500 ci LS2?
That kind of stuff is my concern.. will the motor have to come out to remove a head? If I do go in the 440+ ci range, the single plane intake will be the ONLY way to go, hence why i was concerned about the intake clearance.. I already know that a bunch of milling on the intake and elbow will be needed in order to make that work, just wondering how much more. I also wonder if a motor plate mounting setup would help.. could lower the motor an inch or something with that style setup... or maybe even modify the aftermarket K member that I will be running by then and make it sit the motor down an extra inch or so.
Originally Posted by Warhawk 1
Wet,
Our sleeves have a much larger flange around the top than GM's. More bearing surface. Their earlier LS sleeves were cast in place, ours are pressed in as their C5R block sleeves are. Our sleeves are much more robust than theirs. Its my belief that the flange on the top of their sleeve is not sufficient to keep the sleeve from dropping.
B
Our sleeves have a much larger flange around the top than GM's. More bearing surface. Their earlier LS sleeves were cast in place, ours are pressed in as their C5R block sleeves are. Our sleeves are much more robust than theirs. Its my belief that the flange on the top of their sleeve is not sufficient to keep the sleeve from dropping.
B
The reason I bring this up is because the big bore Darton sleeves that are commonly used here are notorious for dropping sleeves (in new blocks) if the blocks are not conditioned, and these sleeves also have a larger flange. It's not much of a concern if the blocks have already been stressed, but when they are pressed in a new unconditioned block the chances of the sleeves dropping slightly is pretty high. It is now standard practice to condition the steps before pressing in these liners to prevent the high failure rate that was seen early with new blocks.
JL,
I don't have an F body so I can't help you, but yes... I would think it would be a valid concern. I suspect a motor plate would allow a better fit with a taller deck, but I don't know enough about the F body configuration.
FWIW, I believe WP is also working on an intake to fit their tall deck block. I don't think it will be ready when their blocks hit the street, but they are working on something. I can't tell you anything about the height or if it's a single or dual plain intake... maybe they will let the cat out of the bag.
I don't have an F body so I can't help you, but yes... I would think it would be a valid concern. I suspect a motor plate would allow a better fit with a taller deck, but I don't know enough about the F body configuration.
FWIW, I believe WP is also working on an intake to fit their tall deck block. I don't think it will be ready when their blocks hit the street, but they are working on something. I can't tell you anything about the height or if it's a single or dual plain intake... maybe they will let the cat out of the bag.
I'm not too worried about it yet.. I'm looking a couple years down the road at this point. I have a th400 setup I'm still collecting parts for... after that goes in I will have alot of suspension tuning, and weight reduction to do, as well as getting used to leaving off a transbrake with the power I'm already making with my h/c setup... so there's alot to be done before another motor goes in the car. I'm just intrested to see what and if these issues are bringing up, and what the findings are.
If it turns out to be too much of a hassle.. then I may just have my block resleeved and stroked.. I think that I should be able to get into the 430 CI range with that, and most likly I will keep it n/a.. no more then a little 100 shot just for special occasions.... so that being the case, I should be fine with it. I'm only looking to go mid to low 10's on motor with no power adder and running pump gas.... I think that if I can get the car into the 3500 or less range with me in it, that shouldn't be too hard to do. I figure 530 rwhp thru my th400/4500 converter/12 bolt should be enough to get me where I want to be.
In the end.. a mid 10 sec n/a car is what I want. Nothing I have to pull the motor on every year, valvesprings, yeah that's fine. Tranny refreshening, rear end rebuild, fluids, brakes, shocks, all that stuff is fine... I just don't want to be doing a motor rebuild every year.
My thoughts are to go as big on the CI as possible.. the more displacement it has, the less radical the setup will have to be to get to the goals I have in mind, and the less major overhauling I'll have to do to it on a regualr basis.
If it turns out to be too much of a hassle.. then I may just have my block resleeved and stroked.. I think that I should be able to get into the 430 CI range with that, and most likly I will keep it n/a.. no more then a little 100 shot just for special occasions.... so that being the case, I should be fine with it. I'm only looking to go mid to low 10's on motor with no power adder and running pump gas.... I think that if I can get the car into the 3500 or less range with me in it, that shouldn't be too hard to do. I figure 530 rwhp thru my th400/4500 converter/12 bolt should be enough to get me where I want to be.
