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Been a longgg time since I made a build thread on anything. And I truly hate what FB has done for information sharing/gathering on builds, so back to the forums for me.
2007 C6 Z06
Current Setup - The way I purchased the vehicle
Haltech MF108
Mamo Ported TB
Mamo MSD
AHP Fixed LS7 Heads
BTR Stage 3 LS7 cam (V1)
JBA 1 7/8 LT's with catted X pipe
Corsa Sport Exhaust
Mcleod RXT Clutch
This setup made anywhere between 540 and 575whp depending on the wheel/tire combo and the dyno it was on. My best pass was a 10.8 @ 133 +1000ft DA
I added:
Vette air scoop
Mantic Triple and QT Bellhousing
DSS Carbon couplerless DS with ceramic bearings
RPM Level 7 T56
RPM Level 4 C6Z Diff with 3.90s, Quaife posi
ZR1 Axles
ECS Trans and Diff Brace
ARP wheel studs
17in Hoosier Bias plys on C5Z fronts
Nitrous Outlet Plate kit with standalone fuel cell
N2MB WOT Box with nitrous add on
Nitrous Leash Progressive Controller/Relay board
The 3.90/28in bias ply combo isn't ideal for N/A times but my plan was always to spray my way into the 9s once i got my 60ft under control (car made ~750whp on nitrous). Took me a couple seasons, since i only get to the track once or twice a year (covid, buying a house, having a kid, aka life). But i did finally get the car reliably into the 1.4s. This resulted in a best N/A pass of 10.5 @ 129 +1000ft DA with a 15mph direct headwind, 1.48 60ft on that one. MPH made sense with the combo of the bias plys and headwind.
Unfortunately, the track prep went to non existent and it got very cold when I got the car changed over to its nitrous settings, Only made 2 passes and aborted both when it spun. May have been a blessing though, because i noticed some coolant spray on the hood underside of the hood. I decided I didn't want to risk the bottom end, so it quickly turned to upgrade season.
The new setup:
Haltech CF112
Ironmask Short Runner MSD with 112mm TB OR BTR Trinity with 112mm TB (I bought them both)
Nick Williams 112TB
Ironmask Ported/Milled LS7 heads - 58cc ~ 12.8 -13.0 Static Compression
Cometic 0.040 MLS Headgaskets - Copper sprayed
T&D LS7 Pedestal Mount Adjustable Roller Rockers
PAC1209x valvesprings
BTR/BAM Solid Roller Lifters - Steel Bushing with DLC coating upgrade
Cam Motion 8620 core Custom Low Lash Solid Roller (255/271 .700"/.690" 112+3)
3/8 Manton Pushrods - Length TBD
ARP Head Studs
Meziere electric water pump
ARH 2in Headers with catless x pipe
Corsa Extreme Exhaust
Mamo/ATI 10% Underdrive pulley (Mamo modified A/C lip for better belt retention)
ID1000 Injectors
DSX Aux Pump and Flex Fuel Kit
AMT Motor and Diff mounts
Improved Racing Oil Temp Thermostat
Red Devil Titanium Brakes
N2MB nitrous controller for water and aux fuel pump control
When i can stomach spending more money I plan to add:
Vacuum pump
Tillett seats
Viking Shocks
Billet Specialties drag wheel to replace the forgestars
I don't street race much, if at all anymore. So this build is 1/4mi focused with the ability do some drag and drive events or no prep stuff. I am not going to a 15in setup either, I just want to keep this thing as well rounded as possible because hitting some road courses is always fun! Target RPM is every bit of the factory 8192rpm limit in the ECU. I ONLY drive this car to race it these days, so yearly mileage is super low. It's not my cruiser/show car (although it will remain incredibly clean!). I have a 10th Anniversary Firehawk to cover the cruises/shows with the family.
