402 L92/L76 is on the road
12-03-2006, 10:16 PM
#62
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Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
LOL now that's funny, you CAN'T share your opinion on a sponsors products if you have a educated opinion, so why should someone give out free info???? There is no way that this place is a FREE sharing of information and opinions and never will be if anyone is paying to "sponsor" here.
So using this forum for free R&D by getting free cam specs is ok? Anyone who uses this place for free R&D is a moron, period. We could do like we did before and just give out bogus specs and you would all eat it up as gospel, nobody says that doesn't happen a lot.
This place is an anomaly in the world of engines, where cam specs matter more than performance or engine output not to mention the average torque output, idle quality and drivabily. 
Bret
Bret
12-03-2006, 11:55 PM
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this has gotten way out of hand.. granted, i want to know what it puts down, a lot of you do. i think this whole thread just falls under: "if you dont have anything nice to say then just shut the **** up." while id also like to know all the specs, i can understand the veil of secrecy. its still not going to keep me or anyone else here from being curious about the setup.
do i agree with the whole secrecy game (lets be honest in any industry, this is just a complicated game) outside of professional racing? not really... but theres no point in bitching about it, even if they are sponsors. should they be banned? haha..no. LGM has a lot of useful info and parts... the racing vids are cool too.. so to say they dont share info is just ignorant. even sstrokerace, while comming off as somewht of an ******* instead of just leaving well enough alone, does share a stupid amount of information with this community, some of which at the moment gives me a headache. all of which has been greatly informative and useful to those that like to try to advance their enthusiasm in this hobby. guys, chill out, bickering about this just isnt worth it whether you agree or not.
do i agree with the whole secrecy game (lets be honest in any industry, this is just a complicated game) outside of professional racing? not really... but theres no point in bitching about it, even if they are sponsors. should they be banned? haha..no. LGM has a lot of useful info and parts... the racing vids are cool too.. so to say they dont share info is just ignorant. even sstrokerace, while comming off as somewht of an ******* instead of just leaving well enough alone, does share a stupid amount of information with this community, some of which at the moment gives me a headache. all of which has been greatly informative and useful to those that like to try to advance their enthusiasm in this hobby. guys, chill out, bickering about this just isnt worth it whether you agree or not.
12-04-2006, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Forteen3GT
Louis... this is apples and oranges. You have a real business with many wannabe's and copycats. This is a single and first of its kind engine build. Keeping this info a 
is simply being arrogant IMO. While they pat eachother on the back and congratulate for a job well done after pulling a stock car by 10 lengths, we are sitting here wondering if the cam they selected was even equivelent to a typical 402 car. I for one am anxious to see dyno and track times...... but I am sure only time will tell what this setup will do.
One thing is for sure, WE ALL GREATLY APPRECIATE this thread in its wealth of information and having the first of the sort with this setup keep the heart of the engine (the camshaft) on the down low.
Meanwhile, hopefully you or TSP or another parts distributor/manufacturer will get some numbers out on these new GM products. It would be nice for those of us building L92 combos to not have to swap cams or spend our own money for the R&D to get the right setup......... I assume that is what we all pay YOUR companies to do??? By the way...... I would buy a lugnut from you....
is simply being arrogant IMO. While they pat eachother on the back and congratulate for a job well done after pulling a stock car by 10 lengths, we are sitting here wondering if the cam they selected was even equivelent to a typical 402 car. I for one am anxious to see dyno and track times...... but I am sure only time will tell what this setup will do. One thing is for sure, WE ALL GREATLY APPRECIATE this thread in its wealth of information and having the first of the sort with this setup keep the heart of the engine (the camshaft) on the down low.
Meanwhile, hopefully you or TSP or another parts distributor/manufacturer will get some numbers out on these new GM products. It would be nice for those of us building L92 combos to not have to swap cams or spend our own money for the R&D to get the right setup......... I assume that is what we all pay YOUR companies to do??? By the way...... I would buy a lugnut from you....
12-04-2006, 01:30 AM
#66
I am sure no cares but here is my two cents. When I see people guess and put combos together on their own it most of the time is crap. This dyno racing gets out of hand on here. This is their job to build motors, spec cams, and such thats what you pay them for. I would not tell you to do a job and not pay you. Why should they? If he wants to keep his cam specs a secret thats his choice not yours. It is his money and time that produced it. If you want the specs buy his cam. Dont be a cheap ***.
