LS7 build up
05-28-2006, 12:23 AM
#22
Originally Posted by SLED28
I see the difference 
Bottom line is, the production LS7 block is not the same as the production LS2 block... no way no how. Yes, according to a trusted source there are indeed non-production variations of the LS2 block floating around with a LS7 casting pad ID (I have not witnessed). So, yes, perhaps someone can produce images of an LS2 block with an LS7 casting pad maybe even with an LS2 block ID #... preproduction and racing team stuff... but certainly not what GM sells over the counter as a crate motor and/or just now a bare block.
I accept the fact that the LS2 block can be taken in by an aftermarket company and made nearly bullet proof. I FULLY and COMPLETELY support such companies that do so... but NOT, I repeat, NOT at the expense of publicly trashing the LS7 block... or telling folks its only the difference in a few drilled holes... and downplaying a block with sleeves (summarizing here) not up to aftermarket standards without empircal performance test data for the specific block and application to suggest such. I accept the fact that some engineering (machined) improvements made on the LS7 can be applied to an LS2.
Originally Posted by blue2002ss06
Well I was planning on boosting my ls1, I came across an LS7 and I need help building it from the block. What all do I need to acheive 550 rwhp?? Also how much would it cost to make it boost ready??? Sorry I am new to the LS2/LS7 place.. Thanks Chase
On the engine project I'm involved with we sent an LS7 production Ti rod to Callies for non-destructive testing and the results were "800" hp no problem. Crank? Rear Wheel? Who knows... we'll find out soon enough.
Bill
Last edited by billreid1@cox.net; 05-28-2006 at 01:04 AM.
05-28-2006, 12:42 AM
#23
Originally Posted by 11 Bravo
What is different between the LS2 and 7 besides the sleeves and casting number? And the core plug lol. I'm not seeing anything that shows the LS7 block is stronger and worth the extra money.
You make a very good point though... the initial price of the LS7 block is just now out. If you can get a quality machined LS2 resleeved block (with better sleeves) for hundreds less than an LS7 block then there is no argument. I've never argued against it (for guys looking for more cubes, even as the LS7 blocks become available)... and I have certainly never tried to down play the signficance of what the aftermarket can do for the LS2 blocks... what I have done is defend the LS7 block on its own initial merits as well as not standing by and watching as (LS2 versus LS7) disinformation is published at the expense of the LS7.
Bill
Last edited by billreid1@cox.net; 05-28-2006 at 01:26 AM.
05-28-2006, 03:33 AM
#24
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It doesnt matter what the difference is. Race Engineering who sleeves LS2/LS7 blocks and Darton themselves have confirmed the considerable strength upgrade with their sleeves over factory LS7 sleeves.
05-28-2006, 11:12 AM
#25
Originally Posted by stang90gt50
It doesnt matter what the difference is. Race Engineering who sleeves LS2/LS7 blocks and Darton themselves have confirmed the considerable strength upgrade with their sleeves over factory LS7 sleeves.
I have never disputed what Darton and Steve can do to improve the strength of the LS2 block... or LS7 block for that matter. Most folks on this forum could take a factory LS2 block and build a great motor with the block and factory sleeves never failing. If one feels more comfortable sleeving either block for additional strength and/or cubes I am certainly not against that. The LS7 is still too new. And like I said before there will be folks that build great motors with them... let the LS7, in its factory form, perform and tell us what it can do. Some initial results from Katech and others messing with cams and additional head porting are very promising.
Bill
05-28-2006, 11:55 AM
#28
Originally Posted by SLED28
Looks like there could be 50-100 thou thicker on the outside of the water jackets making it a little more rigid
I was wondering the same thing too, also in other places. Here's a couple more pics. LS2 has an extra unused tranny bell housing mounting boss. Why would GM remove the boss on the LS7? Maybe it incroached on a redesigned area of the water jacket creating an unreliable stress point? Maybe there were cooling improvments? Just speculating here...
(edit) the more I look at the "tranny bell housing mounting boss" on the LS2 the more it looks like it would not line up with say a turbo 350/400. What is it? Casting vent?
Bill
Last edited by billreid1@cox.net; 05-29-2006 at 03:20 AM.
05-29-2006, 10:31 PM
#31
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So should I forge the ls7 and put the procharger on that, or forged the ls1 and put the procharger on it??? is it worth ripping the ls1 out and throwing the ls7 in?? my ls1 has 38k and the Ls7 has 2300k. 
05-29-2006, 11:54 PM
#32
(edit) my bad - 550 as you stated in your opening post)...
No need to go forced induction with an LS7 to achieve your power goals.
