LSX 454 How dose this combo sound to you?
06-14-2007 | 04:53 PM
#41
Launching!
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 204
Likes: 0
From: Arizona.
Quick questions:
What ratio are the rockers?
What Springs will last on a cam with .600+ liftand be streetable and reliable?
What kind of mileage in a DD sense might be resonable before replacing them?
What ratio are the rockers?
What Springs will last on a cam with .600+ liftand be streetable and reliable?
What kind of mileage in a DD sense might be resonable before replacing them?
06-14-2007 | 05:19 PM
#42
Originally Posted by MPHmotorsports
Is this a joke or are you serious?
You must have only read the origional post.
He has changed his thinking since then.
The ported LS2 won't even fit on LS7 style heads.
You must have only read the origional post.
He has changed his thinking since then.
The ported LS2 won't even fit on LS7 style heads.
I figured until then he would use ls1 style heads.
06-14-2007 | 06:21 PM
#43
Originally Posted by JakeFusion™
It'd be cheaper to do a forged 347 with a procharger at this rate to hit 700rwhp.
But if you want to do an NA 454 there are a couple of things you need to know to save you all sorts of money.
1) Stock GM LS7 heads and an LS7 intake manifold will support the 454 upto 7,500 RPM with 100% VE; you'll need less RPMs the higher the VE - 127% VE is a peak of about 6k RPM, and most LS engines do about 108-109%, so you're looking at a peak according to headflow of 7,000 RPM. If you want more, port the heads or go with the ETP heads. Then, you'll have to look into going solid roller, because 330cfm through the LS7 intake manifold with those heads is enough air to support your power goals ~700rwhp.
2) A 440+ CID engine with a FAST 90 can and will support over 600rwhp. I've been saying for a while on here that the FAST can do it and Vengeance just proved it again (not that ECS, Vette Doctors, or Cartek didnt' do it a couple of years ago). But, the LS7 intake is going to do even more for you. Also, just because an intake manifold flows 330-340 with a set of heads (e.g., stock LS7), doesn't mean EVERY set of heads will flow that through the manifold. An intake knocks down a percentage of flow, not an absolute number. So, if you have ported LS7s flowing 400cfm, the flow through the manifold will be more than 330 as well. But, 330cfm supports quite a lot of power and RPM in a 454 as I said before.
3) I absolutely do not agree that a sheetmetal intake is necessary to get the most out of a street-driven 454. Not where it'll live below 5k RPM most of the time. Why pay another $2k for an intake that will only start to make more power after ~6200RPM? A sheetmetal will be down on power until past the peak of a the LS7 manifold. So, even though it might pull a good 40-60rwhp at 7k RPM, it's real gains will be well past 7k RPM. And unless you're going with a solid roller, I would highly recommend you use the LS7 intake manifold. Stock LS7 heads, too, as they are cheaper than most aftermarket heads.
4) I'd look into some American Racing 1-7/8" High Velocity Merge (HVM) Headers. The LS7 exhaust port benefits more from high velocity than larger exhaust diameter. If this were a 427, I'd actually recommend the 1-3/4" headers as they've proven to be capable upto 625rwhp with no loss on the LS7 heads. But, with the extra cubes coming mostly from the larger bore on the 454, the 1-7/8" headers will be a better choice. Bigger is not better in the LSx world when it comes to headers.
5) As far as a cam, something in the neighborhood of a 260 intake duration with at least a 10-degree split would work very well. Since you are ordering from TSP, they have a 257/266 113 camshaft that I think could make very good power for you. And by good power, I mean 625+rwhp. I don't know your budget, but a complete 454 longblock with the LS7 heads/intake/fuel injectors, 90mm TB, GMPP Cadillac Racing Lifters, hardened pushrods, the 257/266 cam, ported oil pump, LS2 timing chain, ARP hardware, Cometic gaskets, and various other items and all will be just over $10k. And it'll lay down 625+rwhp without even trying and maintain good streetable manners.
But if you want to do an NA 454 there are a couple of things you need to know to save you all sorts of money.
1) Stock GM LS7 heads and an LS7 intake manifold will support the 454 upto 7,500 RPM with 100% VE; you'll need less RPMs the higher the VE - 127% VE is a peak of about 6k RPM, and most LS engines do about 108-109%, so you're looking at a peak according to headflow of 7,000 RPM. If you want more, port the heads or go with the ETP heads. Then, you'll have to look into going solid roller, because 330cfm through the LS7 intake manifold with those heads is enough air to support your power goals ~700rwhp.