12-04-2006, 02:44 AM
#67
Well, this is a very interesting study in human behaviour if anything. It's interesting to see the reactions of both people who are pro and con on divulging cam specs.
Honestly it all depends on where you are coming from, and at the same time says a lot about you to potential vendors. Trust me if a vendor can prevent from selling to some of the people in this thread because it will be all headaches and whining they will. Then again most guys who are the better customers trust people and how they run their shops to do what is right for them. In the end that's what they BOTH want. Lord knows I choose who I want to work with, not the other way around. (maybe my personal policies reflect this as well, hmmmm)
I've worked with everyone from individuals such as Kevin to race engine builders and head porters on cams and valvetrains. Some guys reguardless if it's a high 300's FLYWHEEL circle track motor or a monster 1000hp drag motor will not tell you cam specs. Other shops who have VERY good names will never ever sell to you again if you let another shop open up "their" motor, due to a lot of "SECRETS" that are just given up when you do so.
That could be and has been the difference in going from a winning season to a losing season, by having the right guy build OR NOT build your motor. (or chassis)
Some places like Reher Morrison will give you the cam specs to every motor they make for sportsman racing. I've even seen them publish Pro Stock cam specs. There are also guys like Erik Koenig who teach at SAM that cams aren't a secret.... I respect them for doing all of that, but even these guys will tell you that the LS world Is WAY TO WRAPED UP IN SPECS and doesn't care about performance as much as the numbers on the card or in their sig.
The funny part is I haven't seen any of this put a new view on ANY cams that are readily available to you guys, and it never will. The only guy out there who is doing anything different than the normal is Futral because they use a different place to grind their cams than everyone else. There are other shops but you don't hear as much about them as you would the F13, G5X4, TRex or MS4 or whatever threads that constantly clutter the bandwidth daily. For the most part everything is a combination of LSK, XE-R etc... lobes on a 112 LSA +/- 2° with varing philosophies on the amount of split and pretty much a similar IVC. You really can't screw up much with a intake manifold that has that much runner length in this RPM band, but man I do see a lot of stuff that gets smoked by a stock cam from idle to 4500rpm and people call these driveable and "fun" to use daily. Give me a break. That's only usefull for bragging rights on who makes the most rwhp AND drag racing with huge converters..... but in the end that's what sells more parts and STROKES egos.
I guess all of this also has a place since if what makes a guy happy is that his motor makes a magic number on a dyno, he spent that much money he should get those results that everyone else tries to achive. He might drive the car to work a bunch less, not take his wife out in the car because she doesn't like the bucking and lopey idle or might not drive it long trips in the summer.... that's his sacrafice for having that "number" that makes him feel good relative to other guys on the internet. If you want to stick to that same game, then you have all the tools here to do so.
One bad thing about our country is that we are infatuated with money and bling.... and in the end all that adds up to is numbers.... which is why cam specs and peak HP numbers are all that matters here.... so that guys can fill up their sigs with something. Hell lets start putting up bank account numbers and measurements of our ***** (or breast sizes for the other sex) in the sigs here, it would be about as meaningfull.
There is a great section here for the drag racing guys who care about ET numbers, which in reality do count a bunch more than peak rwhp numbers, but not as much as beating the guy in the lane NEXT to them, not across the country. Then again the other half of the board is interested in what gets them around the block faster or gets their heart pumping on the way to work everyday.
Enjoy your life and your car for what YOU want it to be, not what you think or feel makes others admire you more. In the end running your life (or shop) the way you want to is the key in the long run. Hell if we all did this then there would be less "shops" with pimped out shop cars paid for with other peoples money and parts that was ripped off of them and a big mess is left for the board to clean up.
Otherwise, STFU and stop jamming your view of meaningless BS down everyones throat.... and if you want to learn about cam specs GO OPEN A BOOK/WEBSITE AND READ, buy some cams, build a motor or two and run them on the dyno and track. Untill then STOP CRYING, I'll teach you how to fish but I'm not casting the line in the ocean for you!
