LS2 block interior revealed
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 356
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Just a quick thought on the coolant issue. I believe the LS2 release info from GM indicated that the LS2 coolant pump is higher flow capacity than the previous pump. Does anyone have the specific detail on that?
Please keep us informed on the sleeve progress.
Todd
Please keep us informed on the sleeve progress.
Todd
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 738
Likes: 177
From: Oceanside, Ca.
LS2 coolant pumps The LS2 pump is a step backward not forward. To save a couple of pounds, GM reduced the bearing diameter from 1 1/2" down to 1 1/8". Instead of using roller bearings on a 3/4" shaft they now use a little ball bearing on a much smaller shaft.
Flow is not up to that of the LS1 pump either. They reduced the size of the thermostat housing and stat itself.
Evans pump with their 160 degree stat flows 85 gallons per minute.
LS1 pump with GM stat flows 55 gallons per minute.
LS2 pump with GM stat flows only 39 gallons per minute.
Evans worked with stats to get the flow higher on the LS2 but gave up. I was told they could not get a 160 degree stat to work reliably in this pump. They saw no reason to pursue it further and recommend using the LS1 pump instead.
Steve
Flow is not up to that of the LS1 pump either. They reduced the size of the thermostat housing and stat itself.
Evans pump with their 160 degree stat flows 85 gallons per minute.
LS1 pump with GM stat flows 55 gallons per minute.
LS2 pump with GM stat flows only 39 gallons per minute.
Evans worked with stats to get the flow higher on the LS2 but gave up. I was told they could not get a 160 degree stat to work reliably in this pump. They saw no reason to pursue it further and recommend using the LS1 pump instead.
Steve
Originally Posted by WhiteDiamond
Just a quick thought on the coolant issue. I believe the LS2 release info from GM indicated that the LS2 coolant pump is higher flow capacity than the previous pump. Does anyone have the specific detail on that?
Please keep us informed on the sleeve progress.
Todd
Please keep us informed on the sleeve progress.
Todd
__________________
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Steve - Thanks for information on the water pump. That is good information to know.
Question; Is the Evans pump just as effective with standard Dex-Cool coolant or does it require the Evans coolant?
Question; Is the Evans pump just as effective with standard Dex-Cool coolant or does it require the Evans coolant?
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 738
Likes: 177
From: Oceanside, Ca.
Evans pump The Evans pump will work fine with regular anti freeze - water mixture on a stock or dry sleeved block. It has much improved impeller design over the GM pump.
Steve
Steve
Originally Posted by DrkPhx
Steve - Thanks for information on the water pump. That is good information to know.
Question; Is the Evans pump just as effective with standard Dex-Cool coolant or does it require the Evans coolant?
Question; Is the Evans pump just as effective with standard Dex-Cool coolant or does it require the Evans coolant?
__________________
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Quick question. I know an LS2 kit is in developement.
I'm going to be needing a new engine in about a year and I'm always wondering about Sleeving and Daily Driving. Is it OK to Do?
Also, What is the Difference in Stregnth between the LS2 ans LS1. From what I read you were saying the LS1 is better? I have a '99. Is that the Later Block or a maybe year (in between)
I'm asking because I will probably still have my motor in place and then build a shortblock to replace it with. So I might start out with a different block.
I'm going to be needing a new engine in about a year and I'm always wondering about Sleeving and Daily Driving. Is it OK to Do?
Also, What is the Difference in Stregnth between the LS2 ans LS1. From what I read you were saying the LS1 is better? I have a '99. Is that the Later Block or a maybe year (in between)
I'm asking because I will probably still have my motor in place and then build a shortblock to replace it with. So I might start out with a different block.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 738
Likes: 177
From: Oceanside, Ca.
Street use The LS1 block is the best block for wet sleeving by far. Much more strength because they lack the windows in the main bulk heads that the other LS blocks have. We will have an LS1 MID wet sleeve for bores up to 4.200" this summer.
The LS2 with dry sleeve will do the trick also. We will have a prototype done shortly for testing. For an engine that is not full bore, the LS2 dry sleeve sholuld work just fine. Price to machine and install sleeves will be considerably less than the wet sleeve. Of course you will most likely have to purchase a new block for the dry sleeves.
Steve
The LS2 with dry sleeve will do the trick also. We will have a prototype done shortly for testing. For an engine that is not full bore, the LS2 dry sleeve sholuld work just fine. Price to machine and install sleeves will be considerably less than the wet sleeve. Of course you will most likely have to purchase a new block for the dry sleeves.
Steve
Originally Posted by Richiec77
Quick question. I know an LS2 kit is in developement.
I'm going to be needing a new engine in about a year and I'm always wondering about Sleeving and Daily Driving. Is it OK to Do?
Also, What is the Difference in Stregnth between the LS2 ans LS1. From what I read you were saying the LS1 is better? I have a '99. Is that the Later Block or a maybe year (in between)
I'm asking because I will probably still have my motor in place and then build a shortblock to replace it with. So I might start out with a different block.
I'm going to be needing a new engine in about a year and I'm always wondering about Sleeving and Daily Driving. Is it OK to Do?
Also, What is the Difference in Stregnth between the LS2 ans LS1. From what I read you were saying the LS1 is better? I have a '99. Is that the Later Block or a maybe year (in between)
I'm asking because I will probably still have my motor in place and then build a shortblock to replace it with. So I might start out with a different block.
