head and intake is all i need to choose
i think the sheetmetal intake will only show gains in the very high rpms ( probably above 6k) and will probably lose more torque than the top end hp it picks up. a ported ls7 intake flows very well and is dirt cheap. you will have a very strong combo either way so good luck on your build up and keep us posted.
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so it'll be near redline when I have my fun so a sheet metal should be my best bet, right? surely driving casual throughout the city streets I won't need gobbs of torque because I won't be racing in city streets, just driving pretty much normal. maybe hit an onramp with no other cars in sight Ill take it to 150 rreal fast. Thats about it. I was told my a few sponsor/builders to not worry about this low end loss of torque in a 454ci, that in a 454ci with LS7 heads and a sheet metal intake its still gonna make more torque then a street tire can possibly hold if I wetre to nail the pedal anywhere under 60 mph, so having that extra power up high seems like whats best for what I want and i should still have a monster from low-mid range.
No?
And yes I do want drivability, but it'll be just a weekend car so I can handle more cam then I'd normally go for. My friends 427 has a 244/244 .612/.612 114 lsa and it idles so darn smooth so i am gonna go alot bigger.
[/QUOTE]
Last edited by needadvice; Jan 13, 2008 at 01:21 PM.
It's your thread, you can do what you want. Your correct on the more TQ than the tires can handle thing. It's just hard to go with a short runner intake, like the sheet metals, that leave loads of power/TQ on the table. A big cam and a short runner intake are gunna make power WAY up top, (6500-7500) the problem your going to have is controling the valvetrain on this high rpm, big cam, big valve motor. The combo your looking at is something your weekend drag strip warrior would want, but only you can make up your mind. It's not what I would do, but I don't ever go 150 mph.
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It's your thread, you can do what you want. Your correct on the more TQ than the tires can handle thing. It's just hard to go with a short runner intake, like the sheet metals, that leave loads of power/TQ on the table. A big cam and a short runner intake are gunna make power WAY up top, (6500-7500) the problem your going to have is controling the valvetrain on this high rpm, big cam, big valve motor. The combo your looking at is something your weekend drag strip warrior would want, but only you can make up your mind. It's not what I would do, but I don't ever go 150 mph.
but the question is, without jumping that price to the moon is there a kit or other parts combinations that allow for faster revs and safer high rpms?
i just see so much talk about the LS7 intake killing the potential of the LS7 heads. so if a sheet metal intake was used i would think the higher rpms would at least benefit from it. If low end torque and power won't REALLY be an issue because the engine will be such a badass why not have the advantage, at the ready, when I want to go high rpm.
Look, I don't see anybody who has tried this in a street driven car but do you see where I SHOULD have plenty of low-end torque and power and then be able to shine when a high rpm run was needed.
The LS7 intake doesn't kill the ls7 heads nearly as bad as the cathedral stuff or the l92/l76/ls3 for that matter. The runners in the ls7 are much shorter than the other composite manifolds.
Unless you plan on boosting this motor or spraying the snot out of it, why go with the 6 bolt heads??? Just a question..
Unless you plan on boosting this motor or spraying the snot out of it, why go with the 6 bolt heads??? Just a question..
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Possibly FI later too, just want to have them for when i need them. They aren't that much more money.
Last edited by needadvice; Jan 14, 2008 at 08:49 AM.
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Your budget isnt big enough. You need to go FI to achieve 650rwhp. I would do an lq9 408 and either a twin tirbo from APS or a f1 s/c. You can just about meet your budget restrictions that way. Figure 7k for the s/c setup and fuel system and the other 7k for the long block.
650 RWHP is a very high number and your going to need to take a hit on dependability. Anytime you make high boost you run the chances of something letting go. Be it a hose or clamp or something else.
From some of the results posted on this board you might think your able to get 650rwhp n/a. Maybe on a few southern dyno's but it wont be legit.
650 RWHP is a very high number and your going to need to take a hit on dependability. Anytime you make high boost you run the chances of something letting go. Be it a hose or clamp or something else.
From some of the results posted on this board you might think your able to get 650rwhp n/a. Maybe on a few southern dyno's but it wont be legit.
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Your budget isnt big enough. You need to go FI to achieve 650rwhp. I would do an lq9 408 and either a twin tirbo from APS or a f1 s/c. You can just about meet your budget restrictions that way. Figure 7k for the s/c setup and fuel system and the other 7k for the long block.
650 RWHP is a very high number and your going to need to take a hit on dependability. Anytime you make high boost you run the chances of something letting go. Be it a hose or clamp or something else.
650 RWHP is a very high number and your going to need to take a hit on dependability. Anytime you make high boost you run the chances of something letting go. Be it a hose or clamp or something else.
From some of the results posted on this board you might think your able to get 650rwhp n/a. Maybe on a few southern dyno's but it wont be legit.