Bret
Honestly it all depends on where you are coming from, and at the same time says a lot about you to potential vendors. Trust me if a vendor can prevent from selling to some of the people in this thread because it will be all headaches and whining they will. Then again most guys who are the better customers trust people and how they run their shops to do what is right for them. In the end that's what they BOTH want. Lord knows I choose who I want to work with, not the other way around. (maybe my personal policies reflect this as well, hmmmm)
I've worked with everyone from individuals such as Kevin to race engine builders and head porters on cams and valvetrains. Some guys reguardless if it's a high 300's FLYWHEEL circle track motor or a monster 1000hp drag motor will not tell you cam specs. Other shops who have VERY good names will never ever sell to you again if you let another shop open up "their" motor, due to a lot of "SECRETS" that are just given up when you do so.
That could be and has been the difference in going from a winning season to a losing season, by having the right guy build OR NOT build your motor. (or chassis)
Some places like Reher Morrison will give you the cam specs to every motor they make for sportsman racing. I've even seen them publish Pro Stock cam specs. There are also guys like Erik Koenig who teach at SAM that cams aren't a secret.... I respect them for doing all of that, but even these guys will tell you that the LS world Is WAY TO WRAPED UP IN SPECS and doesn't care about performance as much as the numbers on the card or in their sig.
The funny part is I haven't seen any of this put a new view on ANY cams that are readily available to you guys, and it never will. The only guy out there who is doing anything different than the normal is Futral because they use a different place to grind their cams than everyone else. There are other shops but you don't hear as much about them as you would the F13, G5X4, TRex or MS4 or whatever threads that constantly clutter the bandwidth daily. For the most part everything is a combination of LSK, XE-R etc... lobes on a 112 LSA +/- 2° with varing philosophies on the amount of split and pretty much a similar IVC. You really can't screw up much with a intake manifold that has that much runner length in this RPM band, but man I do see a lot of stuff that gets smoked by a stock cam from idle to 4500rpm and people call these driveable and "fun" to use daily. Give me a break. That's only usefull for bragging rights on who makes the most rwhp AND drag racing with huge converters..... but in the end that's what sells more parts and STROKES egos.
I guess all of this also has a place since if what makes a guy happy is that his motor makes a magic number on a dyno, he spent that much money he should get those results that everyone else tries to achive. He might drive the car to work a bunch less, not take his wife out in the car because she doesn't like the bucking and lopey idle or might not drive it long trips in the summer.... that's his sacrafice for having that "number" that makes him feel good relative to other guys on the internet. If you want to stick to that same game, then you have all the tools here to do so.
One bad thing about our country is that we are infatuated with money and bling.... and in the end all that adds up to is numbers.... which is why cam specs and peak HP numbers are all that matters here.... so that guys can fill up their sigs with something. Hell lets start putting up bank account numbers and measurements of our ***** (or breast sizes for the other sex) in the sigs here, it would be about as meaningfull.
There is a great section here for the drag racing guys who care about ET numbers, which in reality do count a bunch more than peak rwhp numbers, but not as much as beating the guy in the lane NEXT to them, not across the country. Then again the other half of the board is interested in what gets them around the block faster or gets their heart pumping on the way to work everyday.
Enjoy your life and your car for what YOU want it to be, not what you think or feel makes others admire you more. In the end running your life (or shop) the way you want to is the key in the long run. Hell if we all did this then there would be less "shops" with pimped out shop cars paid for with other peoples money and parts that was ripped off of them and a big mess is left for the board to clean up.
Otherwise, STFU and stop jamming your view of meaningless BS down everyones throat.... and if you want to learn about cam specs GO OPEN A BOOK/WEBSITE AND READ, buy some cams, build a motor or two and run them on the dyno and track. Untill then STOP CRYING, I'll teach you how to fish but I'm not casting the line in the ocean for you!
Bret
12-04-2006, 07:02 AM
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Hey Bret, I have never met you... but after reading your philosophy of life, I like you already.
I have to admit I like seeing the numbers on a dyno... but it really is only to validate the smile on my face every time I hammer the vette. Mind you, I enjoy my 315 Pirelli Pzeros as much as my engine...
I have to admit I like seeing the numbers on a dyno... but it really is only to validate the smile on my face every time I hammer the vette. Mind you, I enjoy my 315 Pirelli Pzeros as much as my engine...
12-04-2006, 07:47 AM
#69
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Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
Well, this is a very interesting study in human behaviour if anything. It's interesting to see the reactions of both people who are pro and con on divulging cam specs.
