TELL ME!!! Stage 3 heads on a 402 do I go AFR, RHS, DART, Patriot???
04-10-2007, 09:23 PM
#21
Originally Posted by Greg Good
I've seen you harp on this several times. The fact is that the slightly longer valve in the ET 11 degree heads doesn't preclude the engine from turning 7000+. BTDT.
04-10-2007, 09:58 PM
#22
You're wrong about the valve weight being a deal breaker on the ET's. Yeah, the ET's have a slightly longer valve, but with the right spring package they go 7000 with a hydraulic roller no problem. The longer valve lets a racer run an .800"+ lift solid roller if he decides to, and it gives the head porter room to get creative with the port roof.
The last several set of ET 245's on my bench stayed smooth to .750" where it leveld out. The set of ET 255's I fglowed the other day gained intake flow all the way to .850" lift. That's not something many LS head men can boast about.
The last several set of ET 245's on my bench stayed smooth to .750" where it leveld out. The set of ET 255's I fglowed the other day gained intake flow all the way to .850" lift. That's not something many LS head men can boast about.
04-10-2007, 10:06 PM
#23
Originally Posted by Greg Good
You're wrong about the valve weight being a deal breaker on the ET's. Yeah, the ET's have a slightly longer valve, but with the right spring package they go 7000 with a hydraulic roller no problem. The longer valve lets a racer run an .800"+ lift solid roller if he decides to, and it gives the head porter room to get creative with the port roof.
The last several set of ET 245's on my bench stayed smooth to .750" where it leveld out. The set of ET 255's I fglowed the other day gained intake flow all the way to .850" lift. That's not something many LS head men can boast about.
The last several set of ET 245's on my bench stayed smooth to .750" where it leveld out. The set of ET 255's I fglowed the other day gained intake flow all the way to .850" lift. That's not something many LS head men can boast about.
Don't you think that is why the ET heads shine in big RPM applications and the TFS heads shine in the hyd roller, pump gas applications?
04-10-2007, 10:24 PM
#24
Yeah, if you don't have a good spring package and set them up meticulously, you will have problems on a hydraulic roller engine, no matter what length the valves are. Hydraulic roller setups are junk in my opinion. Not something someone can "Forrest Gump" his way through.
I don't even see the point of an expensive aftermarket casting for a pump gas hydraulic roller engine. An ET 5.3 head will run high 9's on a pump gas daily driver. Member TexCamSS does it. Yeah, I admit it, I worked on the heads and screwed them up. You and I both know I can't port heads at all. So consider how fast it would be if I hadn't jacked them up.
Look here:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/single-digit-club/649226-sign-us-up-guys.html
I don't even see the point of an expensive aftermarket casting for a pump gas hydraulic roller engine. An ET 5.3 head will run high 9's on a pump gas daily driver. Member TexCamSS does it. Yeah, I admit it, I worked on the heads and screwed them up. You and I both know I can't port heads at all. So consider how fast it would be if I hadn't jacked them up.
Look here:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/single-digit-club/649226-sign-us-up-guys.html
Last edited by Greg Good; 04-10-2007 at 10:55 PM.
04-11-2007, 01:12 AM
#25
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When you say pricy??? What are you thinnking $$??
Originally Posted by tlaselva
None.
IMO, the TEA TF Heads are the best flowing 225's out on the market.
Pricey, but like many things in life, you get what you pay for.
Here's a recent bench flow test on a set I just got a week ago.
When you say pricy??? What are you thinnking $$??
Do you have a link for them?
Here's a shot of the heads themselves.
IMO, the TEA TF Heads are the best flowing 225's out on the market.
Pricey, but like many things in life, you get what you pay for.
Here's a recent bench flow test on a set I just got a week ago.
When you say pricy??? What are you thinnking $$??
Do you have a link for them?
Here's a shot of the heads themselves.
04-11-2007, 06:34 AM
#26
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lets say i have 3 or 4 grand to dump on a head swap (TOTAL, not 4 grand for heads and then buy rockers, gaskets, tuning...) as it seems thats about average for heads these days. that gets you above the patriot heads and other companies that port stock castings and puts you in the aftermarket realm. from what i am reading here it looks like trickflows are great but then you need to work out the problem of the LS1/6 intake and a fast 90/90 is expensive adding to the total swap cost. if someone went with LS7 heads the price of the intake almost makes up for the added cost of the heads... i am so confused on what to do here. i have about 6 grand to spend which is making it even more confusing since it gives me even more options....
04-11-2007, 08:49 AM
#28
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w&w
Originally Posted by Brian Tooley
Right and wrong. The longer valves are better for a RACE head, they are a problem on a HYD ROLLER engine, I have seen it on the dyno, as have numerous other people.
Don't you think that is why the ET heads shine in big RPM applications and the TFS heads shine in the hyd roller, pump gas applications?
Don't you think that is why the ET heads shine in big RPM applications and the TFS heads shine in the hyd roller, pump gas applications?
Brian,
I have seen more problems from our heads not being set up right than anything, whether it be the wrong springs or not. Since we have swithched over to the Patriot springs, no problems at all. It was not just valve weight, it was total combined mass. The longer valve has added frustration to the mix, but was overcome by the lighter spring package. We will soon be using stock length valves in all of our cathederal port heads and have the light spring package. No problems at all right now with the lighter springs going to 7000 rpm. These cam profiles are so aggressive that when they are not set up with the lifter preload properly, they will have issues with bounce at a higher rpm.
04-11-2007, 08:56 AM
#29
Originally Posted by slow95z
lets say i have 3 or 4 grand to dump on a head swap (TOTAL, not 4 grand for heads and then buy rockers, gaskets, tuning...) as it seems thats about average for heads these days. that gets you above the patriot heads and other companies that port stock castings and puts you in the aftermarket realm. from what i am reading here it looks like trickflows are great but then you need to work out the problem of the LS1/6 intake and a fast 90/90 is expensive adding to the total swap cost. if someone went with LS7 heads the price of the intake almost makes up for the added cost of the heads... i am so confused on what to do here. i have about 6 grand to spend which is making it even more confusing since it gives me even more options....
04-11-2007, 11:06 AM
#30
The factory valves on the LS7's aren't breaking tips, the lash caps are coming off. Then the rocker arm wears the soft valve tip down. When it wears down to the keeper groove the locks come out and the valve drops. I have one sitting on my desk.
They should have installed valves with hard tips in those heads but instead went with no hard tip and loose fitting lash caps. The first thing an LS7 owner should do to his car is install a set of lash caps that press on.
They should have installed valves with hard tips in those heads but instead went with no hard tip and loose fitting lash caps. The first thing an LS7 owner should do to his car is install a set of lash caps that press on.
04-11-2007, 11:12 AM
#31
Originally Posted by Greg Good
The factory valves on the LS7's aren't breaking tips, the lash caps are coming off. Then the rocker arm wears the soft valve tip down. When it wears down to the keeper groove the locks come out and the valve drops. I have one sitting on my desk.
They should have installed valves with hard tips in those heads but instead went with no hard tip and loose fitting lash caps. The first thing an LS7 owner should do to his car is install a set of lash caps that press on.
They should have installed valves with hard tips in those heads but instead went with no hard tip and loose fitting lash caps. The first thing an LS7 owner should do to his car is install a set of lash caps that press on.
04-11-2007, 03:06 PM
#34
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well since i have a 4.125 bore right now thats not a problem just i have craptastic stock heads that are ported out. not saying they are bad heads because at the time that was about all you could get but i will be looking to up grade this year probally. what do you suggest i go with.
