Bad News
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From: Fort Worth, TX
Bad News So, about a month ago I was getting coolant in my oil. So, I replaced the head gaskets as I had assumed it was those that were causing the coolant in my oil issues.
Well, before I was going to the track today, I double checked my oil, and when i pulled the oil fill cap off, walla, more condensed coolant.
Now, I'm wondering if this is just leftover coolant that was in my motor from before, because I've only put about 200 miles on it since I swapped gaskets. Does this sound feasible?
I'm also VERY concerned that it might actually be my block. I'm running a LS2 case with Darton LS7 sleeves that was done by Steve at Race Engine Development.
The motor has never been overheated, never turned over 6600 rpms, I just don't see what it could be, other than a bad block, or left over coolant from the issue.
What do you think?
I will have a better indication after an oil change...
Well, before I was going to the track today, I double checked my oil, and when i pulled the oil fill cap off, walla, more condensed coolant.
Now, I'm wondering if this is just leftover coolant that was in my motor from before, because I've only put about 200 miles on it since I swapped gaskets. Does this sound feasible?
I'm also VERY concerned that it might actually be my block. I'm running a LS2 case with Darton LS7 sleeves that was done by Steve at Race Engine Development.
The motor has never been overheated, never turned over 6600 rpms, I just don't see what it could be, other than a bad block, or left over coolant from the issue.
What do you think?
I will have a better indication after an oil change...
Sorry to hear that.
Is it a wet or dry sleeve LS2?
I am almost done my wet sleeve LS7 build by Steve.
What gaskets did you use and what did you torque them too?
Hope you have it sorted and it is just left over from the previous issues.
Is it a wet or dry sleeve LS2?
I am almost done my wet sleeve LS7 build by Steve.
What gaskets did you use and what did you torque them too?
Hope you have it sorted and it is just left over from the previous issues.
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It is a dry sleeve LS2 block with LS7 Darton sleeves.
I used cometic gaskets, no copper spray per recommendation from cometic, as they already come with a coating on them, and i torqued ARP head studs down to 85ftlbs.
I used cometic gaskets, no copper spray per recommendation from cometic, as they already come with a coating on them, and i torqued ARP head studs down to 85ftlbs.
That torque seems high, unless it is the newest ARP stud kit which they recommend 80ft.lbs with ARP lube.
I have had a tough time getting a consistant answer on the torque to do the heads with. ARP suggests 65lb.ft with their lube on the older than July 08 studs. LS builders that have done numerous LS motors have said 70-75. 85 is higher than anything I have seen, unless they are one of the really high strength alloys.
I would be checking on that number.
BTW, I am not an expert by any means. I am just in the middle of assembling my own motor now and have been neck deep in head torque specs this week.
I have had a tough time getting a consistant answer on the torque to do the heads with. ARP suggests 65lb.ft with their lube on the older than July 08 studs. LS builders that have done numerous LS motors have said 70-75. 85 is higher than anything I have seen, unless they are one of the really high strength alloys.
I would be checking on that number.
BTW, I am not an expert by any means. I am just in the middle of assembling my own motor now and have been neck deep in head torque specs this week.
Last edited by RAMPANT; Aug 20, 2008 at 09:43 PM.
Check your coolant. If you have oil in your coolant, you are fubarred. If not, you are probably OK. Change the oil again and it shoudl clear up.
Don't ask me how I know, I just do.....
Don't ask me how I know, I just do.....
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From: Fort Worth, TX
Rampant, you're right, I torqued them down to 80 ftlbs, not 85, but I suppose that is a bit high. I don't think 5ftlbs will really make much a difference though.
There is not a spit of oil in my coolant, so I suppose I'm ok.
I ended up running it at the track today regardless haha. Just couldn't resist, esp since it was my first time out.
First time down the track in my life, netted me a 12.96 at a 114.74 with a 2.3 60ft. Fastest time I got a 12.80 at 115.34 with a 2.24 60ft, spinning the whole way through first gear at about 30-40% throttle haha. I'm happy since I'm at full weight, shitting driving, and street tires.
There is not a spit of oil in my coolant, so I suppose I'm ok.
I ended up running it at the track today regardless haha. Just couldn't resist, esp since it was my first time out.
First time down the track in my life, netted me a 12.96 at a 114.74 with a 2.3 60ft. Fastest time I got a 12.80 at 115.34 with a 2.24 60ft, spinning the whole way through first gear at about 30-40% throttle haha. I'm happy since I'm at full weight, shitting driving, and street tires.
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coolant in oil Are you using the correct Cometic head gasket?
Spray a light coating of copper head gasket spray on the gaskets and let stand a few minutes before installing. Torque to 75 ft./lbs. with ARP lube.