Honestly it all depends on where you are coming from, and at the same time says a lot about you to potential vendors. Trust me if a vendor can prevent from selling to some of the people in this thread because it will be all headaches and whining they will. Then again most guys who are the better customers trust people and how they run their shops to do what is right for them. In the end that's what they BOTH want. Lord knows I choose who I want to work with, not the other way around. (maybe my personal policies reflect this as well, hmmmm)
I've worked with everyone from individuals such as Kevin to race engine builders and head porters on cams and valvetrains. Some guys reguardless if it's a high 300's FLYWHEEL circle track motor or a monster 1000hp drag motor will not tell you cam specs. Other shops who have VERY good names will never ever sell to you again if you let another shop open up "their" motor, due to a lot of "SECRETS" that are just given up when you do so.
That could be and has been the difference in going from a winning season to a losing season, by having the right guy build OR NOT build your motor. (or chassis)
Some places like Reher Morrison will give you the cam specs to every motor they make for sportsman racing. I've even seen them publish Pro Stock cam specs. There are also guys like Erik Koenig who teach at SAM that cams aren't a secret.... I respect them for doing all of that, but even these guys will tell you that the LS world Is WAY TO WRAPED UP IN SPECS and doesn't care about performance as much as the numbers on the card or in their sig.
The funny part is I haven't seen any of this put a new view on ANY cams that are readily available to you guys, and it never will. The only guy out there who is doing anything different than the normal is Futral because they use a different place to grind their cams than everyone else. There are other shops but you don't hear as much about them as you would the F13, G5X4, TRex or MS4 or whatever threads that constantly clutter the bandwidth daily. For the most part everything is a combination of LSK, XE-R etc... lobes on a 112 LSA +/- 2° with varing philosophies on the amount of split and pretty much a similar IVC. You really can't screw up much with a intake manifold that has that much runner length in this RPM band, but man I do see a lot of stuff that gets smoked by a stock cam from idle to 4500rpm and people call these driveable and "fun" to use daily. Give me a break. That's only usefull for bragging rights on who makes the most rwhp AND drag racing with huge converters..... but in the end that's what sells more parts and STROKES egos.
I guess all of this also has a place since if what makes a guy happy is that his motor makes a magic number on a dyno, he spent that much money he should get those results that everyone else tries to achive. He might drive the car to work a bunch less, not take his wife out in the car because she doesn't like the bucking and lopey idle or might not drive it long trips in the summer.... that's his sacrafice for having that "number" that makes him feel good relative to other guys on the internet. If you want to stick to that same game, then you have all the tools here to do so.
One bad thing about our country is that we are infatuated with money and bling.... and in the end all that adds up to is numbers.... which is why cam specs and peak HP numbers are all that matters here.... so that guys can fill up their sigs with something. Hell lets start putting up bank account numbers and measurements of our ***** (or breast sizes for the other sex) in the sigs here, it would be about as meaningfull.
There is a great section here for the drag racing guys who care about ET numbers, which in reality do count a bunch more than peak rwhp numbers, but not as much as beating the guy in the lane NEXT to them, not across the country. Then again the other half of the board is interested in what gets them around the block faster or gets their heart pumping on the way to work everyday.
Enjoy your life and your car for what YOU want it to be, not what you think or feel makes others admire you more. In the end running your life (or shop) the way you want to is the key in the long run. Hell if we all did this then there would be less "shops" with pimped out shop cars paid for with other peoples money and parts that was ripped off of them and a big mess is left for the board to clean up.
Otherwise, STFU and stop jamming your view of meaningless BS down everyones throat.... and if you want to learn about cam specs GO OPEN A BOOK/WEBSITE AND READ, buy some cams, build a motor or two and run them on the dyno and track. Untill then STOP CRYING, I'll teach you how to fish but I'm not casting the line in the ocean for you!
Bret
Honestly it all depends on where you are coming from, and at the same time says a lot about you to potential vendors. Trust me if a vendor can prevent from selling to some of the people in this thread because it will be all headaches and whining they will. Then again most guys who are the better customers trust people and how they run their shops to do what is right for them. In the end that's what they BOTH want. Lord knows I choose who I want to work with, not the other way around. (maybe my personal policies reflect this as well, hmmmm)
I've worked with everyone from individuals such as Kevin to race engine builders and head porters on cams and valvetrains. Some guys reguardless if it's a high 300's FLYWHEEL circle track motor or a monster 1000hp drag motor will not tell you cam specs. Other shops who have VERY good names will never ever sell to you again if you let another shop open up "their" motor, due to a lot of "SECRETS" that are just given up when you do so.
