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Opinions on LS2 vs LSX

 
Old 11-13-2004, 06:31 PM
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I just read in my GM high tech and it said no true gains over the LS-6. It`s made for a 90mm,eliminates the need for an idle air control motor,cruise module and throttle relaxer for traction control. Also says in the article the LS2 composite intake manifold is largely the same as the LS1`s, just been changed reflect various sensor relocations. Also mount the trottle body on a slightly upward angle to prevent water puddling at the base.

This is just some of the article about the new LS2 motor. I don`t know alot myself about what it can do. I went ahead and bought the LSX and went with it. Granted I`m selling my LS6 to make some of the money up!! I hope this helps. The issue Is january 2005 Volume 11, no 1

Good Luck!!
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Old 11-13-2004, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by gomer
I was told by a very reliable source that there will be a billet 90mm TB being offered for less than $350 and no core charge in a month or so
Why does that not surprise me?
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Old 11-18-2004, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by gomer
I was told by a very reliable source that there will be a billet 90mm TB being offered for less than $350 and no core charge in a month or so
We'll see
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Old 11-18-2004, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ArKay99
Patrick, I assume you are stating 44-46 degrees at .050" not .006? You are correct. The calculator I am using shows me 2 different graphs. 1 for .050" and one for .006". For the .006" events 109 ICL makes the best all around power and for the .050" events the 112 ICL makes the best power.
For ideal power on a 346, you want your intake closing point to be no earlier than 44-46 ABDC (@ .050"). If you advance the cam, you will be lowering the torque and power peaks and you will lose total power and torque. Sometimes the desktop dynos don't show this but the 1/4 traps will show it. Retard your cam timing some and you will go faster, just like Fireball did when he retarded his T-Rex.
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Old 11-18-2004, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Patrick G
For ideal power on a 346, you want your intake closing point to be no earlier than 44-46 ABDC (@ .050"). If you advance the cam, you will be lowering the torque and power peaks and you will lose total power and torque. Sometimes the desktop dynos don't show this but the 1/4 traps will show it. Retard your cam timing some and you will go faster, just like Fireball did when he retarded his T-Rex.

There are many other factors that influence optimum power on a ls1 as well. I remember being told by yourself that my 224/224 110lsa 106icl cam closed the intake valve to early, 38 degrees after bottom dead to be exact. With stock heads this cam made 405rwhp, and 406rwtq. It pushed a 3650 or so raceweight car 117.xx mph on the same day and track that a car about 100 pounds lighter the mine was trapping 118.xx with a TSP 231/237 112 lsa cam. That car had 4.30 gears to my 4.11s as well.

Also, the TREX does not fall with in the 44-46 range either, it closes the intake at 49 ABDC. Retarding it two degrees gives you 51 ABDC.

Point is there are two many different aspects of a camshaft that determine how power comes in and how much power it makes to make a general statement like your intake closing point must be in the 44-46 ABDC range.
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Old 11-18-2004, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DAPSUPRSLO
There are many other factors that influence optimum power on a ls1 as well. I remember being told by yourself that my 224/224 110lsa 106icl cam closed the intake valve to early, 38 degrees after bottom dead to be exact. With stock heads this cam made 405rwhp, and 406rwtq. It pushed a 3650 or so raceweight car 117.xx mph on the same day and track that a car about 100 pounds lighter the mine was trapping 118.xx with a TSP 231/237 112 lsa cam. That car had 4.30 gears to my 4.11s as well.
Congrats on runnng so fast with an ICL of 106. Your combination was probably tuned better than the other car running the bigger cam. I can almost guarantee you that you would have made more mph and a better ET if you had maximized your combination with ICL between 110 and 112. Why? Because this would have fattened your power and torque curves everywhere, not just at the peaks.

Also, the TREX does not fall with in the 44-46 range either, it closes the intake at 49 ABDC. Retarding it two degrees gives you 51 ABDC.
Very true, however Fireball picked up somewhere near 2 mph by retarding his T-Rex 2 degrees (giving him an IVC point of 51 degrees ABDC). This helps reinforce the fact that an intake closing point of 38 degrees ABDC (@ .050") is way too early for best power. 44-46 degrees IVC point is best for street/strip cars. A later IVC point seems to work for pure race motors. 38 degrees? Pure street IMO.

Point is there are two many different aspects of a camshaft that determine how power comes in and how much power it makes to make a general statement like your intake closing point must be in the 44-46 ABDC range.
Agree to a point, but I stand by my numbers. I've seen them proven on engine dynos and at the track for too many years now. 38 degrees IVC point is leaving a lot of power and torque on the table.
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Old 11-18-2004, 12:05 PM
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The only thing is his car was tuned by a tuner that is very compitent and no ther cam only cars were putting up those kind of mphs at this event.

Fatten up the torque, this cam made 380 rwtq at 2800 and up to its peak of 406rwtq. I've not seen another cam only graph that made this kind of torque yet (that doesn't mean they don't exist, i've just not seen one).

