n0ob questions LS1 vs. LS7
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Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Rolesville, NC
Warhark or Dart blocks.
PS
Does GM still make the LS1 Block? The LS6 block yes, but the LS1 was eliminated to do poor oiling and cooling. Then the LS6 block was designed.
The the LS7 and LS2 blocks. Now the LS3, which still has its challenges
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Teching In
Joined: Aug 2008
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I'm looking at a 20K budget.
If I'm able to do it at a lower cost I'd be very happy.
Getting it just right is more important than the budget. I'd rather break the budget and pay 21k for the perfect engine than stay on budget and buy something I'm not happy with.
The lower the cost the sooner I can start the build...
If I'm able to do it at a lower cost I'd be very happy.
Getting it just right is more important than the budget. I'd rather break the budget and pay 21k for the perfect engine than stay on budget and buy something I'm not happy with.
The lower the cost the sooner I can start the build...
I'm looking at a 20K budget.
If I'm able to do it at a lower cost I'd be very happy.
Getting it just right is more important than the budget. I'd rather break the budget and pay 21k for the perfect engine than stay on budget and buy something I'm not happy with.
The lower the cost the sooner I can start the build...
If I'm able to do it at a lower cost I'd be very happy.
Getting it just right is more important than the budget. I'd rather break the budget and pay 21k for the perfect engine than stay on budget and buy something I'm not happy with.
The lower the cost the sooner I can start the build...
You could also do 402 with a 88mm on 15psi and make 1000bhp all day. Probably be a little more and I would imagine at least 16k.
Nate
Talk to toneloc or something similar on here. He did a 441ci ls7 based motor and did 740flywheel with a carb, 11:1 compression, pump gas, hydraulic roller motor. With a little more compression, solid roller, and 200 shot, you're right there at your 1000bhp goal and would probably be around 14k.
You could also do 402 with a 88mm on 15psi and make 1000bhp all day. Probably be a little more and I would imagine at least 16k.
Nate
You could also do 402 with a 88mm on 15psi and make 1000bhp all day. Probably be a little more and I would imagine at least 16k.
Nate
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 19
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I've been trying to do my homework and as always new engines pose new questions. Anywho, here it goes...
The LS7 seams like the engine to beat, everyone is raving about them and at first the look perfect. Still I'd like your opinion on this:
Start with a LS2 block, resleeve with Danton sleeves 4.125" Bore.
Get a light-weight 4.00" stroke forged crank.
Use GM Stock Rods from the LS7 (Titanium).
Go with ported LS7 heads, I've seen flow numbers in the 386cfm area with 4.125" bores. This way you get the nice Ti-Valves and stuff...
Have a custom cam made and get a nice solid roller set-up.
Get a good carb conversion going.
What do you think? Am I getting closer?
Are the LS7 pistons any good or should I be looking at the after market pistons right away?
The LS7 seams like the engine to beat, everyone is raving about them and at first the look perfect. Still I'd like your opinion on this:
Start with a LS2 block, resleeve with Danton sleeves 4.125" Bore.
Get a light-weight 4.00" stroke forged crank.
Use GM Stock Rods from the LS7 (Titanium).
Go with ported LS7 heads, I've seen flow numbers in the 386cfm area with 4.125" bores. This way you get the nice Ti-Valves and stuff...
Have a custom cam made and get a nice solid roller set-up.
Get a good carb conversion going.
What do you think? Am I getting closer?
Are the LS7 pistons any good or should I be looking at the after market pistons right away?
I've been trying to do my homework and as always new engines pose new questions. Anywho, here it goes...
The LS7 seams like the engine to beat, everyone is raving about them and at first the look perfect. Still I'd like your opinion on this:
Start with a LS2 block, resleeve with Danton sleeves 4.125" Bore.
Get a light-weight 4.00" stroke forged crank.
Use GM Stock Rods from the LS7 (Titanium).
Go with ported LS7 heads, I've seen flow numbers in the 386cfm area with 4.125" bores. This way you get the nice Ti-Valves and stuff...
Have a custom cam made and get a nice solid roller set-up.
Get a good carb conversion going.
What do you think? Am I getting closer?
Are the LS7 pistons any good or should I be looking at the after market pistons right away?
The LS7 seams like the engine to beat, everyone is raving about them and at first the look perfect. Still I'd like your opinion on this:
Start with a LS2 block, resleeve with Danton sleeves 4.125" Bore.
Get a light-weight 4.00" stroke forged crank.
Use GM Stock Rods from the LS7 (Titanium).
Go with ported LS7 heads, I've seen flow numbers in the 386cfm area with 4.125" bores. This way you get the nice Ti-Valves and stuff...
Have a custom cam made and get a nice solid roller set-up.
Get a good carb conversion going.
What do you think? Am I getting closer?
Are the LS7 pistons any good or should I be looking at the after market pistons right away?
Go with aftermarket rods. For an all NA application, maybe on the stockers, but if you plan on spraying it with a healthy shot, personally I would go with aftermarket forged steel pieces. What you would give up in weight, you would more than make up in strength. JMHO
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I've been trying to do my homework and as always new engines pose new questions. Anywho, here it goes...
The LS7 seams like the engine to beat, everyone is raving about them and at first the look perfect. Still I'd like your opinion on this:
Start with a LS2 block, resleeve with Danton sleeves 4.125" Bore.
Get a light-weight 4.00" stroke forged crank.
Use GM Stock Rods from the LS7 (Titanium).
Go with ported LS7 heads, I've seen flow numbers in the 386cfm area with 4.125" bores. This way you get the nice Ti-Valves and stuff...
Have a custom cam made and get a nice solid roller set-up.
Get a good carb conversion going.
What do you think? Am I getting closer?