Start engine, get up to operating temperature - drive it, then shut it off and let cool down preferably over night. Retorque heads back to 75 ft./lbs. You must loosen off one nut at a time and bring back to torque in the proper order. Same technique for the MID sleeves or any aluminum block whether sleeved or not.
Steve
Spray a light coating of copper head gasket spray on the gaskets and let stand a few minutes before installing. Torque to 75 ft./lbs. with ARP lube.
Start engine, get up to operating temperature - drive it, then shut it off and let cool down preferably over night. Retorque heads back to 75 ft./lbs. You must loosen off one nut at a time and bring back to torque in the proper order. Same technique for the MID sleeves or any aluminum block whether sleeved or not.
Steve
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Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
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From: Fort Worth, TX
Hello Steve,
Thanks for dropping in!
I did not use the copper spray, per cometic, i talked to several tech's there, and they said that they already come with a coating, and to not use any before install as it is not needed. I used C5318 gaskets, but on a 4.150" bore 71thou thickness. I had to order custom 71thou gaskets to get me more quench clearance as my pistons came out the hole more than what was accounted for when the motor was first built. Made sure all the coolant passages lined up before I installed the heads.
As far as the head install, heads were decked 15 thou. I did not know, nor read anywhere that you had to reloosen and retorque all the studs once the heads were installed. These studs are already used, and are not brand new, as I reused the ones that I already had. So, I did not know that you have to do that with used studs, I thought it was only with new ones. Also, ARP changed their recommended torque specs to 80 ftlbs with ARP lube, and is what I was told to torque them down to from their techs.
Also, motor was started, allowed to get to full temp, twice, for break in of the replacement springs i installed. It was finally driven after that.
Does this sound about right? Or did I really **** this up.....
Thanks for dropping in!
I did not use the copper spray, per cometic, i talked to several tech's there, and they said that they already come with a coating, and to not use any before install as it is not needed. I used C5318 gaskets, but on a 4.150" bore 71thou thickness. I had to order custom 71thou gaskets to get me more quench clearance as my pistons came out the hole more than what was accounted for when the motor was first built. Made sure all the coolant passages lined up before I installed the heads.
As far as the head install, heads were decked 15 thou. I did not know, nor read anywhere that you had to reloosen and retorque all the studs once the heads were installed. These studs are already used, and are not brand new, as I reused the ones that I already had. So, I did not know that you have to do that with used studs, I thought it was only with new ones. Also, ARP changed their recommended torque specs to 80 ftlbs with ARP lube, and is what I was told to torque them down to from their techs.
Also, motor was started, allowed to get to full temp, twice, for break in of the replacement springs i installed. It was finally driven after that.
Does this sound about right? Or did I really **** this up.....
gaskets I recommend and use the LS1 MID gasket for the LS2 LS7 dry sleeve applications. If the coolant holes lined up as you say, you should be OK with the gasket you used. The LS1 and LS2-LS7 coolant holes are not in the same place. It just so happens the LS1 MID gasket hole locations line up exactly for the LS2 and LS7 blocks.
I have had problems with coolant seepage out the sides of the block without gasket spray. You don't need much, just a light coating.
Any engine using aluminum heads or block and heads should have a retorque. Doesn't matter whether the fasteners are new or used. The torque to yield fasteners are an exception. Those fasteners are actually over torqued compared to standard race type fasteners.
Regarding torque load. You do not want to have the block honed with deck plates at 65 ft./lbs. on the fasteners and then assemble the engine with 80 ft./lbs. on the fasteners. There is no way the cylinders are going to be round if you do that. Fine however if the honing was also done at 80 ft./lbs.
I don't want to have a problem pulling the threads out of the block which is why I stick with 75 ft./lbs. I never had a problem blowing gaskets at 65 by the way.
Steve
I have had problems with coolant seepage out the sides of the block without gasket spray. You don't need much, just a light coating.
Any engine using aluminum heads or block and heads should have a retorque. Doesn't matter whether the fasteners are new or used. The torque to yield fasteners are an exception. Those fasteners are actually over torqued compared to standard race type fasteners.
Regarding torque load. You do not want to have the block honed with deck plates at 65 ft./lbs. on the fasteners and then assemble the engine with 80 ft./lbs. on the fasteners. There is no way the cylinders are going to be round if you do that. Fine however if the honing was also done at 80 ft./lbs.
I don't want to have a problem pulling the threads out of the block which is why I stick with 75 ft./lbs. I never had a problem blowing gaskets at 65 by the way.
Steve
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Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
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From: Fort Worth, TX
This is such a pain....
Should I replace the head gaskets again? Or can I loosen them, and retorque to 75, or is the gasket already toast? I honestly have no idea what torque the deck plate was at when the block was machined, and I have no way of finding out, as the person who built my motor has passed away.
