Ls5?
Staging Lane
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: Apache Junction, AZ
Originally Posted by zigroid
GM never fails to impress me.
one question, where do the spark plugs go?
one question, where do the spark plugs go?
3 valve heads have been around for ages
hell audi/vw used a 5v design on thier 1.8's(5v/ cyl) i think the v8's used it also
this is just one step closer to gm making DOHC engines for v8's
tho does not the new mustang also use the 3v design
Tech Resident
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,117
Likes: 3
From: Philly
i bet this will go in the new top dog camaro, not the LS7 like so many people are predicting. it'll still be powerful enough to take the GT500 (assuming the new camaro is not a pig like the shelby and the gearing is correct), while maintaining the corvette ZO6's highest horsepower rating.
Originally Posted by thelostartof
3 valve heads have been around for ages
hell audi/vw used a 5v design on thier 1.8's(5v/ cyl) i think the v8's used it also
this is just one step closer to gm making DOHC engines for v8's
tho does not the new mustang also use the 3v design
hell audi/vw used a 5v design on thier 1.8's(5v/ cyl) i think the v8's used it also
this is just one step closer to gm making DOHC engines for v8's
tho does not the new mustang also use the 3v design
I don't think I like it too much. We ould lose may of our packaging advantages. This new head is a whole lot wider than Gen 3/4 heads. My guess is that the bore requirements woulod also be pretty large. JMHO
Originally Posted by Cop Car
do you know if it will fit on the other LSx blocks. or only on LS5s block?
also, do you know the minium bore required for this head?
also, do you know the minium bore required for this head?
I can't talk about it. You have to wait for GM to release info.
Staging Lane
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: Apache Junction, AZ
Originally Posted by Stang's Bane
Yes the new mustang does use 3v per cylinder. However it is an ohc design. Am I the only one that thinks the rocker setup to the exhaust valve looks a little iffy?
the exhaust side looks like it has another smaller pushrod in place ... should be ok ..
and yes the ford design is ohc. tho many older cars used nearly the same setup
i swear last time i was @ the local MS i saw a pushrod 3v head for what looked like a 1.5L engine, almost this same design just had a huge rocker in place of the pushrod they are using here for the exhaust
Since the exhaust valves and ports are facing forward as shown in the picture, the spark plugs would be on this side of the heads, not on the inboard side. Now, beginning at the head bolt to the far left, then look just above and to the right is the recess for the spark plug. The plugs are in that position for all four cylinders. This rocker arm arrangement is similar to the new Chrysler Hemi Heads.
I'd say that these heads are on the 4.4 inch centers of the Gen III/IV Small Block. As a manufacturer, you want to develop an open-ended architecture that can be expanded upon and use as many of the existing parts/modules/assemblies and processes as possible. This is how you make profit by perfecting the wheel you have and not constantly reinventing a new wheel.
One fundamental thing about engines is that the power gains to be made lie mostly in volumetric efficiency and this is largely in the heads, then the intake and exhaust manifold. Real-time electronic control for mixture and spark is already in place. If you add variable valve timing to tailor the valve events and displacement on demand to volumetric efficiency, tremendous gains can be harvested and still have performance.
I like this concept! It looks like the valves are canted a bit, hemi-fashion.
Steve
I'd say that these heads are on the 4.4 inch centers of the Gen III/IV Small Block. As a manufacturer, you want to develop an open-ended architecture that can be expanded upon and use as many of the existing parts/modules/assemblies and processes as possible. This is how you make profit by perfecting the wheel you have and not constantly reinventing a new wheel.
One fundamental thing about engines is that the power gains to be made lie mostly in volumetric efficiency and this is largely in the heads, then the intake and exhaust manifold. Real-time electronic control for mixture and spark is already in place. If you add variable valve timing to tailor the valve events and displacement on demand to volumetric efficiency, tremendous gains can be harvested and still have performance.
I like this concept! It looks like the valves are canted a bit, hemi-fashion.