Are the LS7 pistons any good or should I be looking at the after market pistons right away?
The LS7 seams like the engine to beat, everyone is raving about them and at first the look perfect. Still I'd like your opinion on this:
Start with a LS2 block, resleeve with Danton sleeves 4.125" Bore.
Get a light-weight 4.00" stroke forged crank.
Use GM Stock Rods from the LS7 (Titanium).
Go with ported LS7 heads, I've seen flow numbers in the 386cfm area with 4.125" bores. This way you get the nice Ti-Valves and stuff...
Have a custom cam made and get a nice solid roller set-up.
Get a good carb conversion going.
What do you think? Am I getting closer?
Are the LS7 pistons any good or should I be looking at the after market pistons right away?
The sleeves are just way too finicky to be in a 1000hp combo. If it were my build, I wouldn't even consider any of the aluminum blocks and just get an LSX. There are just too many advantages the LSX block offers that you are really gonna want in something like this. To throw it by the wayside just to save about 100lbs would be a mistake, IMO. The LSX could potentially net you more cubes (making 1000hp that much easier), and WILL still cost less than a sleeved LS2.
Forget stock rods, pistons, or any other nonsense. The LS7's "titanium" rods are merely powdered metal rods, like the process used for the stock LS1-LS6, but with titanium in it. It is not even close to being in the same category as a "true" titanium rod, like from GRP for example. Steel would be OK for about 8000 RPM or so, but depending on how much of a racecar you're trying to make here (racecars usually don't pass emissions) aluminum would probably be a better choice.
Now, as already mentioned, 8000 RPM is the goal here. In that case, forget GM heads (unless you have $$$ for C5R's). GM factory heads are notorious for having a minimal amount of material between the port ceiling and the valve spring pocket *cough* TSP *cough*. Again, if it were my build I would look at a nice aftermarket casting, like ETP's stuff, for the extra material under the spring pocket. Trust me, it's a nice thing to have with the kind of spring pressures you'll be running on that solid roller to turn 8000RPM. Not to mention the thicker decks, and stronger aluminum casting.
I do like the carb idea, though.
What are you really looking for? Does it have to be an aluminum block?
If so then a sleeved ls2 427 and some aftermarket heads. ET, All Pro both have LS7 heads that flow and will handle the setup your talking about. More material to and in and around the rocker bosses. 6 bolt options... much much better choices but its all about money and how do you have to spend.
I wasn't going to say what KCS said about the LS7 block but it is the reason I'm using a sleeved Ls2 instead. Some don't agree so I stay out of it, but I advise my customers about it if they want to use the block for FI applications.
If so then a sleeved ls2 427 and some aftermarket heads. ET, All Pro both have LS7 heads that flow and will handle the setup your talking about. More material to and in and around the rocker bosses. 6 bolt options... much much better choices but its all about money and how do you have to spend.
I wasn't going to say what KCS said about the LS7 block but it is the reason I'm using a sleeved Ls2 instead. Some don't agree so I stay out of it, but I advise my customers about it if they want to use the block for FI applications.
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Aug 2008
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That's why I love these forums. You get the information you need and no fancy advertising. 
I'm learning a lot here...
99blancoSS>I need it to be light! ET 8.9x/9.1x @ 2800lbs race weight. PG Tranny -> 700fwhp N/A, add spray if necessary. (I'm trying for 2200lbs/1000kg empty with no fuel)
I'm learning a lot here...
99blancoSS>I need it to be light! ET 8.9x/9.1x @ 2800lbs race weight. PG Tranny -> 700fwhp N/A, add spray if necessary. (I'm trying for 2200lbs/1000kg empty with no fuel)
Well whats your budget? Are you comfortable with a solid roller? What's your time frame for building it? You can certainly accomplish your goals in a few different n/a configurations. Your only talking about 580-600 rwhp so plenty well within range and no real reason to get exotic with the build. I'll sen you a pm and exchange a few idea with you. I can call you as well. A 408 will do what you want so we can use a 416 LS3 or build a semi radical 403. More cubes the better of course but we have a few options in aluminum. All depends on your budget. We can re-sleeve an LS2 and make a 457 for you if you want so it's really a budget question for us.
Thread Starter
Teching In
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99blancoSS> I was counting on a solid roller. 457ci from a LS2? That sounds wicked but can it take the high rpm? How about the head gaskets? With that big a bore I would think there isn't very much gasket left between the cylinders? Better to go with a 427 and keep it safe? But hey... if it doable it will make a he** of a machine.
You need to send a pm to Robin L on here. I think he's one of the mods. He built a 454 lsx block motor that spun to 9300 rpm I think it made a lil above 900 hp on the dyno. There is a video of of it somewhere on here.
Whay has nobody suggested the C5R Block?? I thought they were the most durable Aluminum block? Id be shooting for an LSx Block myself if I was in the budget to build a 1000hp N2o motor
If you are looking for 1000 hp and want to maintain any sembalnce of being street legal, you will have to start looking at turbos/blowers. You could possibly do it with a 300-350 shot, but the turbo route would be more reliable.
The first thing I would buy is a liquid cooling setup for your credit card, any way you do it, it will be expensive.
The first thing I would buy is a liquid cooling setup for your credit card, any way you do it, it will be expensive.
Check out Katech's Value 427 shortblock: http://www.katechengines.com/street_...tail.php?id=38
This is a bored and sleeved LS2 block with premium components for $6,950. You can option for high or low compression pistions, etc.
Here's a great writeup by GM High Tech magazine on the Value Shortlbock:
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...ine/index.html
This is a bored and sleeved LS2 block with premium components for $6,950. You can option for high or low compression pistions, etc.
Here's a great writeup by GM High Tech magazine on the Value Shortlbock:
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...ine/index.html