That could be and has been the difference in going from a winning season to a losing season, by having the right guy build OR NOT build your motor. (or chassis)
Some places like Reher Morrison will give you the cam specs to every motor they make for sportsman racing. I've even seen them publish Pro Stock cam specs. There are also guys like Erik Koenig who teach at SAM that cams aren't a secret.... I respect them for doing all of that, but even these guys will tell you that the LS world Is WAY TO WRAPED UP IN SPECS and doesn't care about performance as much as the numbers on the card or in their sig.
The funny part is I haven't seen any of this put a new view on ANY cams that are readily available to you guys, and it never will. The only guy out there who is doing anything different than the normal is Futral because they use a different place to grind their cams than everyone else. There are other shops but you don't hear as much about them as you would the F13, G5X4, TRex or MS4 or whatever threads that constantly clutter the bandwidth daily. For the most part everything is a combination of LSK, XE-R etc... lobes on a 112 LSA +/- 2° with varing philosophies on the amount of split and pretty much a similar IVC. You really can't screw up much with a intake manifold that has that much runner length in this RPM band, but man I do see a lot of stuff that gets smoked by a stock cam from idle to 4500rpm and people call these driveable and "fun" to use daily. Give me a break. That's only usefull for bragging rights on who makes the most rwhp AND drag racing with huge converters..... but in the end that's what sells more parts and STROKES egos.
I guess all of this also has a place since if what makes a guy happy is that his motor makes a magic number on a dyno, he spent that much money he should get those results that everyone else tries to achive. He might drive the car to work a bunch less, not take his wife out in the car because she doesn't like the bucking and lopey idle or might not drive it long trips in the summer.... that's his sacrafice for having that "number" that makes him feel good relative to other guys on the internet. If you want to stick to that same game, then you have all the tools here to do so.
One bad thing about our country is that we are infatuated with money and bling.... and in the end all that adds up to is numbers.... which is why cam specs and peak HP numbers are all that matters here.... so that guys can fill up their sigs with something. Hell lets start putting up bank account numbers and measurements of our ***** (or breast sizes for the other sex) in the sigs here, it would be about as meaningfull.
There is a great section here for the drag racing guys who care about ET numbers, which in reality do count a bunch more than peak rwhp numbers, but not as much as beating the guy in the lane NEXT to them, not across the country. Then again the other half of the board is interested in what gets them around the block faster or gets their heart pumping on the way to work everyday.
Enjoy your life and your car for what YOU want it to be, not what you think or feel makes others admire you more. In the end running your life (or shop) the way you want to is the key in the long run. Hell if we all did this then there would be less "shops" with pimped out shop cars paid for with other peoples money and parts that was ripped off of them and a big mess is left for the board to clean up.
Otherwise, STFU and stop jamming your view of meaningless BS down everyones throat.... and if you want to learn about cam specs GO OPEN A BOOK/WEBSITE AND READ, buy some cams, build a motor or two and run them on the dyno and track. Untill then STOP CRYING, I'll teach you how to fish but I'm not casting the line in the ocean for you!
Bret
Well said Bret.
Andrew
12-04-2006, 08:14 AM
#70
This thread is getting pretty good...and to think someone tried deleting it yesterday.
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
12-04-2006, 08:34 AM
#71
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what's funny about this is that even if the cam specs were posted,they wouldn't necessarily work in a motor with a different combo of parts.or even the same combo.i could see someone take the specs and try to copy them onto some XER or LSX lobes or whatever and still come up short.
maybe Bret is using asymmetrical lobes,or the ramps rates are totally different then a comp lobe.you can't think you can copy this stuff and make it work.i was going try this myself and i came to the conclusion,after digesting all the info i could on here,that it would be a waste of my time.i finally came off 450.00 last week and ordered a custom cam because i will never fully understand the dynamics of a motor like someone who does this stuff for a living.