Why two intakes? Well, I won't get into the nitty gritty details but based on some of the homework we did, the BTR Trinity is showing some potential to perform better both in the 1/4mi and 1/2mi world. Which is NOT what I expected. So i will be dyno'ing, tracking both and doing some 60-150 work to see which one suits me better. I may keep them both, but my plan is to sell the one after I see which one gets me closer to my goals. My gut still says the MSD will do what i need it to, we'll see.
At the end of the day, my goals are:
1. 9 sec N/A on 17in wheel/28in tire combo, 145+mph trap speeds
2. 8 sec on nitrous, I will be putting together a sleeved block before i really after this one!
3. Complete a Drag and Drive event
4. Compete in some local No Prep events
I am waiting for the heads/cam/intake package to arrive and then i should be able to get it mostly together this season. Some odds and ends and the personal life schedule will keep me from actually completing it this year so I will be getting it tuned at Dynotune Motorsports in Columbus Ohio in spring of 2024. I wouldn't call Brians dyno a heartbreaker, but it has always aligned almost exactly with my trap speeds based on my power/weight, so it's definitely not a happy one. Should be somewhere north of 650, but i doubt I'll tap 700whp.
Last edited by Ryans99ls1; 05-03-2024 at 08:40 AM.
Well, I wish you the very best of luck. Sounds like one Helluva well rounded rocket of a car, and I don't say that about too many cars. My own car isn't even close to what you're doing. Go get 'em, guy!!!
It’s gonna be a beast. Having said that…throw some more duration at it since it’s not a driver. I put a 254/268 720 lift solid roller in the Chevelle (434) and it’s extremely docile. So much so, that I drive it to Church on nice days. Very, very streetable.
It’s gonna be a beast. Having said that…throw some more duration at it since it’s not a driver. I put a 254/268 720 lift solid roller in the Chevelle (434) and it’s extremely docile. So much so, that I drive it to Church on nice days. Very, very streetable.
I'd agree. I don't think I'd do a solid roller in my 408 under a 260+/270+.
Well, I wish you the very best of luck. Sounds like one Helluva well rounded rocket of a car, and I don't say that about too many cars. My own car isn't even close to what you're doing. Go get 'em, guy!!!
Much appreciated!
Originally Posted by Che70velle
It’s gonna be a beast. Having said that…throw some more duration at it since it’s not a driver. I put a 254/268 720 lift solid roller in the Chevelle (434) and it’s extremely docile. So much so, that I drive it to Church on nice days. Very, very streetable.
Originally Posted by 02EBC5Z06
I'd agree. I don't think I'd do a solid roller in my 408 under a 260+/270+.
you guys are gonna make post those nitty gritty details i mentioned in the post... I started with something around 260/270 but the specs/valve events i went with from Cam Motion absolutely smashed the bigger ones in the midrange (4000-6000rpm) and the larger durations showed basically NO advantage up top on BOTH intakes. So the question is why? The intake.. the combo will always be intake limited regardless of the MSD or Trinity. The only way around it would be to go with something like a CID, which i am not doing. The MSD, regardless of the short runner mod and bigger TB, starts struggle above 6000rpm. Those mods are just REALLY good at helping flatten the curve and at least give you a big fat flat powerband to ~7500rpm. The Trinity sacrifices the mid range to keep pulling up top and rip all the way beyond 8000rpm.
So, what do you cam for? For the MSD, you want to cram as much as possible into its usable RPM range, knowing its not going to gain really anything above 7000rpm and with the right setup, be flat to 7500, after that you will be starting your decline and shifting by 7600-7700. The Trinity, in a 6 speed car, is a big challenge. You have to cam it to try and get some midrange back in it, but you can't shift the band too far left because this intake shines above 7000rpm. SOOOO which setup leads to a quicker pass? A slightly weaker midrange and high RPM power, or a strong midrange and a smaller, flatter powerband? Well, it depends.