2) A 440+ CID engine with a FAST 90 can and will support over 600rwhp. I've been saying for a while on here that the FAST can do it and Vengeance just proved it again (not that ECS, Vette Doctors, or Cartek didnt' do it a couple of years ago). But, the LS7 intake is going to do even more for you. Also, just because an intake manifold flows 330-340 with a set of heads (e.g., stock LS7), doesn't mean EVERY set of heads will flow that through the manifold. An intake knocks down a percentage of flow, not an absolute number. So, if you have ported LS7s flowing 400cfm, the flow through the manifold will be more than 330 as well. But, 330cfm supports quite a lot of power and RPM in a 454 as I said before.
3) I absolutely do not agree that a sheetmetal intake is necessary to get the most out of a street-driven 454. Not where it'll live below 5k RPM most of the time. Why pay another $2k for an intake that will only start to make more power after ~6200RPM? A sheetmetal will be down on power until past the peak of a the LS7 manifold. So, even though it might pull a good 40-60rwhp at 7k RPM, it's real gains will be well past 7k RPM. And unless you're going with a solid roller, I would highly recommend you use the LS7 intake manifold. Stock LS7 heads, too, as they are cheaper than most aftermarket heads.
4) I'd look into some American Racing 1-7/8" High Velocity Merge (HVM) Headers. The LS7 exhaust port benefits more from high velocity than larger exhaust diameter. If this were a 427, I'd actually recommend the 1-3/4" headers as they've proven to be capable upto 625rwhp with no loss on the LS7 heads. But, with the extra cubes coming mostly from the larger bore on the 454, the 1-7/8" headers will be a better choice. Bigger is not better in the LSx world when it comes to headers.
5) As far as a cam, something in the neighborhood of a 260 intake duration with at least a 10-degree split would work very well. Since you are ordering from TSP, they have a 257/266 113 camshaft that I think could make very good power for you. And by good power, I mean 625+rwhp. I don't know your budget, but a complete 454 longblock with the LS7 heads/intake/fuel injectors, 90mm TB, GMPP Cadillac Racing Lifters, hardened pushrods, the 257/266 cam, ported oil pump, LS2 timing chain, ARP hardware, Cometic gaskets, and various other items and all will be just over $10k. And it'll lay down 625+rwhp without even trying and maintain good streetable manners.
Wow The numbers I am getting are more like $13,000-$14,000
with ETP LS7 heads, ported LS7 intake, Ported T.B.???
06-14-2007 | 06:45 PM
#44
Originally Posted by 1Hotbird
Wow The numbers I am getting are more like $13,000-$14,000
with ETP LS7 heads, ported LS7 intake, Ported T.B.???
with ETP LS7 heads, ported LS7 intake, Ported T.B.???
$10k might be forgetting something, but I'd think a solid $11-12k depending on options could do it.
06-14-2007 | 06:48 PM
#45
Originally Posted by JakeFusion™
That's why I said use the GM LS7s. They'll save you close to a $1000. Use the GM rockers as well.
$10k might be forgetting something, but I'd think a solid $11-12k depending on options could do it.
$10k might be forgetting something, but I'd think a solid $11-12k depending on options could do it.
06-14-2007 | 10:59 PM
#47
TECH Veteran
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,117
Likes: 0
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Originally Posted by 1Hotbird
One guy says I need Better than EPT LS7 Heads sheetmetal intake, One guy says stick with factory LS7 heads and Factory Ls7 intake???
If you want to use the full potnetial of a 454 cubic inch engine, than you need better than LS7 heads and definitely better than an LS7 intake.
Yeah, the LS7 heads and LS7 intake will make serious power, but you can make perhaps another 60 hp on the same exact engine with other heads and a sheet metal intake.
.
06-15-2007 | 06:06 AM
#48
Originally Posted by Quickin
Its simple.
If you want to use the full potnetial of a 454 cubic inch engine, than you need better than LS7 heads and definitely better than an LS7 intake.
Yeah, the LS7 heads and LS7 intake will make serious power, but you can make perhaps another 60 hp on the same exact engine with other heads and a sheet metal intake.
.
If you want to use the full potnetial of a 454 cubic inch engine, than you need better than LS7 heads and definitely better than an LS7 intake.
Yeah, the LS7 heads and LS7 intake will make serious power, but you can make perhaps another 60 hp on the same exact engine with other heads and a sheet metal intake.
.
06-15-2007 | 07:22 AM
#50
Here is the deal.
There will always be some head or intake or cam that will make more power. The amount of power you make is directly linked to how much money you want to spend.