hell,i want to see these specs as bad as anyone else on here.but stop and think about this for a minute....if some of Brets customers(or potential customers) knew he was giving out specs on a cam he designed,even tho it had nothing to do with their motors,he might lose some business.because they might see this thread and think "well if he's giving out info on this other guy's cam,he might do it to me".so they go to somebody else.the racing community is very protective or secrective of the technology they have,whether it's a cam design,port design,etc.if a team thinks they have an edge on the competition,they want to keep it to themselves and make damn sure any vendors they use are just as secretive as they are....
maybe Bret is using asymmetrical lobes,or the ramps rates are totally different then a comp lobe.you can't think you can copy this stuff and make it work.i was going try this myself and i came to the conclusion,after digesting all the info i could on here,that it would be a waste of my time.i finally came off 450.00 last week and ordered a custom cam because i will never fully understand the dynamics of a motor like someone who does this stuff for a living.
hell,i want to see these specs as bad as anyone else on here.but stop and think about this for a minute....if some of Brets customers(or potential customers) knew he was giving out specs on a cam he designed,even tho it had nothing to do with their motors,he might lose some business.because they might see this thread and think "well if he's giving out info on this other guy's cam,he might do it to me".so they go to somebody else.the racing community is very protective or secrective of the technology they have,whether it's a cam design,port design,etc.if a team thinks they have an edge on the competition,they want to keep it to themselves and make damn sure any vendors they use are just as secretive as they are....
12-04-2006, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Patrick G
This thread is getting pretty good...and to think someone tried deleting it yesterday.
12-04-2006, 09:02 AM
#73
Originally Posted by 66deuce
i hope it doesn't get deleted,i was thinking it might be before i finished typing my last post,lol.
Last edited by WKMCD; 12-04-2006 at 01:48 PM.
12-04-2006, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
Well, this is a very interesting study in human behaviour if anything. It's interesting to see the reactions of both people who are pro and con on divulging cam specs.
Honestly it all depends on where you are coming from, and at the same time says a lot about you to potential vendors. Trust me if a vendor can prevent from selling to some of the people in this thread because it will be all headaches and whining they will. Then again most guys who are the better customers trust people and how they run their shops to do what is right for them. In the end that's what they BOTH want. Lord knows I choose who I want to work with, not the other way around. (maybe my personal policies reflect this as well, hmmmm)
I've worked with everyone from individuals such as Kevin to race engine builders and head porters on cams and valvetrains. Some guys reguardless if it's a high 300's FLYWHEEL circle track motor or a monster 1000hp drag motor will not tell you cam specs. Other shops who have VERY good names will never ever sell to you again if you let another shop open up "their" motor, due to a lot of "SECRETS" that are just given up when you do so.
That could be and has been the difference in going from a winning season to a losing season, by having the right guy build OR NOT build your motor. (or chassis)
Some places like Reher Morrison will give you the cam specs to every motor they make for sportsman racing. I've even seen them publish Pro Stock cam specs. There are also guys like Erik Koenig who teach at SAM that cams aren't a secret.... I respect them for doing all of that, but even these guys will tell you that the LS world Is WAY TO WRAPED UP IN SPECS and doesn't care about performance as much as the numbers on the card or in their sig.
The funny part is I haven't seen any of this put a new view on ANY cams that are readily available to you guys, and it never will. The only guy out there who is doing anything different than the normal is Futral because they use a different place to grind their cams than everyone else. There are other shops but you don't hear as much about them as you would the F13, G5X4, TRex or MS4 or whatever threads that constantly clutter the bandwidth daily. For the most part everything is a combination of LSK, XE-R etc... lobes on a 112 LSA +/- 2° with varing philosophies on the amount of split and pretty much a similar IVC. You really can't screw up much with a intake manifold that has that much runner length in this RPM band, but man I do see a lot of stuff that gets smoked by a stock cam from idle to 4500rpm and people call these driveable and "fun" to use daily. Give me a break. That's only usefull for bragging rights on who makes the most rwhp AND drag racing with huge converters..... but in the end that's what sells more parts and STROKES egos.
I guess all of this also has a place since if what makes a guy happy is that his motor makes a magic number on a dyno, he spent that much money he should get those results that everyone else tries to achive. He might drive the car to work a bunch less, not take his wife out in the car because she doesn't like the bucking and lopey idle or might not drive it long trips in the summer.... that's his sacrafice for having that "number" that makes him feel good relative to other guys on the internet. If you want to stick to that same game, then you have all the tools here to do so.