Remember, this is a 6 speed car that i am drag racing, not roll racing, and I know for a fact that i use every bit of 4000rpm and up. A GOOD launch has my bog staying just above 4000rpm. An average launch drops me into the high 3000rpm range. The shift to 2nd gear puts me right at 5000 or just slightly higher. Thats where 99% of the E/T comes from, 1st and 2nd gear and the area under the curve wins every single time. Not to mention, in the no/low prep world, I can guarantee i will be using those low rpms quite often. The Trinity would require me to absolutely nail my high rpm shift points right up against the 8192rpm limit, that can be tough to do with how fast 1st and 2nd wrap, shift early and i am putting myself in a weaker spot... The MSD will be a bit more forgiving on the shift points but it would get worked if i do any high speed/1/2mi stuff.
Here is the interesting thing though, the valve events flat out WORKED on both intakes. the average power from 4000-8000rpm is within 2hp. (MSD 534 vs TR 532). I threw in a Trinity or MSD curve for comparison on both graphs. (These are simulated numbers, not dyno, but its a fair way to compare). You can see the cam specs in the key, the lift is the same across all of them.
you guys are gonna make post those nitty gritty details i mentioned in the post... I started with something around 260/270 but the specs/valve events i went with from Cam Motion absolutely smashed the bigger ones in the midrange (4000-6000rpm) and the larger durations showed basically NO advantage up top on BOTH intakes. So the question is why? The intake.. the combo will always be intake limited regardless of the MSD or Trinity. The only way around it would be to go with something like a CID, which i am not doing. The MSD, regardless of the short runner mod and bigger TB, starts struggle above 6000rpm. Those mods are just REALLY good at helping flatten the curve and at least give you a big fat flat powerband to ~7500rpm. The Trinity sacrifices the mid range to keep pulling up top and rip all the way beyond 8000rpm.
So, what do you cam for? For the MSD, you want to cram as much as possible into its usable RPM range, knowing its not going to gain really anything above 7000rpm and with the right setup, be flat to 7500, after that you will be starting your decline and shifting by 7600-7700. The Trinity, in a 6 speed car, is a big challenge. You have to cam it to try and get some midrange back in it, but you can't shift the band too far left because this intake shines above 7000rpm. SOOOO which setup leads to a quicker pass? A slightly weaker midrange and high RPM power, or a strong midrange and a smaller, flatter powerband? Well, it depends.
Remember, this is a 6 speed car that i am drag racing, not roll racing, and I know for a fact that i use every bit of 4000rpm and up. A GOOD launch has my bog staying just above 4000rpm. An average launch drops me into the high 3000rpm range. The shift to 2nd gear puts me right at 5000 or just slightly higher. Thats where 99% of the E/T comes from, 1st and 2nd gear and the area under the curve wins every single time. Not to mention, in the no/low prep world, I can guarantee i will be using those low rpms quite often. The Trinity would require me to absolutely nail my high rpm shift points right up against the 8192rpm limit, that can be tough to do with how fast 1st and 2nd wrap, shift early and i am putting myself in a weaker spot... The MSD will be a bit more forgiving on the shift points but it would get worked if i do any high speed/1/2mi stuff.
Here is the interesting thing though, the valve events flat out WORKED on both intakes. the average power from 4000-8000rpm is within 2hp. (MSD 534 vs TR 532). I threw in a Trinity or MSD curve for comparison on both graphs. (These are simulated numbers, not dyno, but its a fair way to compare). You can see the cam specs in the key, the lift is the same across all of them.