Your budget isnt big enough. You need to go FI to achieve 650rwhp. I would do an lq9 408 and either a twin tirbo from APS or a f1 s/c. You can just about meet your budget restrictions that way. Figure 7k for the s/c setup and fuel system and the other 7k for the long block.
650 RWHP is a very high number and your going to need to take a hit on dependability. Anytime you make high boost you run the chances of something letting go. Be it a hose or clamp or something else.
From some of the results posted on this board you might think your able to get 650rwhp n/a. Maybe on a few southern dyno's but it wont be legit.
650 RWHP is a very high number and your going to need to take a hit on dependability. Anytime you make high boost you run the chances of something letting go. Be it a hose or clamp or something else.
From some of the results posted on this board you might think your able to get 650rwhp n/a. Maybe on a few southern dyno's but it wont be legit.
Because you can make a dyno read anything you want. I seen some numbers be posted here to never be duplicated by anyone anywhere at anytime. This is the internet, believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see.
This guy has an A4. No way in hell he gets 650rwhp with a n/a engine at 14k. NO WAY IN HELL! I dont think 600 either. 14k will get him an outstanding combination no doubt but the power goals are unrealistic for a n/a A4 within budget contraints unless you go FI.
I could see that APS and 408 making that without issue. You can just about swing it with his budget.
If i was him I'd talk to Erik Koenig at HK and get some facts.
You need to score this like the Olympics. TOss out the hi and the low and average the rest for your score or results in this case. Thats a better way to estimate power from previous results.
This guy has an A4. No way in hell he gets 650rwhp with a n/a engine at 14k. NO WAY IN HELL! I dont think 600 either. 14k will get him an outstanding combination no doubt but the power goals are unrealistic for a n/a A4 within budget contraints unless you go FI.
I could see that APS and 408 making that without issue. You can just about swing it with his budget.
If i was him I'd talk to Erik Koenig at HK and get some facts.
You need to score this like the Olympics. TOss out the hi and the low and average the rest for your score or results in this case. Thats a better way to estimate power from previous results.
Last edited by 99blancoSS; Jan 14, 2008 at 10:36 AM.
Because you can make a dyno read anything you want. I seen some numbers be posted here to never be duplicated by anyone anywhere at anytime. This is the internet, believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see.
This guy has an A4. No way in hell he gets 650rwhp with a n/a engine at 14k. NO WAY IN HELL! I dont think 600 either. 14k will get him an outstanding combination no doubt but the power goals are unrealistic for a n/a A4 within budget contraints unless you go FI.
I could see that APS and 408 making that without issue. You can just about swing it with his budget.
If i was him I'd talk to Erik Koenig at HK and get some facts.
You need to score this like the Olympics. TOss out the hi and the low and average the rest for your score or results in this case. Thats a better way to estimate power from previous results.
This guy has an A4. No way in hell he gets 650rwhp with a n/a engine at 14k. NO WAY IN HELL! I dont think 600 either. 14k will get him an outstanding combination no doubt but the power goals are unrealistic for a n/a A4 within budget contraints unless you go FI.
I could see that APS and 408 making that without issue. You can just about swing it with his budget.
If i was him I'd talk to Erik Koenig at HK and get some facts.
You need to score this like the Olympics. TOss out the hi and the low and average the rest for your score or results in this case. Thats a better way to estimate power from previous results.
I do not disagree about getting that from an A4, matter of fact I already pointed that out to him. I thought you were talking about in general.
Believe me, I believe very little that I read on here.
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Because you can make a dyno read anything you want. I seen some numbers be posted here to never be duplicated by anyone anywhere at anytime. This is the internet, believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see.
This guy has an A4. No way in hell he gets 650rwhp with a n/a engine at 14k. NO WAY IN HELL! I dont think 600 either. 14k will get him an outstanding combination no doubt but the power goals are unrealistic for a n/a A4 within budget contraints unless you go FI.
I could see that APS and 408 making that without issue. You can just about swing it with his budget.
If i was him I'd talk to Erik Koenig at HK and get some facts.
You need to score this like the Olympics. TOss out the hi and the low and average the rest for your score or results in this case. Thats a better way to estimate power from previous results.
This guy has an A4. No way in hell he gets 650rwhp with a n/a engine at 14k. NO WAY IN HELL! I dont think 600 either. 14k will get him an outstanding combination no doubt but the power goals are unrealistic for a n/a A4 within budget contraints unless you go FI.
I could see that APS and 408 making that without issue. You can just about swing it with his budget.
If i was him I'd talk to Erik Koenig at HK and get some facts.
You need to score this like the Olympics. TOss out the hi and the low and average the rest for your score or results in this case. Thats a better way to estimate power from previous results.
Do you know off hand what the most RWHP has been gotten from an A4 that is ALSO a daily drivable car. Like 427-454ci sized engines with the good heads and a sheet metal intake.