Katech, I believe, has already proven the LS7 pan will fit on the f-body k-member... so you'll need to pick up an oil tank and fab some lines for the dry sump. You will need to change the reluctor wheel on the crank to the older 24x variety. You will need to change the cam sprocket over to the early LS2 style. The reluctor wheel and cam sprocket swaps are necessary unless you are going with an aftermarket computer set up to recognize the newer reluctor wheel and cam sprocket. You will also need to find a harmonic balancer that will line up with your f-body accessory drive. Katech, I believe, modified an ATI balancer to work with the LS7's longer snout crank and the f-body's accessory drive. But I don't remember if they had plans on offering those modified balancers. You can always call Katech and ask. You can also ask ATI if have or will come out with something soon. This is important... otherwise you would need to consider perhaps a C5 corvette accessory drive and/or dumping the dry sump. Although I must admit I have never tried to see if a C5 accessory drive will fit properly in the f-body engine bay and not interfere with anything. If you dump the dry sump then you will need to have the LS7 block's dip stick boss machined to accept a dip stick/sleeve... and then use an f-body pan.
You can always sell the LS7 and that would finance a bad *** LS1 long block for sure.
One thing is for certain it will take more effort to retrofit an LS7, with its dry sump, into your Camaro as compared to installing a beefed up LS1. I am not trying to steer you away from the LS7... just inform you of the extra effort.
Bill
No need to go forced induction with an LS7 to achieve your power goals.
Katech, I believe, has already proven the LS7 pan will fit on the f-body k-member... so you'll need to pick up an oil tank and fab some lines for the dry sump. You will need to change the reluctor wheel on the crank to the older 24x variety. You will need to change the cam sprocket over to the early LS2 style. The reluctor wheel and cam sprocket swaps are necessary unless you are going with an aftermarket computer set up to recognize the newer reluctor wheel and cam sprocket. You will also need to find a harmonic balancer that will line up with your f-body accessory drive. Katech, I believe, modified an ATI balancer to work with the LS7's longer snout crank and the f-body's accessory drive. But I don't remember if they had plans on offering those modified balancers. You can always call Katech and ask. You can also ask ATI if have or will come out with something soon. This is important... otherwise you would need to consider perhaps a C5 corvette accessory drive and/or dumping the dry sump. Although I must admit I have never tried to see if a C5 accessory drive will fit properly in the f-body engine bay and not interfere with anything. If you dump the dry sump then you will need to have the LS7 block's dip stick boss machined to accept a dip stick/sleeve... and then use an f-body pan.
You can always sell the LS7 and that would finance a bad *** LS1 long block for sure.
One thing is for certain it will take more effort to retrofit an LS7, with its dry sump, into your Camaro as compared to installing a beefed up LS1. I am not trying to steer you away from the LS7... just inform you of the extra effort.
Bill
Last edited by billreid1@cox.net; 05-30-2006 at 12:35 AM.
if you have the whole engine they make 545-600rwhp Na
05-30-2006, 09:00 AM
#34
Originally Posted by billreid1@***.net
(edit) my bad - 550 as you stated in your opening post)...
No need to go forced induction with an LS7 to achieve your power goals.
Katech, I believe, has already proven the LS7 pan will fit on the f-body k-member... so you'll need to pick up an oil tank and fab some lines for the dry sump. You will need to change the reluctor wheel on the crank to the older 24x variety. You will need to change the cam sprocket over to the early LS2 style. The reluctor wheel and cam sprocket swaps are necessary unless you are going with an aftermarket computer set up to recognize the newer reluctor wheel and cam sprocket. You will also need to find a harmonic balancer that will line up with your f-body accessory drive. Katech, I believe, modified an ATI balancer to work with the LS7's longer snout crank and the f-body's accessory drive. But I don't remember if they had plans on offering those modified balancers. You can always call Katech and ask. You can also ask ATI if have or will come out with something soon. This is important... otherwise you would need to consider perhaps a C5 corvette accessory drive and/or dumping the dry sump. Although I must admit I have never tried to see if a C5 accessory drive will fit properly in the f-body engine bay and not interfere with anything. If you dump the dry sump then you will need to have the LS7 block's dip stick boss machined to accept a dip stick/sleeve... and then use an f-body pan.
You can always sell the LS7 and that would finance a bad *** LS1 long block for sure.
One thing is for certain it will take more effort to retrofit an LS7, with its dry sump, into your Camaro as compared to installing a beefed up LS1. I am not trying to steer you away from the LS7... just inform you of the extra effort.
Bill
No need to go forced induction with an LS7 to achieve your power goals.
