I didn't know that!Thanks! Sorry.............back on topic. 
SAM's 500" LS2 Project *Progress Pics*
FormerVendor
Joined: Dec 2005
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The ET canted valve heads are very nice. It seams to me that I remember they are advertised to flow over 400 , but I haven't seen where someone has ported on them to see how far they can go. This would be a perfect set-up to handle those heads, but I'm not sure if the rockers still need to be custom or not. It was a very expensive set-up when they first came out, but I haven't checked since.
The guys at S.A.M. " touched up " the LS7 heads as they do before putting them on and reported some pretty healthy numbers. I'm not sure if anyone is taking advantage of the larger bore and unshrouding the valves for big bore heads like this or our std deck height big bore set-up. It would be interesting to see how that affects flow #'s.
The guys at S.A.M. " touched up " the LS7 heads as they do before putting them on and reported some pretty healthy numbers. I'm not sure if anyone is taking advantage of the larger bore and unshrouding the valves for big bore heads like this or our std deck height big bore set-up. It would be interesting to see how that affects flow #'s.
TECH Addict
Joined: Aug 2004
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do you have any dyno graphs for the engine (in any combination)? be nice to see how flat the torque curve was to, say, AmericanHP's 402ls2 with the KB!
i total agree about the "2000bhp" that keeps getting thrown about. so i take it you have real world tested this block to 1500bhp?? was that on N2o or another power adder??
thanks and sorry for all the question.
Chris.
i total agree about the "2000bhp" that keeps getting thrown about. so i take it you have real world tested this block to 1500bhp?? was that on N2o or another power adder??
thanks and sorry for all the question.
Chris.
FormerVendor
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 250
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"We prefer to test to a level before announcing a number, but the FEA has shown good to 1500 if you count on computer analysis."
The 1500 test is a computer analysis using Finite Element Analysis to test a design as in the previous post. FI would be the way to go to achieve power levels in that area. A nitrous motor would have to have a NA baseline in the 900-1000 HP range to achieve that goal with a 600 NOS shot. The static compression will have to be to high to achieve the 2HP/ CI to safely spray that much nitrous on any engine for long. Most of the 2000 HP NOS motors used in the outlaws are 600+ C.I. and some are in the 800+ displacement.
I'm not familiar with the 402 graph, but here is the pump gas, LS7 intake #'s that were posted.
LS2-500 LS2-500, 250 NOS
HP TQ HP TQ
4100 466 597
4200 484 605
4300 505 617
4400 524 626
4500 552 644 552 644
4600 569 650 645 737
4700 581 650 774 865
4800 595 651 827 905
4900 607 651 844 905
5000 619 650 861 904
5100 630 648 876 902
5200 639 646 888 897
5300 649 643 897 889
5400 659 641 902 877
5500 666 636 909 868
5600 673 632 914 857
5700 679 626 919 847
5800 685 621 921 834
5900 691 615 922 821
6000 694 608 922 807
6100 697 600 920 792
6200 700 593 917 777
6300 702 585 913 761
6400 703 576
The 1500 test is a computer analysis using Finite Element Analysis to test a design as in the previous post. FI would be the way to go to achieve power levels in that area. A nitrous motor would have to have a NA baseline in the 900-1000 HP range to achieve that goal with a 600 NOS shot. The static compression will have to be to high to achieve the 2HP/ CI to safely spray that much nitrous on any engine for long. Most of the 2000 HP NOS motors used in the outlaws are 600+ C.I. and some are in the 800+ displacement.
I'm not familiar with the 402 graph, but here is the pump gas, LS7 intake #'s that were posted.
LS2-500 LS2-500, 250 NOS
HP TQ HP TQ
4100 466 597
4200 484 605
4300 505 617
4400 524 626
4500 552 644 552 644
4600 569 650 645 737
4700 581 650 774 865
4800 595 651 827 905
4900 607 651 844 905
5000 619 650 861 904
5100 630 648 876 902
5200 639 646 888 897
5300 649 643 897 889
5400 659 641 902 877
5500 666 636 909 868
5600 673 632 914 857
5700 679 626 919 847
5800 685 621 921 834
5900 691 615 922 821
6000 694 608 922 807
6100 697 600 920 792
6200 700 593 917 777
6300 702 585 913 761
6400 703 576
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 329
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Not to be negative, peak TQ n/a is poor. A well built 408 can put out about 620 peak TQ. A 500CI should be able to get over 700 peak TQ, more about 725.
Peak TQ give idea of if everything is working together. I have no doubt that someone is going to get one of these to over 1000HP n/a. Someone will get a 427CI over 1000HP n/a. So the 500CI should be able to do 1100HP or so.