It sounds like you’ve spent some time on the matter. In the 90’s, when NASCAR threw restrictor plates at us engine guys, we all of a sudden were very intake limited also. Airflow was lopped off drastically and we had to figure out how to get more air in the engine with what we had. While I can’t speak on this too much, I’ll say that you’ll have to think outside the box to get the most out of ANY intake manifold that has a front mounted TB…(restrictor plate). Just because the intake gives up at 6500k rpm, doesn’t mean you can’t make power above that…it just gets harder to find it. Now if your simply going to the track a few times a year, just to have fun and goof off, then your going to be happy with this. But if your class racing, or you simply want to go faster, your gonna have to look around at other areas of the camshaft, not just valve events. Lift is your friend (torque) and will improve everything almost everywhere. You have the valvetrain parts to go bigger. A lot of guys won’t throw more lift at a port that starts giving up flow at a certain lift…research Flow Dwell Time, and you’ll see why opening the valve higher helps a port that’s stalling out at a certain flow number. More time spent by the valve at or above that threshold will pay dividends…which is where duration (to a certain extent) can help you, even though the valve events look “perfect” on paper. Going to a 2” step header to a 2 1/8” and a 3.5” collector with a 3.5” exhaust will help you also, particularly with the LS7 port and chamber design. Off topic here, but GM’s latest nascar R07 engine has an intake port that mirrors the LS7…yes the LS7 is that good.
FWIW, I love what your doing here. It’s great to see another fresh build here on Tech.
How are you talking about powerband and horsepower numbers relative to valve events on an un-built combo? You simmed out the two intakes and picked the cam specs based on that? When you build the engine it'll be interesting to see how close your sims are.
It sounds like you’ve spent some time on the matter. In the 90’s, when NASCAR threw restrictor plates at us engine guys, we all of a sudden were very intake limited also. Airflow was lopped off drastically and we had to figure out how to get more air in the engine with what we had. While I can’t speak on this too much, I’ll say that you’ll have to think outside the box to get the most out of ANY intake manifold that has a front mounted TB…(restrictor plate). Just because the intake gives up at 6500k rpm, doesn’t mean you can’t make power above that…it just gets harder to find it. Now if your simply going to the track a few times a year, just to have fun and goof off, then your going to be happy with this. But if your class racing, or you simply want to go faster, your gonna have to look around at other areas of the camshaft, not just valve events. Lift is your friend (torque) and will improve everything almost everywhere. You have the valvetrain parts to go bigger. A lot of guys won’t throw more lift at a port that starts giving up flow at a certain lift…research Flow Dwell Time, and you’ll see why opening the valve higher helps a port that’s stalling out at a certain flow number. More time spent by the valve at or above that threshold will pay dividends…which is where duration (to a certain extent) can help you, even though the valve events look “perfect” on paper. Going to a 2” step header to a 2 1/8” and a 3.5” collector with a 3.5” exhaust will help you also, particularly with the LS7 port and chamber design. Off topic here, but GM’s latest nascar R07 engine has an intake port that mirrors the LS7…yes the LS7 is that good.
FWIW, I love what your doing here. It’s great to see another fresh build here on Tech.
Completely agree on the getting creative here.. but i have created this imaginary box and put myself in it lol. I set out on this build wanting to run as much lift as possible for the reasons you stated above(lift is torque and the heads have the flow..). That being said, these rockers are still factory pedestal mounted on the stock rocker hardware, so i do have to be careful with overall strength and deflection there. The spring pockets are small and that is big limiting factor here too. I found a spring that would let me get into the low 700 lift zone, but i spent some time on the phone with Cam Motion and they talked me into staying just shy of 700 for reliability sake. Thats why we held the lift constant in the sims and just played with valve events to get me the curve i wanted.
While this combo will be nice, it is my intro to the solid roller life. I mentioned getting a sleeved block together on the side and my plan has always been to get a bit more aggressive if/when I get that going. Mainly going to an aftermarket head with a bigger spring pocket and shaft mounted rockers. That is where things will really open up. The spiral really takes over there too though, because i am not going to limit that combo to 8000rpm, so aftermarket ecu's come into the picture.. you see where i am going. I am going to learn quite a bit on this one, so that's good and will pay off later.
Believe me, i wanted those 2 to 2 1/8 headers with a 3.5in collector, but i could not justify spending $4000 on them. This isn't a low dollar build but that one I couldn't talk myself into. I will keep an eye out for a used set or add them MUCH further down the road when I am feeling rich and bored lol.
