my 402 is almost finished, any advice?
09-12-2008, 01:46 AM
#22
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I took the rockers off anyways... The bolts came out, cleaned the threads with brake cleaner then blown out with compressed air, then put the studs in, red loctite thinly applied down the bolt.
and hand tight.. the washer flat side facing down on the head, torqued to 65ftlb, then 75 on 2nd pass... middle towards out sequence...
and hand tight.. the washer flat side facing down on the head, torqued to 65ftlb, then 75 on 2nd pass... middle towards out sequence...
09-12-2008, 11:19 AM
#23
doooood, you put loctite on the studs?!
Did you read the directions from ARP? You're not supposed to use loctite on the head studs. Infact you're supposed to use the ARP molylube on both sides (a generous amount at that) and torque to 75 ftlbs. Also, if this is the first time torquing the studs, you're supposed to torque them, back them off, then torque them three times to beakin the threads, and make sure you're getting full clamping force.
Did you read the directions from ARP? You're not supposed to use loctite on the head studs. Infact you're supposed to use the ARP molylube on both sides (a generous amount at that) and torque to 75 ftlbs. Also, if this is the first time torquing the studs, you're supposed to torque them, back them off, then torque them three times to beakin the threads, and make sure you're getting full clamping force.
09-12-2008, 12:46 PM
#24
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doooood, you put loctite on the studs?!
Did you read the directions from ARP? You're not supposed to use loctite on the head studs. Infact you're supposed to use the ARP molylube on both sides (a generous amount at that) and torque to 75 ftlbs. Also, if this is the first time torquing the studs, you're supposed to torque them, back them off, then torque them three times to beakin the threads, and make sure you're getting full clamping force.
Did you read the directions from ARP? You're not supposed to use loctite on the head studs. Infact you're supposed to use the ARP molylube on both sides (a generous amount at that) and torque to 75 ftlbs. Also, if this is the first time torquing the studs, you're supposed to torque them, back them off, then torque them three times to beakin the threads, and make sure you're getting full clamping force.
ediT: I dont think there will be a problem, and its a brand new motor with no heat cycle yet, so I think im fine
Last edited by LSGunZ28; 09-13-2008 at 04:51 AM.
09-13-2008, 06:40 PM
#25
Also, its a good thing you don't have any heat cycles yet. The studs need to be retorqued several times to break in the threads. If that is not done, then you're running the risk of the studs not being torqued down fully, and getting a complete clamping force.
Lastly, make sure you re-torque the heads after a few heat cycles, preferably after a full nights cool down, the studs may loosen up on you.....don't ask me how I know...
09-13-2008, 08:58 PM
#26
Yeah I would say that locktite was a big mistake to. Will pyobalby never be able to get the heads off without taking the heater box out, or pulling the motor. Reason I say that is that you have to take out a couple of studs on the passenger side head closest to the firewall for the heads to come off the motor...at least that was my experience.
09-15-2008, 11:58 AM
#27
Yeah I would say that locktite was a big mistake to. Will pyobalby never be able to get the heads off without taking the heater box out, or pulling the motor. Reason I say that is that you have to take out a couple of studs on the passenger side head closest to the firewall for the heads to come off the motor...at least that was my experience.
Not at all, I just recently took my heads off and put them back on with all of the studs installed. The only problem that I can forsee is when someone wants to clean the deck of the block, it makes life a lot easier to be able to remove the studs. Otherwise, it really shouldn't be a problem unless for some reason the studs need to be removed.
09-15-2008, 03:09 PM
#29
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I'm pretty sure it says right on the instructions to use the moly-lube or 10w30 weight motor oil on the studs (i don't have the instructions handy at the moment). They're going to be stuck in the block now, and a simple allen wrench may not be able to get them out. I had a stud get stuck in the block, and I had to use a stud remover, cause an allen wrench just broke, and the two nut trick didn't work. Trashed the stud and had to get a replacement.
Also, its a good thing you don't have any heat cycles yet. The studs need to be retorqued several times to break in the threads. If that is not done, then you're running the risk of the studs not being torqued down fully, and getting a complete clamping force.
Lastly, make sure you re-torque the heads after a few heat cycles, preferably after a full nights cool down, the studs may loosen up on you.....don't ask me how I know...
Also, its a good thing you don't have any heat cycles yet. The studs need to be retorqued several times to break in the threads. If that is not done, then you're running the risk of the studs not being torqued down fully, and getting a complete clamping force.
Lastly, make sure you re-torque the heads after a few heat cycles, preferably after a full nights cool down, the studs may loosen up on you.....don't ask me how I know...
so should I retorque them now? or after a few heat cycles?
09-15-2008, 04:07 PM
#30
If you have only torqued them once, then you need to re-torque them two more times, in the same sequence as usual, this will break-in the threads.
Once you have run the vehicle, a few heat cycles (preferrably one), you then need to go back and retorque ONE more time after a heat cycle to insure that the studs stayed in place once everything warmed up and cooled down.