Peak TQ give idea of if everything is working together. I have no doubt that someone is going to get one of these to over 1000HP n/a. Someone will get a 427CI over 1000HP n/a. So the 500CI should be able to do 1100HP or so.
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Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Quick Carl
Code:
LS2-500 LS2-500, 250 NOS
HP TQ HP TQ
4100 466 597
4200 484 605
4300 505 617
4400 524 626
4500 552 644 552 644
4600 569 650 645 737
4700 581 650 774 865
4800 595 651 827 905
4900 607 651 844 905
5000 619 650 861 904
5100 630 648 876 902
5200 639 646 888 897
5300 649 643 897 889
5400 659 641 902 877
5500 666 636 909 868
5600 673 632 914 857
5700 679 626 919 847
5800 685 621 921 834
5900 691 615 922 821
6000 694 608 922 807
6100 697 600 920 792
6200 700 593 917 777
6300 702 585 913 761
6400 703 576 whenever trying to post something like this, you have you put [/code] [/code] tag around it.
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Verdad Gallardo FormerVendor
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 250
Likes: 1
Thanks 317Indy. That will be a big help when posting in the future. Will that also work on an Adobe file?
This set-up was a MILD NA pump gas, drive anywhere, no Gears, stall converter required, bolt your heads,intake and valvetrain on our short block set-up. It didn't even have a rough idle since the cubes utilized all of the cam. Add a 250 shot and you have over 900 HP and Tq on demand (total sleeper). I'm sure that there will be much wilder set-ups with different components that will be built.
As chuntington101 mentioned that the new 2.8 KB set-up would be nuts from the graphs posted with a 402 set-up. It looks as if it would not have an issue feeding the extra cubes since americanHP stated they had it cut back.
Outlaw Motorsports, I'll find out on the camera. One of the guys here takes the pictures and will be glad to here you like them.
This set-up was a MILD NA pump gas, drive anywhere, no Gears, stall converter required, bolt your heads,intake and valvetrain on our short block set-up. It didn't even have a rough idle since the cubes utilized all of the cam. Add a 250 shot and you have over 900 HP and Tq on demand (total sleeper). I'm sure that there will be much wilder set-ups with different components that will be built.
As chuntington101 mentioned that the new 2.8 KB set-up would be nuts from the graphs posted with a 402 set-up. It looks as if it would not have an issue feeding the extra cubes since americanHP stated they had it cut back.
Outlaw Motorsports, I'll find out on the camera. One of the guys here takes the pictures and will be glad to here you like them.
TECH Addict
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,866
Likes: 4
Quick Carl, i know this is only specualtion, but what do you think a more radical cammed motor could churn out with indavidual throttle boodies? is 900bhp N/A out of reach?
i would love to see one of these motors with some boost! you would only need a few pounds (say 8-9psi) to have a monster on you hands! stick a set of worked LS7 heads on there and a ProCharger/Vortech/trubo(s) and watch it fly!
thanks Chris.
i would love to see one of these motors with some boost! you would only need a few pounds (say 8-9psi) to have a monster on you hands! stick a set of worked LS7 heads on there and a ProCharger/Vortech/trubo(s) and watch it fly!
thanks Chris.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,587
Likes: 1
From: Houston
900 with an all out setup COULD be done but it would take some time. The 500" is getting outfitted for the car currently and I am adding a few more pictures of the motor as well. The ls7 manifold performed very well, as did the sheetmetal, but the sheetmetal is really going to come in handy when we start squeezing the air a lot harder with more compression.
Solid Roller, 7,XXX rpm, 15+:1 Compression, HIGH 800's can be done.
I would personaly love to see an F1/2/3R strapped on one to see what it would throw down as well. Like I have said before, it has been a blast working with ERL on this motor.
Outlaw - Our camera here that I use is a Sony 8.1 mp DSC-V3 Some what aged, but works well!
Solid Roller, 7,XXX rpm, 15+:1 Compression, HIGH 800's can be done.
I would personaly love to see an F1/2/3R strapped on one to see what it would throw down as well. Like I have said before, it has been a blast working with ERL on this motor.
Outlaw - Our camera here that I use is a Sony 8.1 mp DSC-V3 Some what aged, but works well!
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
My thing is this:
427 maxed out with the ET Canted valves 15:1 CR, right cam, header, even with singleplane carb intake and correct carb should be able to rip out about 900HP.
With dual carbs tunnel ram would make 50-75HP over that so about 975HP and about 640TQ.
Now take the 427 bottom end out, replace it with 500CI. That will be worth proportinate TQ increase, so maxed out should see close to 750TQ. On HP it will not be a hp per cube or more increase for just change of the bottom end. There will be some gain, lets say 1/2 HP per cube or 1050HP.
I Believe these numbers.
427 maxed out with the ET Canted valves 15:1 CR, right cam, header, even with singleplane carb intake and correct carb should be able to rip out about 900HP.