In the end.. a mid 10 sec n/a car is what I want. Nothing I have to pull the motor on every year, valvesprings, yeah that's fine. Tranny refreshening, rear end rebuild, fluids, brakes, shocks, all that stuff is fine... I just don't want to be doing a motor rebuild every year.
My thoughts are to go as big on the CI as possible.. the more displacement it has, the less radical the setup will have to be to get to the goals I have in mind, and the less major overhauling I'll have to do to it on a regualr basis.
Definately work on that carb style manafold... should I take teh world route, I'll most likly do the block, heads and intake... as it will most likly be the best work together setup.
As for the header sizing.. i figured a 2 inch primary, we are looking at big block displacement, why wouldn't we need big block tube diameters!
As for how that will fit under the hood.... that is a good question. I really wonder if it even will, or if the whole thing will have to be assembled then installed in the car, most likly thru the bottom. Never mind plug changes! These are the things that are going to end up being the deciding factor as to what route I take. I kno wthat 1 7/8 step to 2 inch will fit, and if nothing more will.. then I may end up going with my stock block and some aftermarket head that will fit it. All I'm after is enough n/a power to run 10.30 give or take in a 3500 lb car... so I'm not looking to beat down the world (no pun intended)
As for the header sizing.. i figured a 2 inch primary, we are looking at big block displacement, why wouldn't we need big block tube diameters!
As for how that will fit under the hood.... that is a good question. I really wonder if it even will, or if the whole thing will have to be assembled then installed in the car, most likly thru the bottom. Never mind plug changes! These are the things that are going to end up being the deciding factor as to what route I take. I kno wthat 1 7/8 step to 2 inch will fit, and if nothing more will.. then I may end up going with my stock block and some aftermarket head that will fit it. All I'm after is enough n/a power to run 10.30 give or take in a 3500 lb car... so I'm not looking to beat down the world (no pun intended)
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Collections Removal
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, NY
Chris,
That idea is under consideration at this time , but as the program is just beginning, our focus is getting the big chunks on the market.
We aim to supply the 2 types of blocks, 2 types of heads and hopefully the Dominator carburetor manifold by springtime, the latest.
We'll post word as the program progresses.
Of course, popularity in the market will tell us a lot.
Thanks,
MerlinPro
That idea is under consideration at this time , but as the program is just beginning, our focus is getting the big chunks on the market.
We aim to supply the 2 types of blocks, 2 types of heads and hopefully the Dominator carburetor manifold by springtime, the latest.
We'll post word as the program progresses.
Of course, popularity in the market will tell us a lot.
Thanks,
MerlinPro
Originally Posted by MerlinPro
Chris,
That idea is under consideration at this time , but as the program is just beginning, our focus is getting the big chunks on the market.
We aim to supply the 2 types of blocks, 2 types of heads and hopefully the Dominator carburetor manifold by springtime, the latest.
We'll post word as the program progresses.
Of course, popularity in the market will tell us a lot.
Thanks,
MerlinPro
That idea is under consideration at this time , but as the program is just beginning, our focus is getting the big chunks on the market.
We aim to supply the 2 types of blocks, 2 types of heads and hopefully the Dominator carburetor manifold by springtime, the latest.
We'll post word as the program progresses.
Of course, popularity in the market will tell us a lot.
Thanks,
MerlinPro
Thanks!
Andrew
TECH Addict
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,866
Likes: 4
thanks andrew. be really nice to see these engines go up again the ls7. i think it could be the creat motor to have!!!!! i think it could make a real impact in the kit car/replica/hot rod market!
Merlin Pro, i understand, you got to walk before you can run!
Chris.
Merlin Pro, i understand, you got to walk before you can run!
Chris.
Collections Removal
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, NY
Andrew,
No decision on short / long block offerings yet but market acceptance of the product line will help determine, so I can't give you pricing.
However, short and tall deck blocks range from $3999 to $4199 ( including ARP hardware on the billet main caps and about 35% less than C5R block) and the 12 deg. and 15 deg. heads range from $799 bare to $1134.99 assembled. A Warhawk -specific ARP head stud kit is mandatory for our blocks but hasn't been priced yet.