Do the guys who purchase long blocks from the sponsors need to retorque their setups? I have never heard of anyone doing that, so should they be doing this!?
Should I replace the head gaskets again? Or can I loosen them, and retorque to 75, or is the gasket already toast? I honestly have no idea what torque the deck plate was at when the block was machined, and I have no way of finding out, as the person who built my motor has passed away.
Do the guys who purchase long blocks from the sponsors need to retorque their setups? I have never heard of anyone doing that, so should they be doing this!?
I recommend and use the LS1 MID gasket for the LS2 LS7 dry sleeve applications. If the coolant holes lined up as you say, you should be OK with the gasket you used. The LS1 and LS2-LS7 coolant holes are not in the same place. It just so happens the LS1 MID gasket hole locations line up exactly for the LS2 and LS7 blocks.
I have had problems with coolant seepage out the sides of the block without gasket spray. You don't need much, just a light coating.
Any engine using aluminum heads or block and heads should have a retorque. Doesn't matter whether the fasteners are new or used. The torque to yield fasteners are an exception. Those fasteners are actually over torqued compared to standard race type fasteners.
Regarding torque load. You do not want to have the block honed with deck plates at 65 ft./lbs. on the fasteners and then assemble the engine with 80 ft./lbs. on the fasteners. There is no way the cylinders are going to be round if you do that. Fine however if the honing was also done at 80 ft./lbs.
I don't want to have a problem pulling the threads out of the block which is why I stick with 75 ft./lbs. I never had a problem blowing gaskets at 65 by the way.
Steve
I have had problems with coolant seepage out the sides of the block without gasket spray. You don't need much, just a light coating.
Any engine using aluminum heads or block and heads should have a retorque. Doesn't matter whether the fasteners are new or used. The torque to yield fasteners are an exception. Those fasteners are actually over torqued compared to standard race type fasteners.
Regarding torque load. You do not want to have the block honed with deck plates at 65 ft./lbs. on the fasteners and then assemble the engine with 80 ft./lbs. on the fasteners. There is no way the cylinders are going to be round if you do that. Fine however if the honing was also done at 80 ft./lbs.
I don't want to have a problem pulling the threads out of the block which is why I stick with 75 ft./lbs. I never had a problem blowing gaskets at 65 by the way.
Steve
Steve, would there be problems running a factory ls7 head gasket on a resleeved ls1 block (MTI sleeves) with ls7 heads?? just wondering..
retorque Retorque now. I think you will find the fasteners looser than when you installed the heads.
Read the installation instructions on Darton's site. I have everything spelled out in the LS1 tech manual. I've been doing this work for thirty six years now. If I tell you to retorque, retorque. I always do that on the dyno after the warm up cool down cycle. Even on iron blocks. I don't like replacing blown head gaskets.
Regarding the LS7 head gasket. You need to check the coolant holes between the cylinders to see if they line up with the holes in the block. If they do you are fine.
Steve
Read the installation instructions on Darton's site. I have everything spelled out in the LS1 tech manual. I've been doing this work for thirty six years now. If I tell you to retorque, retorque. I always do that on the dyno after the warm up cool down cycle. Even on iron blocks. I don't like replacing blown head gaskets.
Regarding the LS7 head gasket. You need to check the coolant holes between the cylinders to see if they line up with the holes in the block. If they do you are fine.
Steve
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Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Steve Demirjian
Race Engine Development
Oceanside, Ca.
760-630-0450
web: www.raceenginedevelopment.com/
e-mail: race-engine-development@***.net
Thread Starter
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From: Fort Worth, TX
Retorque now. I think you will find the fasteners looser than when you installed the heads.
Read the installation instructions on Darton's site. I have everything spelled out in the LS1 tech manual. I've been doing this work for thirty six years now. If I tell you to retorque, retorque. I always do that on the dyno after the warm up cool down cycle. Even on iron blocks. I don't like replacing blown head gaskets.
Regarding the LS7 head gasket. You need to check the coolant holes between the cylinders to see if they line up with the holes in the block. If they do you are fine.
Steve
Read the installation instructions on Darton's site. I have everything spelled out in the LS1 tech manual. I've been doing this work for thirty six years now. If I tell you to retorque, retorque. I always do that on the dyno after the warm up cool down cycle. Even on iron blocks. I don't like replacing blown head gaskets.
Regarding the LS7 head gasket. You need to check the coolant holes between the cylinders to see if they line up with the holes in the block. If they do you are fine.
Steve
I've put about 300 miles on the motor since the headgasket swap, with a few WOT runs, and 3 passes on the track. Should I re-torque to 75ftlbs, or 80 like it was at first?
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From: Fort Worth, TX
Reminds of when I went to Auto Zone to get an axle seal for the 9" in my car. Kid just had to know the year/make/model. He just wouldn't believe me when I told him it didn't matter....