Side note, i was looking into making my own shaft mounted kit with the COMP BSR rail but it appears the T&D's bushing ID isn't the same, so I'd need a custom bushing made but it'd be fun little experiment to add some more rigidity to the equation. Might still be a winter project.
Originally Posted by spanks13
Sweet build!
How are you talking about powerband and horsepower numbers relative to valve events on an un-built combo? You simmed out the two intakes and picked the cam specs based on that? When you build the engine it'll be interesting to see how close your sims are.
Thank you! While the sims did spit out numbers, we pretty much ignored that. It was about shaping the torque curve to my application. It's known to estimate high, but does very well predicting shape of the curve. The intakes, head data, and valve lift were all held constant. The sims just showed me how the valve events moved the curve around based on known intake/head flow data. I had my own specs in mind but i also paid for a handful of specs from the well known guys. The specs were allll over the place, so down the rabbit hole i went.
Last edited by Ryans99ls1; 08-23-2023 at 08:13 AM.
Not sure if you have installed the ZR1 axles yet (but if you have still you need to make sure you know this, I presume car has not been run yet). You may have this covered but I thought I would add it for other people that might go down a similar path with ZR1 axles. They changed the spline count on the ZR1 on the brake hub side of the axles to 33 spline thus your bearing will not work as 2007 were 30 spline. Now if you bought a 2009 and later bearing and put them in, they will not communicate with the ABS computer as they changed companies. I had to get (I have a 2006) some bearings from mechanical power which are 33 spline but retain the 1997 to 2008 sensors so they can communicate with my ABS computer. You may have already done this but thought I would point it out just in case. I think another option is they offer broached/resplined (1997-2008) bearings too (there is just enough metal 30 to 33 spline to do that change over).
Can you please tell me what company is selling headers for $4000?!?!? Id gladly start making my own set for alot less and bring them to market if there is a decent demand.
Beautiful build and cant wait to see how it compares to the sims.
Originally Posted by Ryans99ls1
Completely agree on the getting creative here.. but i have created this imaginary box and put myself in it lol. I set out on this build wanting to run as much lift as possible for the reasons you stated above(lift is torque and the heads have the flow..). That being said, these rockers are still factory pedestal mounted on the stock rocker hardware, so i do have to be careful with overall strength and deflection there. The spring pockets are small and that is big limiting factor here too. I found a spring that would let me get into the low 700 lift zone, but i spent some time on the phone with Cam Motion and they talked me into staying just shy of 700 for reliability sake. Thats why we held the lift constant in the sims and just played with valve events to get me the curve i wanted.
While this combo will be nice, it is my intro to the solid roller life. I mentioned getting a sleeved block together on the side and my plan has always been to get a bit more aggressive if/when I get that going. Mainly going to an aftermarket head with a bigger spring pocket and shaft mounted rockers. That is where things will really open up. The spiral really takes over there too though, because i am not going to limit that combo to 8000rpm, so aftermarket ecu's come into the picture.. you see where i am going. I am going to learn quite a bit on this one, so that's good and will pay off later.
Believe me, i wanted those 2 to 2 1/8 headers with a 3.5in collector, but i could not justify spending $4000 on them. This isn't a low dollar build but that one I couldn't talk myself into. I will keep an eye out for a used set or add them MUCH further down the road when I am feeling rich and bored lol.
Side note, i was looking into making my own shaft mounted kit with the COMP BSR rail but it appears the T&D's bushing ID isn't the same, so I'd need a custom bushing made but it'd be fun little experiment to add some more rigidity to the equation. Might still be a winter project.
Thank you! While the sims did spit out numbers, we pretty much ignored that. It was about shaping the torque curve to my application. It's known to estimate high, but does very well predicting shape of the curve. The intakes, head data, and valve lift were all held constant. The sims just showed me how the valve events moved the curve around based on known intake/head flow data. I had my own specs in mind but i also paid for a handful of specs from the well known guys. The specs were allll over the place, so down the rabbit hole i went.