You can call our sales dept ( 631-981-1918) and request a four page flyer depicting the parts and cut-aways (as illustrated by Warhawk 1) which describes all the tech features. You'll see why it's gonna be bomb proof.
Sniff,
Cast and machined in good 'ole USA. Source this offshore and you'll instantly have 20 competitors on the market with your exact design. No thanks.
Chris,
Hope your thoughts come true.
Yes, even 800 lb. gorillas (also hope) have to take baby steps!
Thank you all for your questions and interest. Warhawk 1 and I will respond as time permits.
Regards,
No decision on short / long block offerings yet but market acceptance of the product line will help determine, so I can't give you pricing.
However, short and tall deck blocks range from $3999 to $4199 ( including ARP hardware on the billet main caps and about 35% less than C5R block) and the 12 deg. and 15 deg. heads range from $799 bare to $1134.99 assembled. A Warhawk -specific ARP head stud kit is mandatory for our blocks but hasn't been priced yet.
You can call our sales dept ( 631-981-1918) and request a four page flyer depicting the parts and cut-aways (as illustrated by Warhawk 1) which describes all the tech features. You'll see why it's gonna be bomb proof.
Sniff,
Cast and machined in good 'ole USA. Source this offshore and you'll instantly have 20 competitors on the market with your exact design. No thanks.
Chris,
Hope your thoughts come true.
Yes, even 800 lb. gorillas (also hope) have to take baby steps!
Thank you all for your questions and interest. Warhawk 1 and I will respond as time permits.
Regards,
TECH Resident
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 881
Likes: 1
What is the max stroke on the World block? Is the limitation deck height, pan width, cam interference, etc.?
Also, it has thick walls and liner. What is the biggest andticipated bore? Could it be re-lined as a 4.2?
Also, it has thick walls and liner. What is the biggest andticipated bore? Could it be re-lined as a 4.2?
LS1TECH Sponsor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Holbrook, NY
David,
The block right now in as cast state can spin a 4.25" stoke with no modification. One of our crank manufacturers is supposed to be providing me with a 4.5" crank. I believe (without actually looking into the matter fully) the counterweight swing is not the real problem, it is the con rod bolts that causes the problem. I have to see if we have the stock to macine a notch for these bolts but also the stock to move the outside oil transfer line out board to leave a safe amount of material. Also I don't have the cam to crank spacing on instant recall either so I would need to investigate that.
4.200"? Well the block could be bored to that no problem, If it were mine would I do that? No. A PART of what I believe makes us better than the competition is sleeve thickness. High horspower users (1400-1700hp) have ballooned cylinders and cracked GM Blocks. Boring it out to 4.200" would make our sleeve .0075" thinner than the other peoples block sleeves (C5R). That would bring us back to a weaker condition. I realize bigger is almost always better but in this case discretion may be the better part of valor...
The block right now in as cast state can spin a 4.25" stoke with no modification. One of our crank manufacturers is supposed to be providing me with a 4.5" crank. I believe (without actually looking into the matter fully) the counterweight swing is not the real problem, it is the con rod bolts that causes the problem. I have to see if we have the stock to macine a notch for these bolts but also the stock to move the outside oil transfer line out board to leave a safe amount of material. Also I don't have the cam to crank spacing on instant recall either so I would need to investigate that.
4.200"? Well the block could be bored to that no problem, If it were mine would I do that? No. A PART of what I believe makes us better than the competition is sleeve thickness. High horspower users (1400-1700hp) have ballooned cylinders and cracked GM Blocks. Boring it out to 4.200" would make our sleeve .0075" thinner than the other peoples block sleeves (C5R). That would bring us back to a weaker condition. I realize bigger is almost always better but in this case discretion may be the better part of valor...
Last edited by Warhawk 1; Jan 26, 2006 at 01:49 PM.
how big would it be at the standard bore with a 4.5 stroke, thats a freaking big *** motor
i wonder how much power could be made, in a streetable setup, id bet you could push 700rwhp easy and drive it around all day long
i wonder how much power could be made, in a streetable setup, id bet you could push 700rwhp easy and drive it around all day long