Steve
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Adkoonerstrator
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 21,420
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From: Deep in the seedy underworld of Koonerville
Originally Posted by Supernoma
In case anyone was wondering what they look like
470 is great, but... where's the torque 
. I don't want to see chevy turn into another all rev's and no torque company, we've allready got euro's for that. I guess we'll see how they do when/if they come out, but as is i'm a little hesitant to jump onto this bandwagon.
. I don't want to see chevy turn into another all rev's and no torque company, we've allready got euro's for that. I guess we'll see how they do when/if they come out, but as is i'm a little hesitant to jump onto this bandwagon. 
There was a lot of discussion about the "horizontal" link on the exhaust rocker. 
Originally Posted by transAm-98
470 is great, but... where's the torque . I don't want to see chevy turn into another all rev's and no torque company, we've allready got euro's for that. I guess we'll see how they do when/if they come out, but as is i'm a little hesitant to jump onto this bandwagon.
. I don't want to see chevy turn into another all rev's and no torque company, we've allready got euro's for that. I guess we'll see how they do when/if they come out, but as is i'm a little hesitant to jump onto this bandwagon.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,017
Likes: 0
From: Laguna Niguel, CA
Ill bet it has to do with he high RPM peak HP.
A LS2 peaks HP at about 5600-5900RPM, and has peak torque at around 4300-4500RPM. Look at the specs on this new motor(6700 RPM HP peak). When ever you have a higher RPM peak HP, you generally see smaller torque numbers.
This is because you don't need a much torque at higher RPMs to make the same amount of HP.
And all the above depends head flow and VE of the engine.
I'll bet this motor, in the same Cubic Inches as an LS2, makes less low end torque(grunt) than our beloved LSx platfrom.
If I am wrong on anything, let me know. I only have $.02.
A LS2 peaks HP at about 5600-5900RPM, and has peak torque at around 4300-4500RPM. Look at the specs on this new motor(6700 RPM HP peak). When ever you have a higher RPM peak HP, you generally see smaller torque numbers.
This is because you don't need a much torque at higher RPMs to make the same amount of HP.
And all the above depends head flow and VE of the engine.
I'll bet this motor, in the same Cubic Inches as an LS2, makes less low end torque(grunt) than our beloved LSx platfrom.
If I am wrong on anything, let me know. I only have $.02.
now with 3 valves instead of two could we use "less" cam yet wind the engine higher with a broader torque curve due to more curtain area?
would it require less spring pressure to turn the same rpm as a 2 valve head?
would it require less spring pressure to turn the same rpm as a 2 valve head?
Originally Posted by transAm-98
470 is great, but... where's the torque . I don't want to see chevy turn into another all rev's and no torque company, we've allready got euro's for that. I guess we'll see how they do when/if they come out, but as is i'm a little hesitant to jump onto this bandwagon.
. I don't want to see chevy turn into another all rev's and no torque company, we've allready got euro's for that. I guess we'll see how they do when/if they come out, but as is i'm a little hesitant to jump onto this bandwagon.lets not forget that 380lbs-ft of torque is not low. it may not be as close to the hp as we are used to but its not like it doesnt have any torque, now ifi t was 470/300 then we kinda have to worry...
I do not see these heads as a simple "plug and play" upgrade to our motors. Almost everything is different. The injector bosses are in the heads, headers bolt up differently, etc. Yes they may be on the same bore centers, but a sbc is on same bore centers also. Could this be Gen 5 motor and not a LS5? Like was posted above " just my opinion, cuz I only have $.02."
Tech Resident
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,117
Likes: 3
From: Philly
Originally Posted by transAm-98
470 is great, but... where's the torque . I don't want to see chevy turn into another all rev's and no torque company, we've allready got euro's for that. I guess we'll see how they do when/if they come out, but as is i'm a little hesitant to jump onto this bandwagon.
. I don't want to see chevy turn into another all rev's and no torque company, we've allready got euro's for that. I guess we'll see how they do when/if they come out, but as is i'm a little hesitant to jump onto this bandwagon.
that powerband is perfect for those extentions.