And you don't think SDPC is gonna throw together something they can market. The 402 shortblock they sell is something that only they do. The 427 will follow

 

02SOMWS6 - I think we're talking about two different things here. I'm referring to an actual assembled LS7 engine from GM. I have no doubt the LS7 bare block will be available from GM so tuners can build them to customers specs.

 

Yeah I saw somewhere(on a GM site) that the LS7 block would be available fall 2005. Hopefully the crate motor will follow.

Anyone know what the production capacity is for the new engine facility? something like 12000/year...

Add up all the cars they make engines for and subtract that from the capacity and you'd know if they have the extra capacity for it. Each engine is built by one person from start to finish so they can tailer the production to demand. So if they offer a limited number of LS7 crates, and its a hit, they'd pump up production to demand. That pretty much means they build it when you order it, unless they have one laying around....

12000/year minus engines for these: CTS-V, STS-V, Z06(What else? Anybody?))

Theres no doubt in my mind they will offer an LS7 crate motor, but the price could be so high that most people will wait for whatever the aftermarket vendors are advertising at the time....unless they get smart and utilize the facility's full capacity and do them build-on-demand and offer super-cheap prices and just put people on a waiting list if the queue gets to packed, Then they can just expand or build another facility.

I think thats what their plan is, myself.

But as far as a crate LS7 motor....I think it will be better to go with SDPC or whoever starts offering these with forged internals for a lower price. Not as good a warranty, but its cheaper..which is what most people care about.(With a GM warranty you can take it in to any of their thousands of dealers and they can probably help you get a new one or fix it under warranty...with others the warranty is shorter, and you'd have to freight it to them for inspection....BUT you dont have to deal with the crappy dealership service we all know and love ) That is, unless they make you ship it to the engine facility...which is likely to be the case..

Sorry to go off-topic(the topic here is the max bore of the LS2, in case anyone forgot ) Just had to throw that tidbit out there. Maybe I'll start a thread...

What else do/will they build engines for?

 

The LS2 block will only go out to 4.020. Thats what GM tells us anyway. I'm sure that is a safe #, so with some trial & error we might find it to go out more. If anyone is looking for an LS2 block we have a few in stock!!

 

Nate the LS2 is a siamese bore... I have sonic tested them, they are thicker but it is the aluminum behind the sleeve, which is even better news for the Dry-Sleeve guys.... I can get 4.200 dry sleeve bl ocks soon.

 

Steve who needs ti parts and expensive bs thats not needed.I can tell u by the end of 05 or early 06 u will see 427 LS2 shortblocks being sold by SD for under 5,000 and that will include forged internals.Why would I buy a Darton or a C5R based shortblock now when there easily 3 to 5,000 more for basically the same thing.

I'm waiting patiently for my SDPC 427 shorblock

 

As dave stated we have sonic tested, bored, sleeved and machined 5 LS2 blocks so far and a few more under way. So far they have all been a bit different as the liners are "cast in place" like the LS1 blocks. I posted earlier in a post that any engine over a finished bore of 4.005 I don't rec. unless it is to clean up for honeing or fixing some damage?. There will be no advantage to going an extra .010 or .020 anyway in power so why make it bigger if there is a chance to cause a problem? just my 2cents.

Sonic testing these blocks to find out how far you can go on the factory liner is a waste of time as the machine (ours is about $4,000) does not distinguish well between where the liner stops and the aluminum starts. Every one we have re-sleeved looked to be safe to atleast 4.010- 4.0150, I would hate to rec. bigger and someone has a problem down the road. Remember you will not see the issue in increasing the factory bore size while you are machining or assembling, if there is a problem it will be after a few heat cycles and some running time: TOO LATE

Our LS2 re-sleeves are good for 4.155 bore as we speak 427 - 454 are attainable.

 

Rather wait for the 7.0 block and get it done by GM,then just finish hone it and its done. But your info is still great Nick...

 

Don't forget you'll still need ARP oversized studs in the 7.0 blocks, square deck, finish hone, clearencing... etc....

When are these 7.0's hitting warehouse shelves across the US??

 

Sled,If I had to guess we wont see them until the end of Oct/Nov..I have my buddy Jay Fisher owner of a Pontiac/GMC dealership checking every week for a part number and aval. but nothing yet.Westin Machine would do my block when I'm ready or I'll just buy a short from Kris at SDPC....

 

So we'll see the them in full bloom in spring 06 , probably a year or so from now when they hit tracks after the winter...
in the meantime 4.155 anyone?! If i could ever snag a LS1 car, I'd do the 4" stroke x 4.155" combo with juice.... Oh the ring to a SBC 434..... GENIII to boot !!!

 

I am told that LS7 blocks are being manufactured with the intention of being sold to us gearheads --- GM says they plan to meet our demand! Only time will tell. No pricing information at all, not even a hint --- the channels that a part must go thru to be priced for resale is longer than the line of people who want an LS7 block! I really believe we will see the engines and the blocks available by November or December.

 

Thats what I was told too...
Thanks Kris...

When u guys start building 427 shortblocks u will definetly get my order

 

I picked up a new LS2 casting last week to measure just for that purpose. My plan is for Darton to offer both wet and dry sleeves for this engine. When doing the inspection I can give you an idea of what the original wall thickness of the sleeves is.

I also want to do a comparison between the LS2 and earlier LS1, LS6 blocks. I see several areas of the block that have been changed, some not for the better by the looks of things. The LS2 looks significantly thinner at the rear of cylinder eight and the front of cylinder two. I'm going to set the block up on my CNC to do some measuring in these areas. My usual method is to drill holes in a junk block but this block I would like to save and use for an MID installation.

Darton has blanks on order from which to make the 4.200" sleeves in house. I am in the process of selling them a machining center and designing the necessary fixtures for this very purpose. I think it will be a couple of months before they are up and running.

Steve

 

I assumed that what the fellow was talking about was the actual short block as used in the new LS7 engine. That's why I said the price would be much higher than quoted.

If the block is reasonable in price, one can certainly put together an inexpensive "crate" style engine using parts off the shelf.

I use titanium rods in most of the engines I build. I have three here now in fact that I am working on, two of which are street engines. A titanium rod engine will rev up considerably faster than a steel rod engine of equal horsepower and will rev considerably higher. There is no way a steel rod engine can compete against an equivalent titanium rod engine in competition. The titanium rod engine will accelerate much harder off the corners. GM obviously sees the benefits or they would not be going this route. The Honda NSX from day one came with titanium con rods.

If one can not afford a custom built engine then the crate engine is a good alternative. I'm not arguing that point. Keep in mind that there are many out there that have the money to build a very strong custom engine. Those are the folks that want the best parts available not just something off the shelf.

Steve

 

Here is linkto the JEGS site with the GM LS7 crate @ 505 Hp.

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...0763&langId=-1



For that price with all those goodies, wow. I'd like to see the head flow #s. Titanium valves and Con rods, wow. Though @ 427 cubes a 505 HP output is quite tame. Lot's of potential.