One bad thing about our country is that we are infatuated with money and bling.... and in the end all that adds up to is numbers.... which is why cam specs and peak HP numbers are all that matters here.... so that guys can fill up their sigs with something. Hell lets start putting up bank account numbers and measurements of our ***** (or breast sizes for the other sex) in the sigs here, it would be about as meaningfull.
There is a great section here for the drag racing guys who care about ET numbers, which in reality do count a bunch more than peak rwhp numbers, but not as much as beating the guy in the lane NEXT to them, not across the country. Then again the other half of the board is interested in what gets them around the block faster or gets their heart pumping on the way to work everyday.
Enjoy your life and your car for what YOU want it to be, not what you think or feel makes others admire you more. In the end running your life (or shop) the way you want to is the key in the long run. Hell if we all did this then there would be less "shops" with pimped out shop cars paid for with other peoples money and parts that was ripped off of them and a big mess is left for the board to clean up.
Otherwise, STFU and stop jamming your view of meaningless BS down everyones throat.... and if you want to learn about cam specs GO OPEN A BOOK/WEBSITE AND READ, buy some cams, build a motor or two and run them on the dyno and track. Untill then STOP CRYING, I'll teach you how to fish but I'm not casting the line in the ocean for you!
Bret
Honestly it all depends on where you are coming from, and at the same time says a lot about you to potential vendors. Trust me if a vendor can prevent from selling to some of the people in this thread because it will be all headaches and whining they will. Then again most guys who are the better customers trust people and how they run their shops to do what is right for them. In the end that's what they BOTH want. Lord knows I choose who I want to work with, not the other way around. (maybe my personal policies reflect this as well, hmmmm)
I've worked with everyone from individuals such as Kevin to race engine builders and head porters on cams and valvetrains. Some guys reguardless if it's a high 300's FLYWHEEL circle track motor or a monster 1000hp drag motor will not tell you cam specs. Other shops who have VERY good names will never ever sell to you again if you let another shop open up "their" motor, due to a lot of "SECRETS" that are just given up when you do so.
That could be and has been the difference in going from a winning season to a losing season, by having the right guy build OR NOT build your motor. (or chassis)
Some places like Reher Morrison will give you the cam specs to every motor they make for sportsman racing. I've even seen them publish Pro Stock cam specs. There are also guys like Erik Koenig who teach at SAM that cams aren't a secret.... I respect them for doing all of that, but even these guys will tell you that the LS world Is WAY TO WRAPED UP IN SPECS and doesn't care about performance as much as the numbers on the card or in their sig.
The funny part is I haven't seen any of this put a new view on ANY cams that are readily available to you guys, and it never will. The only guy out there who is doing anything different than the normal is Futral because they use a different place to grind their cams than everyone else. There are other shops but you don't hear as much about them as you would the F13, G5X4, TRex or MS4 or whatever threads that constantly clutter the bandwidth daily. For the most part everything is a combination of LSK, XE-R etc... lobes on a 112 LSA +/- 2° with varing philosophies on the amount of split and pretty much a similar IVC. You really can't screw up much with a intake manifold that has that much runner length in this RPM band, but man I do see a lot of stuff that gets smoked by a stock cam from idle to 4500rpm and people call these driveable and "fun" to use daily. Give me a break. That's only usefull for bragging rights on who makes the most rwhp AND drag racing with huge converters..... but in the end that's what sells more parts and STROKES egos.
I guess all of this also has a place since if what makes a guy happy is that his motor makes a magic number on a dyno, he spent that much money he should get those results that everyone else tries to achive. He might drive the car to work a bunch less, not take his wife out in the car because she doesn't like the bucking and lopey idle or might not drive it long trips in the summer.... that's his sacrafice for having that "number" that makes him feel good relative to other guys on the internet. If you want to stick to that same game, then you have all the tools here to do so.
One bad thing about our country is that we are infatuated with money and bling.... and in the end all that adds up to is numbers.... which is why cam specs and peak HP numbers are all that matters here.... so that guys can fill up their sigs with something. Hell lets start putting up bank account numbers and measurements of our ***** (or breast sizes for the other sex) in the sigs here, it would be about as meaningfull.
There is a great section here for the drag racing guys who care about ET numbers, which in reality do count a bunch more than peak rwhp numbers, but not as much as beating the guy in the lane NEXT to them, not across the country. Then again the other half of the board is interested in what gets them around the block faster or gets their heart pumping on the way to work everyday.
