't have access to E85
There isn't currently a mounting solution for a LT1 in a miata, IIRC
I'm trying to reduce torque, going to a the DI LT1 would be counterproductive, especially down low, right off the bat.
This one doesn't look too tall and doesn't locate the throttle body forward a great deal. First Look: Performance Design’s XS Intake Manifold for LS3 V-8 (motortrend.com)
Thread Starter
Teching In
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From: Alabama
The clearance issues with the Miata hood are towards the front. This is my car as it currently sits. Notice the MAP connector just behind the throttle body? The hood was hitting it and unlatching it, so I cut off the latch and use heat shrink tubing to hold it together. Notice the smooth intake tube? The LSXr intake manifold raised my throttle body up enough that the stock bellows style tube wouldn't allow the hood to close ... a smooth intake tube solved that. A 102mm throttle body or similar would likely not clear the stock hood with this manifold. There is about a credit card thickness between the throttle blade motor housing and the hood. See the rubbing mark where the hood hits the 'vette intake tube about halfway down? There is slight contact there.
On The Tree
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The equalizer/trinity intakes wouldn't be a good choice for a 6500rpm cam. Something in the high 230s with 112+ centerline wouldn't be my choice.
You can make lots of torque with a 12:1 ls3 stroker, 24x/25x 110+4 cam, 650 lift, trickflow ls3s, fast intake with high hp runners and I would add a shaft rocker system with 3/8 PRs if you plan on sustaining high rpm during aggressive track use.
I did this very same thing on a 408, compared to my old 408 which had cath 225s and a 236/245 112 cam with 11:1 compression. New combo made almost 80 wheel more (factoring locked vs unlocked converter) and more torque from 4500 up.
The real short runner intakes are designed primarily for really high rpm (like 8000) or boost. From the mouths of the people who manufacture it. Racing at any kind of high DA makes this even worse. The fast manifold with the mid length runners are a great compromise
You can make lots of torque with a 12:1 ls3 stroker, 24x/25x 110+4 cam, 650 lift, trickflow ls3s, fast intake with high hp runners and I would add a shaft rocker system with 3/8 PRs if you plan on sustaining high rpm during aggressive track use.
I did this very same thing on a 408, compared to my old 408 which had cath 225s and a 236/245 112 cam with 11:1 compression. New combo made almost 80 wheel more (factoring locked vs unlocked converter) and more torque from 4500 up.
The real short runner intakes are designed primarily for really high rpm (like 8000) or boost. From the mouths of the people who manufacture it. Racing at any kind of high DA makes this even worse. The fast manifold with the mid length runners are a great compromise
Thread Starter
Teching In
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From: Alabama
` The equalizer/trinity intakes wouldn't be a good choice for a 6500rpm cam. Something in the high 230s with 112+ centerline wouldn't be my choice.
You can make lots of torque with a 12:1 ls3 stroker, 24x/25x 110+4 cam, 650 lift, trickflow ls3s, fast intake with high hp runners and I would add a shaft rocker system with 3/8 PRs if you plan on sustaining high rpm during aggressive track use.
I did this very same thing on a 408, compared to my old 408 which had cath 225s and a 236/245 112 cam with 11:1 compression. New combo made almost 80 wheel more (factoring locked vs unlocked converter) and more torque from 4500 up.
The real short runner intakes are designed primarily for really high rpm (like 8000) or boost. From the mouths of the people who manufacture it. Racing at any kind of high DA makes this even worse. The fast manifold with the mid length runners are a great compromise
You can make lots of torque with a 12:1 ls3 stroker, 24x/25x 110+4 cam, 650 lift, trickflow ls3s, fast intake with high hp runners and I would add a shaft rocker system with 3/8 PRs if you plan on sustaining high rpm during aggressive track use.
I did this very same thing on a 408, compared to my old 408 which had cath 225s and a 236/245 112 cam with 11:1 compression. New combo made almost 80 wheel more (factoring locked vs unlocked converter) and more torque from 4500 up.
The real short runner intakes are designed primarily for really high rpm (like 8000) or boost. From the mouths of the people who manufacture it. Racing at any kind of high DA makes this even worse. The fast manifold with the mid length runners are a great compromise
If I'm going to build a pure race car, it'll be something that's not really viable on the street at all, but that's not in the budget right now. I'm looking at this as a $25,000 project and things like a custom cage and tubbing the rear, a parachute, etc are not in that budget.
Please forgive the flip-flopping I'm doing in the build thread here- easier to talk about how to do something when money hasn't been spent yet.
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It’s a stock C6 Z06 intake tube (the plastic part, over the radiator). It gets thinner top to bottom there, but also wider. It was a good enough intake for the LS7, and I made 471whp through it in my car … can’t be too restrictive
Three issues:
I don't have access to E85
There isn't currently a mounting solution for a LT1 in a miata, IIRC
I'm trying to reduce torque, going to a the DI LT1 would be counterproductive, especially down low, right off the bat.
I'd rather have shorter intake manifold runners like the BTR Trinity has over the longer ones in that design, shorter runners are better for my build because the torque curve is moved towards the top of the rev range.
I don't have access to E85
There isn't currently a mounting solution for a LT1 in a miata, IIRC
I'm trying to reduce torque, going to a the DI LT1 would be counterproductive, especially down low, right off the bat.
I'd rather have shorter intake manifold runners like the BTR Trinity has over the longer ones in that design, shorter runners are better for my build because the torque curve is moved towards the top of the rev range.