__________________
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 320
Likes: 5
From: Nottingham, Notts, England, UK
Originally Posted by Richiec77
the LS1 is better? I have a '99. Is that the Later Block or a maybe year (in between).
Hope this is helps. Mike.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 738
Likes: 177
From: Oceanside, Ca.
Mike,
The earliest LS1 blocks did not have a cross over passage cast into the block between the lifter bores at the rear of the block. There is a cross over passage in the cover but it is rather narrow. There is sufficient material in the block to either machine or die grind a channel in the block. A bit more work but it can be done.
Steve
The earliest LS1 blocks did not have a cross over passage cast into the block between the lifter bores at the rear of the block. There is a cross over passage in the cover but it is rather narrow. There is sufficient material in the block to either machine or die grind a channel in the block. A bit more work but it can be done.
Steve
Originally Posted by Mike at Boost Performance.co.uk
From what I can gather you need an ls1 block with the centre row of rocker cover bolts as opposed to the peripheral rocker cover bolts. So, you don't want a 98 block. The more common ls1 has the oil galleries joined together by a groove in the rear of the block, right under the rear cover. These are the only ls1 blocks I've seen. I think the early (98) block doesn't have the groove in the block, the groove is in the cover instead. Steve will probably clarify this for you.
Hope this is helps. Mike.
Hope this is helps. Mike.
__________________
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
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TECH Resident
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 855
Likes: 0
From: AUSTIN TX
Steve, this is a little off topic, but you sound like the one to answer this question. Do you really think GM introduced the cast in bulk head windows to improve performance or do you think they did it to reduce machining cost, and reduce the the amount of aluminum used in the block casting process (though the difference would be minute, with the number of blocks produced the savings would be measurable); then tried to sugar coat this with claims of increased performance due to improved breathing. I am asking because I have had this argument with numerous individuals over the last 3 to 4 years, to me it sounded like another case of the improved cooling heads of the early 80's.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 738
Likes: 177
From: Oceanside, Ca.
Good question.
I believe the main reason is to cut weight and reduce manufacturing costs. I do however believe there may be a slight increase in power on a wet sump engine because of the deep skirt design of the block. Less if you use a vacuum pump, probably none on a dry sump. Even if there were a good kick out style aftermarket pan, it wouldn't do much good on a deep skirt block. A deeper pan would be good but there just isn't any ground clearance.
Some have claimed fifty horsepower increase with the windowed blocks. Seems a bit much to me. If that were the case, all the Bow Tie racing blocks would surely be cast with holes in the main webbing. I'm not about to start cutting holes in the main webs to increase power on any of the stuff I build!
Steve
I believe the main reason is to cut weight and reduce manufacturing costs. I do however believe there may be a slight increase in power on a wet sump engine because of the deep skirt design of the block. Less if you use a vacuum pump, probably none on a dry sump. Even if there were a good kick out style aftermarket pan, it wouldn't do much good on a deep skirt block. A deeper pan would be good but there just isn't any ground clearance.
Some have claimed fifty horsepower increase with the windowed blocks. Seems a bit much to me. If that were the case, all the Bow Tie racing blocks would surely be cast with holes in the main webbing. I'm not about to start cutting holes in the main webs to increase power on any of the stuff I build!
Steve
Originally Posted by BOWTIE
Steve, this is a little off topic, but you sound like the one to answer this question. Do you really think GM introduced the cast in bulk head windows to improve performance or do you think they did it to reduce machining cost, and reduce the the amount of aluminum used in the block casting process (though the difference would be minute, with the number of blocks produced the savings would be measurable); then tried to sugar coat this with claims of increased performance due to improved breathing. I am asking because I have had this argument with numerous individuals over the last 3 to 4 years, to me it sounded like another case of the improved cooling heads of the early 80's.
__________________
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
TECH Resident
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 855
Likes: 0
From: AUSTIN TX
Originally Posted by Steve - Race Eng
Good question.
I believe the main reason is to cut weight and reduce manufacturing costs. I do however believe there may be a slight increase in power on a wet sump engine because of the deep skirt design of the block. Less if you use a vacuum pump, probably none on a dry sump. Even if there were a good kick out style aftermarket pan, it wouldn't do much good on a deep skirt block. A deeper pan would be good but there just isn't any ground clearance.
Some have claimed fifty horsepower increase with the windowed blocks. Seems a bit much to me. If that were the case, all the Bow Tie racing blocks would surely be cast with holes in the main webbing. I'm not about to start cutting holes in the main webs to increase power on any of the stuff I build!
Steve
I believe the main reason is to cut weight and reduce manufacturing costs. I do however believe there may be a slight increase in power on a wet sump engine because of the deep skirt design of the block. Less if you use a vacuum pump, probably none on a dry sump. Even if there were a good kick out style aftermarket pan, it wouldn't do much good on a deep skirt block. A deeper pan would be good but there just isn't any ground clearance.
Some have claimed fifty horsepower increase with the windowed blocks. Seems a bit much to me. If that were the case, all the Bow Tie racing blocks would surely be cast with holes in the main webbing. I'm not about to start cutting holes in the main webs to increase power on any of the stuff I build!
Steve