With dual carbs tunnel ram would make 50-75HP over that so about 975HP and about 640TQ.
Now take the 427 bottom end out, replace it with 500CI. That will be worth proportinate TQ increase, so maxed out should see close to 750TQ. On HP it will not be a hp per cube or more increase for just change of the bottom end. There will be some gain, lets say 1/2 HP per cube or 1050HP.
I Believe these numbers.
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: philly area
Originally Posted by BigBronco
900 with an all out setup COULD be done but it would take some time. The 500" is getting outfitted for the car currently and I am adding a few more pictures of the motor as well. The ls7 manifold performed very well, as did the sheetmetal, but the sheetmetal is really going to come in handy when we start squeezing the air a lot harder with more compression.
Solid Roller, 7,XXX rpm, 15+:1 Compression, HIGH 800's can be done.
I would personaly love to see an F1/2/3R strapped on one to see what it would throw down as well. Like I have said before, it has been a blast working with ERL on this motor.
Outlaw - Our camera here that I use is a Sony 8.1 mp DSC-V3 Some what aged, but works well!
Solid Roller, 7,XXX rpm, 15+:1 Compression, HIGH 800's can be done.
I would personaly love to see an F1/2/3R strapped on one to see what it would throw down as well. Like I have said before, it has been a blast working with ERL on this motor.
Outlaw - Our camera here that I use is a Sony 8.1 mp DSC-V3 Some what aged, but works well!
hey gray next time you talk to sean over at ERL tell him i said whats up....this is Fran by the way...
FormerVendor
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 191
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From: Indiana
Here is the video link to the ERL Performance 500 ci LS2 being ran on SAM's engine dyno. http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...500ciLS2-1.flv 
FormerVendor
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 250
Likes: 1
I just saw that the ET canted valve set-up is reported to be flowing 430 CFM with a radical solid cam at over 1.00" lift.
Gray and everyone at S.A.M. that worked on this project has been great. After seeing some preliminary results from the max. effort 440" build it shows how well they did with major low dollar pieces by comparison on a streetable pump gas build. It goes to show there's no replacement for displacement in NA motors.
It will be good to see it in the camaro. Post pics. as you can.
Gray and everyone at S.A.M. that worked on this project has been great. After seeing some preliminary results from the max. effort 440" build it shows how well they did with major low dollar pieces by comparison on a streetable pump gas build. It goes to show there's no replacement for displacement in NA motors.
It will be good to see it in the camaro. Post pics. as you can.
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: philly area
Originally Posted by Irish LS1
Fran, are your neighbors causing you any trouble over there?
haha na there all good sean.... we have the photo shoot for joshes car tomorrow so that should be pretty cool.....
FormerVendor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,065
Likes: 6
From: Houston, Tx.
I guess I don't know what you are talking about? Are you talking about real pump gas engines? 1.3 ft pounds of TQ per inch is a good normal pump gas figure and this is right there.
All out race engines make what you are talking about at 1.52 foot pounds per inch! No normal pump gas 408 makes any 620 foot pounds of TQ! Am I missing something earlier? This engine is a lower compression street pump gas engine not a 15 to 1 race engine.
All out race engines make what you are talking about at 1.52 foot pounds per inch! No normal pump gas 408 makes any 620 foot pounds of TQ! Am I missing something earlier? This engine is a lower compression street pump gas engine not a 15 to 1 race engine.
Originally Posted by Big-DEN
Not to be negative, peak TQ n/a is poor. A well built 408 can put out about 620 peak TQ. A 500CI should be able to get over 700 peak TQ, more about 725.
Peak TQ give idea of if everything is working together. I have no doubt that someone is going to get one of these to over 1000HP n/a. Someone will get a 427CI over 1000HP n/a. So the 500CI should be able to do 1100HP or so.
Peak TQ give idea of if everything is working together. I have no doubt that someone is going to get one of these to over 1000HP n/a. Someone will get a 427CI over 1000HP n/a. So the 500CI should be able to do 1100HP or so.
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 35
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From: philly area
Originally Posted by racer7088
I guess I don't know what you are talking about? Are you talking about real pump gas engines? 1.3 ft pounds of TQ per inch is a good normal pump gas figure and this is right there.
All out race engines make what you are talking about at 1.52 foot pounds per inch! No normal pump gas 408 makes any 620 foot pounds of TQ! Am I missing something earlier? This engine is a lower compression street pump gas engine not a 15 to 1 race engine.
All out race engines make what you are talking about at 1.52 foot pounds per inch! No normal pump gas 408 makes any 620 foot pounds of TQ! Am I missing something earlier? This engine is a lower compression street pump gas engine not a 15 to 1 race engine.
tell him erik haha.....