Katech, I believe, has already proven the LS7 pan will fit on the f-body k-member... so you'll need to pick up an oil tank and fab some lines for the dry sump. You will need to change the reluctor wheel on the crank to the older 24x variety. You will need to change the cam sprocket over to the early LS2 style. The reluctor wheel and cam sprocket swaps are necessary unless you are going with an aftermarket computer set up to recognize the newer reluctor wheel and cam sprocket. You will also need to find a harmonic balancer that will line up with your f-body accessory drive. Katech, I believe, modified an ATI balancer to work with the LS7's longer snout crank and the f-body's accessory drive. But I don't remember if they had plans on offering those modified balancers. You can always call Katech and ask. You can also ask ATI if have or will come out with something soon. This is important... otherwise you would need to consider perhaps a C5 corvette accessory drive and/or dumping the dry sump. Although I must admit I have never tried to see if a C5 accessory drive will fit properly in the f-body engine bay and not interfere with anything. If you dump the dry sump then you will need to have the LS7 block's dip stick boss machined to accept a dip stick/sleeve... and then use an f-body pan.
You can always sell the LS7 and that would finance a bad *** LS1 long block for sure.
One thing is for certain it will take more effort to retrofit an LS7, with its dry sump, into your Camaro as compared to installing a beefed up LS1. I am not trying to steer you away from the LS7... just inform you of the extra effort.
Bill
We are using a BMR K-member and it just BARELY clears. I don't think it will clear the production f-body k-member. We don't have any plans on selling the modified ATI damper, but will take inquiries on a case-by-case basis.
05-30-2006, 11:49 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by billreid1@***.net
(edit) my bad - 550 as you stated in your opening post)...
No need to go forced induction with an LS7 to achieve your power goals.
Katech, I believe, has already proven the LS7 pan will fit on the f-body k-member... so you'll need to pick up an oil tank and fab some lines for the dry sump. You will need to change the reluctor wheel on the crank to the older 24x variety. You will need to change the cam sprocket over to the early LS2 style. The reluctor wheel and cam sprocket swaps are necessary unless you are going with an aftermarket computer set up to recognize the newer reluctor wheel and cam sprocket. You will also need to find a harmonic balancer that will line up with your f-body accessory drive. Katech, I believe, modified an ATI balancer to work with the LS7's longer snout crank and the f-body's accessory drive. But I don't remember if they had plans on offering those modified balancers. You can always call Katech and ask. You can also ask ATI if have or will come out with something soon. This is important... otherwise you would need to consider perhaps a C5 corvette accessory drive and/or dumping the dry sump. Although I must admit I have never tried to see if a C5 accessory drive will fit properly in the f-body engine bay and not interfere with anything. If you dump the dry sump then you will need to have the LS7 block's dip stick boss machined to accept a dip stick/sleeve... and then use an f-body pan.
You can always sell the LS7 and that would finance a bad *** LS1 long block for sure.
One thing is for certain it will take more effort to retrofit an LS7, with its dry sump, into your Camaro as compared to installing a beefed up LS1. I am not trying to steer you away from the LS7... just inform you of the extra effort.
Bill
No need to go forced induction with an LS7 to achieve your power goals.
Katech, I believe, has already proven the LS7 pan will fit on the f-body k-member... so you'll need to pick up an oil tank and fab some lines for the dry sump. You will need to change the reluctor wheel on the crank to the older 24x variety. You will need to change the cam sprocket over to the early LS2 style. The reluctor wheel and cam sprocket swaps are necessary unless you are going with an aftermarket computer set up to recognize the newer reluctor wheel and cam sprocket. You will also need to find a harmonic balancer that will line up with your f-body accessory drive. Katech, I believe, modified an ATI balancer to work with the LS7's longer snout crank and the f-body's accessory drive. But I don't remember if they had plans on offering those modified balancers. You can always call Katech and ask. You can also ask ATI if have or will come out with something soon. This is important... otherwise you would need to consider perhaps a C5 corvette accessory drive and/or dumping the dry sump. Although I must admit I have never tried to see if a C5 accessory drive will fit properly in the f-body engine bay and not interfere with anything. If you dump the dry sump then you will need to have the LS7 block's dip stick boss machined to accept a dip stick/sleeve... and then use an f-body pan.
You can always sell the LS7 and that would finance a bad *** LS1 long block for sure.
One thing is for certain it will take more effort to retrofit an LS7, with its dry sump, into your Camaro as compared to installing a beefed up LS1. I am not trying to steer you away from the LS7... just inform you of the extra effort.
Bill
Yah but this is just to hold me off until I get a DD then I am going to transfer the SS into a track car.
05-30-2006, 12:03 PM
#36
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so if a guy lets say can do most of the work himself (without doing the sleeving and other techical work) how much would it cost(and who would he talk to if he were in California) to take an 01 ls1 and make it as close to an ls7 as he could?