Fireball also got rid of some other issues as well as retarding the cam, I am not 100% convinced that he picked up because of retarding his cam. Retarding the cam also opens the exhaust valve later promoting more pumping losses through the exhaust stroke, at high rpms that is.

The cam I just got rid of produced a later IVC but it also had radically different EVC, EVO, and IVO compared to my 224 cam. It did manage to carry my 3590 raceweight car to 119 mph (230/236 107icl 107lsa 574/573 cam).

I believe that there is gains to be had by changing the IVC. However, I think the range of 44-46 ABDC for optimal results is too narrow.
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Old 11-18-2004, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by beardWS6
I just read in my GM high tech and it said no true gains over the LS-6. It`s made for a 90mm,eliminates the need for an idle air control motor,cruise module and throttle relaxer for traction control. Good Luck!!

haha, that a bunch of poo...None of those items were used/needed on the C5's since day one.

Twice now I have seen gains over 20hp over an LS6. Recently on a 383 stroker motor that was NA and made over 500 to the tires.

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Old 11-18-2004, 06:13 PM
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I wonder how much i would pick up with a LS2 intake and a TPIS 90MM TB with my 370ci motor and Blower??? I bet it will flow better and make more power then the stock LS1 intake on there now........
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Old 11-18-2004, 06:33 PM
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I like the LSX for nitrous reasons
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Old 11-18-2004, 06:49 PM
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This is my opinion on this. The LS6 intake is a very nice intake. For the guys that are running a mild cam, slightly ported heads, and stock ci, the LS6 intake is the way to go. The Fast 90 or the LS2 intake could actualy hurt your numbers.
Now for the guys that are stock cube, big cam & heads, and a fair amount of compression you will see a fair gain. Stroker motors, NOS motors, or blower/turbo motors will see the best gain. You will have a very large increase in volume from the 90mm opening.

The true gain from Fast and the LS2 intake is that you can run a 90mm tb. Both intakes have there values. You have the option to install burst pannels on the Fast intake for nos aplications, were the LS2 does not have that provision. The LS2 is $235.75 at SDPC(alot cheaper than the LSX) VS. $700.00 plus, and does the same job with out a place for burst pannels.
We have sold alot of LS2 intakes to several different people, with different set ups. I am sure that it won't be long before everyone starts posting there results.
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Old 11-18-2004, 07:03 PM
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Why do they need your TB for core?
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Old 11-18-2004, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jpz06
Why do they need your TB for core?
TPIs uses the stock internals on there billet tb. Basicly the throttle cable lever is reused along with the shaft were the blade mounts.
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Old 11-18-2004, 07:14 PM
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So what your saying is that on a 346ci and a 300 shot of NO2, the 90mm lsx and tb would be a much better gain then a N/A application even if its a stock ci...



Originally Posted by [email protected]
This is my opinion on this. The LS6 intake is a very nice intake. For the guys that are running a mild cam, slightly ported heads, and stock ci, the LS6 intake is the way to go. The Fast 90 or the LS2 intake could actualy hurt your numbers.
Now for the guys that are stock cube, big cam & heads, and a fair amount of compression you will see a fair gain. Stroker motors, NOS motors, or blower/turbo motors will see the best gain. You will have a very large increase in volume from the 90mm opening.

The true gain from Fast and the LS2 intake is that you can run a 90mm tb. Both intakes have there values. You have the option to install burst pannels on the Fast intake for nos aplications, were the LS2 does not have that provision. The LS2 is $235.75 at SDPC(alot cheaper than the LSX) VS. $700.00 plus, and does the same job with out a place for burst pannels.
We have sold alot of LS2 intakes to several different people, with different set ups. I am sure that it won't be long before everyone starts posting there results.
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Old 11-18-2004, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by BADZ
So what your saying is that on a 346ci and a 300 shot of NO2, the 90mm lsx and tb would be a much better gain then a N/A application even if its a stock ci...
I think if you were to take a 346ci with 300 shot you would see a very nice gain with the LS2 intake or the LSX VS the LS6.
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Old 11-18-2004, 07:46 PM
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I'm going to take it to a 400 with the 90mm lsx and tb and the kooks 1 7/8 to 2" headers...I use to have the ls6 intake, 1 3/4 grotts and stock ported tb....
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Old 11-19-2004, 09:39 AM
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The only problem I have is saying the FAST TB is junk,I agree it should been done better but all thats required to make it work flawlessly is to peen the bearing on the shaft so that the shaft cant walk,then run the set screw THREW the shaft,FAST just has the screw holding the shaft and arm together.I used a bridgeport and drilled down into the shaft,then I put the set screw back in with locktite,now the arm will never be able to move again because both pieces are held together.

Your TB is fixed....
I'm going LSX intake...
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Old 11-19-2004, 01:55 PM
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The quality of the GM intake is far better too. Every FAST I have seen need many hours porting it to get the pieces to match up. BADZ you will see a big gain in the increase of TB size. With that much juice it needs that much more air to feed it. Good rule is the LS6 is good under 450 if you want the last of the HP out of your setup the LS2 will help some to 475 but above that you will need the 90 to feed the motor.

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