I thouight some of the 427 z06 engines were over 600 RWHP with cam swaps, head porting and exhaust. I know there M6's but with a 454 having more cubes and a MUCVH better flowing intake to allow the LS7 heads to breath close to their potential i didn't think 650 HP would be ouit of reach.
Last edited by needadvice; Jan 14, 2008 at 05:07 PM.
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LSX454 here with a VERY street mannered setup pushing 624RWHP N/A without power adders, but that is thru a M6. I run Trickflow 235's and a ported Fast 90/90.
You want torque? There is absolutely no way to plant the tires unless you are running slicks. I run 315 Nittos out back and blow them off with ease. My set-up revs to 7,200 RPM extremely fast....1st gear is launch and shift as quick as you can dump the clutch and shift, 2nd isn't far behind heading to 3rd.
You want torque? There is absolutely no way to plant the tires unless you are running slicks. I run 315 Nittos out back and blow them off with ease. My set-up revs to 7,200 RPM extremely fast....1st gear is launch and shift as quick as you can dump the clutch and shift, 2nd isn't far behind heading to 3rd.
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LSX454 here with a VERY street mannered setup pushing 624RWHP N/A without power adders, but that is thru a M6. I run Trickflow 235's and a ported Fast 90/90.
You want torque? There is absolutely no way to plant the tires unless you are running slicks. I run 315 Nittos out back and blow them off with ease. My set-up revs to 7,200 RPM extremely fast....1st gear is launch and shift as quick as you can dump the clutch and shift, 2nd isn't far behind heading to 3rd.
You want torque? There is absolutely no way to plant the tires unless you are running slicks. I run 315 Nittos out back and blow them off with ease. My set-up revs to 7,200 RPM extremely fast....1st gear is launch and shift as quick as you can dump the clutch and shift, 2nd isn't far behind heading to 3rd.
I spoke to my builder today and i will talk to ETP about doing lightweight parts so I can spin it a bit higher than normally would be set as redline.
thanks, hope that is not a dumb question but I'm just thinking that sheet metal is gonna wake those heads up big time.
Last edited by needadvice; Jan 14, 2008 at 08:13 PM.
On The Tree
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From: New Orleans
On my engine I would lose low-mid range power and torque, but probably gain some top end. The question you have to consider is how often will you actually spin that high of RPM on the street? How much time in a street race will the engine be below 6,500 RPM, which is when the sheetmetal intake will start to pay dividends? The answer is a significant amount of time after every shift.
Don't get so caught up in total flow numbers; pay attention to the flow numbers at .400, .500 and .600 lift as well, because most races will be won within the first 330 feet, and many are won in the 60 foot launch.
Also don't get caught up in dyno numbers unless you only wanna bench race. I have seen many lower horsepower cars built right take down higher horsepower cars. Happens all the time. The number you should be interested in is horsepower and torque after 3,000 RPM to redline.
You can easily over-cam the engine to the point of fouling plugs, having a shitty mid-range powerband, bucking the tranny, etc.... Don't just say you can cam it up because MANY mistakes are made in the cam selection.
Personally, I would not run a sheetmetal intake on the street. It makes no sense unless ALL you care about is 6,000 - 7,500 RPM. And then you better have a stout lower block, because even with all the good parts, as a street engine it's gonna see premature wear spinning 7,500+ RPM so often.
My comments are based on you saying over and over you will not drag race your ride, but will entertain a street race here and there.
By the way, my 454 has a twin stage 300 shot nitrous system onboard also...(smiley here)
Good luck.
Don't get so caught up in total flow numbers; pay attention to the flow numbers at .400, .500 and .600 lift as well, because most races will be won within the first 330 feet, and many are won in the 60 foot launch.
Also don't get caught up in dyno numbers unless you only wanna bench race. I have seen many lower horsepower cars built right take down higher horsepower cars. Happens all the time. The number you should be interested in is horsepower and torque after 3,000 RPM to redline.
You can easily over-cam the engine to the point of fouling plugs, having a shitty mid-range powerband, bucking the tranny, etc.... Don't just say you can cam it up because MANY mistakes are made in the cam selection.
Personally, I would not run a sheetmetal intake on the street. It makes no sense unless ALL you care about is 6,000 - 7,500 RPM. And then you better have a stout lower block, because even with all the good parts, as a street engine it's gonna see premature wear spinning 7,500+ RPM so often.
My comments are based on you saying over and over you will not drag race your ride, but will entertain a street race here and there.
By the way, my 454 has a twin stage 300 shot nitrous system onboard also...(smiley here)
Good luck.
Last edited by tcr98taws6; Jan 14, 2008 at 09:39 PM.