Can you please tell me what company is selling headers for $4000?!?!? Id gladly start making my own set for alot less and bring them to market if there is a decent demand.
Beautiful build and cant wait to see how it compares to the sims.
Not sure if you have installed the ZR1 axles yet (but if you have still you need to make sure you know this, I presume car has not been run yet). You may have this covered but I thought I would add it for other people that might go down a similar path with ZR1 axles. They changed the spline count on the ZR1 on the brake hub side of the axles to 33 spline thus your bearing will not work as 2007 were 30 spline. Now if you bought a 2009 and later bearing and put them in, they will not communicate with the ABS computer as they changed companies. I had to get (I have a 2006) some bearings from mechanical power which are 33 spline but retain the 1997 to 2008 sensors so they can communicate with my ABS computer. You may have already done this but thought I would point it out just in case. I think another option is they offer broached/resplined (1997-2008) bearings too (there is just enough metal 30 to 33 spline to do that change over).
Oh all of that is installed, used, and running well. It's part of the package that got me into the lower 60's i was after. My setup is resplined 07 z06 bearings to get them to 33spline. Good info for others for sure!
Originally Posted by Ls1Rx-7
Can you please tell me what company is selling headers for $4000?!?!? Id gladly start making my own set for alot less and bring them to market if there is a decent demand.
Beautiful build and cant wait to see how it compares to the sims.
my build is extremely similar to yours.....do yourself a favor, you absolutely need the the 3.5" collector.........that makes a bigger difference than a stepped header. I spent the 3000 for the ARH race headers, 2 inch tubes with the 3.5" collector.....reason being? of all the builds i seen on the internet, yes i know internet numbers with dyno sheets as well as 1/4 mile slips, ive seen some builds stand out from others, and the ones that seemed to perform better used a 3.5" collector
i dont think you would need the step, may not be worth the hassle even just fitment wise.........i think a straight 2 would be just fine. i did see a set of triple stepped,1 7/8 to 2 to 2 1/8 that made good numbers, think it was in a 4th gen
my build is extremely similar to yours.....do yourself a favor, you absolutely need the the 3.5" collector.........that makes a bigger difference than a stepped header. I spent the 3000 for the ARH race headers, 2 inch tubes with the 3.5" collector.....reason being? of all the builds i seen on the internet, yes i know internet numbers with dyno sheets as well as 1/4 mile slips, ive seen some builds stand out from others, and the ones that seemed to perform better used a 3.5" collector
Agreed. I know I really need the 3.5in collector. Unfortunately, the 2in with 3.5in collectors are still $3900. I think they had a significant covid price bump that i just can't get behind right now. That is still 2k more than the standard 2in x 3in combo. I feel like i could cut out and put in the 3.5in collector and forward portion of the xpipe for cheaper than new.. but yeah something I know i need to get a handle on at some point to maximize it all.
Agreed. I know I really need the 3.5in collector. Unfortunately, the 2in with 3.5in collectors are still $3900. I think they had a significant covid price bump that i just can't get behind right now. That is still 2k more than the standard 2in x 3in combo. I feel like i could cut out and put in the 3.5in collector and forward portion of the xpipe for cheaper than new.. but yeah something I know i need to get a handle on at some point to maximize it all.
Hell if you don't want to run the axle back, then just buy the headers, xpipe and no connection tubes. Saves you 250
Hell if you don't want to run the axle back, then just buy the headers, xpipe and no connection tubes. Saves you 250
I'm too classy for dumps, you know that.... lol.
The Corsa Extreme is REALLY light. Not enough savings there for me to justify dump life. (and seriously, the brake calipers I have picked up save the 20lbs i have in the exhaust. The rotors get me another 45lbs on top of that)
08-21-2023, 01:46 PM
C6Z Solid Roller LS7 Build 