Remeber this though, even with an unlimited amount of money, there are certain LAWS of physics that can't be broken. When you get to a certain point in power production in an engine, any gain you make on the topend will be accompanied by a loss on the low end. You say you want 700 rwhp?? That is fine, it can be done, as a matter of fact out of a lsx 454 not really that hard(expensive, but not hard) BUT you will not have a torque monster at 2500 rpms.
Let me break down some cost for you
Block $2K
Crank $1300
Rods $600
Rings $200
Heads $4K
cam $400
misc stuff $1500
Right now you are at $10k, no intake manifold and NO ASSEMBLY/Machine work. Not to mention making the restof your car handle all of this power
At this point you will have to decide, do I go for the gusto and wring every hp out of this thing?? If yes, then you can tack on $2500 at the bare minimum for a sheetmetal.
If not, can you be happy with 625-640 rwhp?? Buy a stock ls7 manifold and a N2O kit for $1k less and still make more hp. I know you could add the N2O kit on top of the sheetmetal and make even more, but there comes a time that budget/ common sense will constrain you.
I know all of this the hard way. Believe me.
There will always be some head or intake or cam that will make more power. The amount of power you make is directly linked to how much money you want to spend.
Remeber this though, even with an unlimited amount of money, there are certain LAWS of physics that can't be broken. When you get to a certain point in power production in an engine, any gain you make on the topend will be accompanied by a loss on the low end. You say you want 700 rwhp?? That is fine, it can be done, as a matter of fact out of a lsx 454 not really that hard(expensive, but not hard) BUT you will not have a torque monster at 2500 rpms.
Let me break down some cost for you
Block $2K
Crank $1300
Rods $600
Rings $200
Heads $4K
cam $400
misc stuff $1500
Right now you are at $10k, no intake manifold and NO ASSEMBLY/Machine work. Not to mention making the restof your car handle all of this power
At this point you will have to decide, do I go for the gusto and wring every hp out of this thing?? If yes, then you can tack on $2500 at the bare minimum for a sheetmetal.
If not, can you be happy with 625-640 rwhp?? Buy a stock ls7 manifold and a N2O kit for $1k less and still make more hp. I know you could add the N2O kit on top of the sheetmetal and make even more, but there comes a time that budget/ common sense will constrain you.
I know all of this the hard way. Believe me.
06-15-2007 | 11:19 AM
#52
Originally Posted by Stang's Bane
I just noticed that this is your daily driver.
My advice then would be a forged 347 and a d1.
My advice then would be a forged 347 and a d1.
Not a bad idea, or maybe even a APS kit.
I myself am a NA fan. I think this can maintain being a hell of a good street car. Tons of torque and tons of fun.
Just needs the right combo of parts.
Should be hell of a lot of fun though....
06-15-2007 | 11:21 AM
#53
Originally Posted by Sparetire
Quick questions:
What ratio are the rockers?
What Springs will last on a cam with .600+ liftand be streetable and reliable?
What kind of mileage in a DD sense might be resonable before replacing them?
What ratio are the rockers?
What Springs will last on a cam with .600+ liftand be streetable and reliable?
What kind of mileage in a DD sense might be resonable before replacing them?
1.8 ratio.
There are a number of springs that will work.
Many combo's over 600" of lift have well over 20,000 miles and no issues.
06-15-2007 | 07:39 PM
#54
Are the knock sensors in a differant place on the lsx Block?
What clutch should I use for this application? 600-700 RWHP
Also What gears should I run in a Ford 9" on a 99% street driven car?
What clutch should I use for this application? 600-700 RWHP
Also What gears should I run in a Ford 9" on a 99% street driven car?
06-16-2007 | 01:30 PM
#55
Originally Posted by 1Hotbird
Are the knock sensors in a differant place on the lsx Block?
What clutch should I use for this application? 600-700 RWHP
Also What gears should I run in a Ford 9" on a 99% street driven car?
What clutch should I use for this application? 600-700 RWHP
Also What gears should I run in a Ford 9" on a 99% street driven car?
2)textralia twin, mcleod twin, ram twin, or spec twin
3)4.10's
06-16-2007 | 05:54 PM
#57
Originally Posted by 1Hotbird
do I need a wiring kit and or new knock sensors to relocate the sensors for the New LSX block??
06-16-2007 | 11:17 PM
#58
Originally Posted by JakeFusion™
Katech sells them. If you buy a 454 long block from TSP or SDPC, they include the necessary harness extensions, along with all the LS2 conversion stuff.
06-17-2007 | 09:33 AM
#60
Originally Posted by Brad Hutchcraft
this sounds like a fairy tale to me.... buy a lid and put a bunch of "NOS" stickers on your car.... that should make it over 700 rwhp easily....