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On my engine I would lose low-mid range power and torque, but probably gain some top end. The question you have to consider is how often will you actually spin that high of RPM on the street? How much time in a street race will the engine be below 6,500 RPM, which is when the sheetmetal intake will start to pay dividends? The answer is a significant amount of time after every shift.
Don't get so caught up in total flow numbers; pay attention to the flow numbers at .400, .500 and .600 lift as well, because most races will be won within the first 330 feet, and many are won in the 60 foot launch.
Also don't get caught up in dyno numbers unless you only wanna bench race. I have seen many lower horsepower cars built right take down higher horsepower cars. Happens all the time. The number you should be interested in is horsepower and torque after 3,000 RPM to redline.
You can easily over-cam the engine to the point of fouling plugs, having a shitty mid-range powerband, bucking the tranny, etc.... Don't just say you can cam it up because MANY mistakes are made in the cam selection.
Personally, I would not run a sheetmetal intake on the street. It makes no sense unless ALL you care about is 6,000 - 7,500 RPM. And then you better have a stout lower block, because even with all the good parts, as a street engine it's gonna see premature wear spinning 7,500+ RPM so often.
My comments are based on you saying over and over you will not drag race your ride, but will entertain a street race here and there.
By the way, my 454 has a twin stage 300 shot nitrous system onboard also...(smiley here)
Good luck.
Don't get so caught up in total flow numbers; pay attention to the flow numbers at .400, .500 and .600 lift as well, because most races will be won within the first 330 feet, and many are won in the 60 foot launch.
Also don't get caught up in dyno numbers unless you only wanna bench race. I have seen many lower horsepower cars built right take down higher horsepower cars. Happens all the time. The number you should be interested in is horsepower and torque after 3,000 RPM to redline.
You can easily over-cam the engine to the point of fouling plugs, having a shitty mid-range powerband, bucking the tranny, etc.... Don't just say you can cam it up because MANY mistakes are made in the cam selection.
Personally, I would not run a sheetmetal intake on the street. It makes no sense unless ALL you care about is 6,000 - 7,500 RPM. And then you better have a stout lower block, because even with all the good parts, as a street engine it's gonna see premature wear spinning 7,500+ RPM so often.
My comments are based on you saying over and over you will not drag race your ride, but will entertain a street race here and there.
By the way, my 454 has a twin stage 300 shot nitrous system onboard also...(smiley here)
Good luck.
I know i keep saying "daily driver", but in reality it'll be driven probably 1 day per week on weekend for pure fun.
If there's gonna be problems I'll just go ported LS7 intake.
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On my engine I would lose low-mid range power and torque, but probably gain some top end. The question you have to consider is how often will you actually spin that high of RPM on the street? How much time in a street race will the engine be below 6,500 RPM, which is when the sheetmetal intake will start to pay dividends? The answer is a significant amount of time after every shift.
Don't get so caught up in total flow numbers; pay attention to the flow numbers at .400, .500 and .600 lift as well, because most races will be won within the first 330 feet, and many are won in the 60 foot launch.
Also don't get caught up in dyno numbers unless you only wanna bench race. I have seen many lower horsepower cars built right take down higher horsepower cars. Happens all the time. The number you should be interested in is horsepower and torque after 3,000 RPM to redline.
You can easily over-cam the engine to the point of fouling plugs, having a shitty mid-range powerband, bucking the tranny, etc.... Don't just say you can cam it up because MANY mistakes are made in the cam selection.
Personally, I would not run a sheetmetal intake on the street. It makes no sense unless ALL you care about is 6,000 - 7,500 RPM. And then you better have a stout lower block, because even with all the good parts, as a street engine it's gonna see premature wear spinning 7,500+ RPM so often.
My comments are based on you saying over and over you will not drag race your ride, but will entertain a street race here and there.
By the way, my 454 has a twin stage 300 shot nitrous system onboard also...(smiley here)
Good luck.
Don't get so caught up in total flow numbers; pay attention to the flow numbers at .400, .500 and .600 lift as well, because most races will be won within the first 330 feet, and many are won in the 60 foot launch.
Also don't get caught up in dyno numbers unless you only wanna bench race. I have seen many lower horsepower cars built right take down higher horsepower cars. Happens all the time. The number you should be interested in is horsepower and torque after 3,000 RPM to redline.
You can easily over-cam the engine to the point of fouling plugs, having a shitty mid-range powerband, bucking the tranny, etc.... Don't just say you can cam it up because MANY mistakes are made in the cam selection.
Personally, I would not run a sheetmetal intake on the street. It makes no sense unless ALL you care about is 6,000 - 7,500 RPM. And then you better have a stout lower block, because even with all the good parts, as a street engine it's gonna see premature wear spinning 7,500+ RPM so often.
My comments are based on you saying over and over you will not drag race your ride, but will entertain a street race here and there.
By the way, my 454 has a twin stage 300 shot nitrous system onboard also...(smiley here)
Good luck.