Enjoy your life and your car for what YOU want it to be, not what you think or feel makes others admire you more. In the end running your life (or shop) the way you want to is the key in the long run. Hell if we all did this then there would be less "shops" with pimped out shop cars paid for with other peoples money and parts that was ripped off of them and a big mess is left for the board to clean up.
Otherwise, STFU and stop jamming your view of meaningless BS down everyones throat.... and if you want to learn about cam specs GO OPEN A BOOK/WEBSITE AND READ, buy some cams, build a motor or two and run them on the dyno and track. Untill then STOP CRYING, I'll teach you how to fish but I'm not casting the line in the ocean for you!
Bret
i agree with everything you have said..... except for not divulging the cam specs part! since ya are the first ya know.
Well said!
You have officially earned my respect!
12-04-2006, 09:26 AM
#75
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Originally Posted by WKMCD
I've got a friend putting together a quick video with the car idling and a quick blip. Should be posted soon.
sweet....
as far as combos..... most 402/408/414etc L92headed/L76 intake cars will have similiar specs.
except for considerations for:
Drivability
Max RPM
Lifters and valvespring use
Where in the RPM to put max HP/TQ
Road race, street use, or drag strip
we can all agree that most of us are looking for drag strip with a hair of drivability........ probably 70% of us.
your cam does sound more like a streetcar low powerband torque monster.
Get a dyno graph on it already!!!
12-04-2006, 09:42 AM
#76
Originally Posted by Forteen3GT
sweet....
as far as combos..... most 402/408/414etc L92headed/L76 intake cars will have similiar specs.
except for considerations for:
Drivability
Max RPM
Lifters and valvespring use
Where in the RPM to put max HP/TQ
Road race, street use, or drag strip
we can all agree that most of us are looking for drag strip with a hair of drivability........ probably 70% of us.
your cam does sound more like a streetcar low powerband torque monster.
Get a dyno graph on it already!!!
as far as combos..... most 402/408/414etc L92headed/L76 intake cars will have similiar specs.
except for considerations for:
Drivability
Max RPM
Lifters and valvespring use
Where in the RPM to put max HP/TQ
Road race, street use, or drag strip
we can all agree that most of us are looking for drag strip with a hair of drivability........ probably 70% of us.
your cam does sound more like a streetcar low powerband torque monster.
Get a dyno graph on it already!!!
12-04-2006, 10:26 AM
#77
TECH Fanatic
Originally Posted by SStrokerAce
Well, this is a very interesting study in human behaviour if anything.
Bret
Bret
The most interesting people I've met in life, or on forums, are not one dimensional; they have many interests and many facets to their personalities. I have learned something from most of them. The good ones are willing to share much general knowledge to help others, without sharing "numbers" which would compromise their clients or their own livelyhood. I respect them for that, as I hope they respect me if/when I do the same thing.
As far as custom cam specs go, obviously the manufacturer (CompCams, for example) knows exactly what it is, but they respect their customer's request to not reveal the specs needed to duplicate it. They do this same thing for the small engine builder as they do for Cup teams. If they didn't, they would be out of that business.
I have learned quite a bit about some folks from this thread. If some of you are at PRI, the beer is on me!
12-04-2006, 10:38 AM
#78
i have the same build up being done right now. your motor and mine will be a match compression,heads,intake,all but the cam. i'm going with a custom cam once we get the flow #'s from the ported l92 heads,then a cam will be ground up to fit the heads and intake. i will share my cam info with every one. i don't feel a need to hold back,if that was the case this site would be almost worthless.. goodluck to ya and congrats on the motor.
BLUE02WS6- i have had all the LG motorsport cams,x1,x2,x3and x4(x3 was the best) they were all great performers driving on the street,the dyno and hell at the strip.
LOUIS-well put on your comment brother.
BLUE02WS6- i have had all the LG motorsport cams,x1,x2,x3and x4(x3 was the best) they were all great performers driving on the street,the dyno and hell at the strip.
LOUIS-well put on your comment brother.
Last edited by mike c.; 12-04-2006 at 10:53 AM.
12-04-2006, 01:23 PM
#79
Originally Posted by Blue02Ws6
So everyone on here that takes advise from this board and applies it to their setup is a moron?