Trust me, I understand this is a COMPLETE pain in the *** because you have to pull off the valvecovers/rockers, and drop the headers (dont' worry about the top 5 studs so the intake can stay on...), but trust me, please do this. This will guarantee that the studs have seated properly, and that your gaskets have sealed up completely. Otherwise you run the risk of coolant in the oil and trashing your bearings.
When you re-torque, just back the nut off, and then return it to full torque, in the torque sequence.
Once you have run the vehicle, a few heat cycles (preferrably one), you then need to go back and retorque ONE more time after a heat cycle to insure that the studs stayed in place once everything warmed up and cooled down.
Trust me, I understand this is a COMPLETE pain in the *** because you have to pull off the valvecovers/rockers, and drop the headers (dont' worry about the top 5 studs so the intake can stay on...), but trust me, please do this. This will guarantee that the studs have seated properly, and that your gaskets have sealed up completely. Otherwise you run the risk of coolant in the oil and trashing your bearings.
When you re-torque, just back the nut off, and then return it to full torque, in the torque sequence.
09-15-2008, 04:17 PM
#31
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If you have only torqued them once, then you need to re-torque them two more times, in the same sequence as usual, this will break-in the threads.
Once you have run the vehicle, a few heat cycles (preferrably one), you then need to go back and retorque ONE more time after a heat cycle to insure that the studs stayed in place once everything warmed up and cooled down.
Trust me, I understand this is a COMPLETE pain in the *** because you have to pull off the valvecovers/rockers, and drop the headers (dont' worry about the top 5 studs so the intake can stay on...), but trust me, please do this. This will guarantee that the studs have seated properly, and that your gaskets have sealed up completely. Otherwise you run the risk of coolant in the oil and trashing your bearings.
When you re-torque, just back the nut off, and then return it to full torque, in the torque sequence.
Once you have run the vehicle, a few heat cycles (preferrably one), you then need to go back and retorque ONE more time after a heat cycle to insure that the studs stayed in place once everything warmed up and cooled down.
Trust me, I understand this is a COMPLETE pain in the *** because you have to pull off the valvecovers/rockers, and drop the headers (dont' worry about the top 5 studs so the intake can stay on...), but trust me, please do this. This will guarantee that the studs have seated properly, and that your gaskets have sealed up completely. Otherwise you run the risk of coolant in the oil and trashing your bearings.
When you re-torque, just back the nut off, and then return it to full torque, in the torque sequence.
because I went over the torque 2 times alreayd, but never backed off the nut.
09-15-2008, 04:25 PM
#32
Oh yea, you have to back the nut off, and then torque it back to spec. Do that twice, then you're good.
Once you have one or a few heat cycles, do one more re-torque, and you're done. Just keep an eye on the coolant and make sure it isn't disappearing.
Once you have one or a few heat cycles, do one more re-torque, and you're done. Just keep an eye on the coolant and make sure it isn't disappearing.
09-15-2008, 10:07 PM
#33
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It says nothing in the ARP instructions to retque the nuts btw, but it mentions to not put red loctite, unless i want to take the studs back out one day, but from what I understand it says to torque the nuts on the studs then remove, apply loctite , then torque with the loctite (thats what I understood)
09-16-2008, 12:12 AM
#34
It does not say anywhere in the instructions to use loctite, so maybe you meant the lube. You're supposed to use the lube on the studs as they go in the block AND on the nut when it goes on the stud, and torque to 75ftlbs.
As far as the re-torquing, yes, you need to torque the nut on the stud, like the instructions say, but do it three times to ensure a total breakin of the threads (most engine builders do this). You can do this now before you start-up by just backing off one nut at a time and retorquing.
After a heat cycle, you must retorque the heads one last time to make sure that none of them backed off. If you don't want to do this part, thats up to you if you want to risk it, but I'm just informing you on how its supposed to be done. You can either do it right, or you can do it half-right; of course thats up to you.
I will tell you though, that after running a few heat cycles, I had to retorque, and some of the nuts/studs did back off slightly, so you have a very high chance of it happening. Whether it happens for you at 1 mile or 8k miles is unknown.
As far as the re-torquing, yes, you need to torque the nut on the stud, like the instructions say, but do it three times to ensure a total breakin of the threads (most engine builders do this). You can do this now before you start-up by just backing off one nut at a time and retorquing.
After a heat cycle, you must retorque the heads one last time to make sure that none of them backed off. If you don't want to do this part, thats up to you if you want to risk it, but I'm just informing you on how its supposed to be done. You can either do it right, or you can do it half-right; of course thats up to you.
I will tell you though, that after running a few heat cycles, I had to retorque, and some of the nuts/studs did back off slightly, so you have a very high chance of it happening. Whether it happens for you at 1 mile or 8k miles is unknown.
09-16-2008, 02:16 AM
#35
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It does not say anywhere in the instructions to use loctite, so maybe you meant the lube. You're supposed to use the lube on the studs as they go in the block AND on the nut when it goes on the stud, and torque to 75ftlbs.
As far as the re-torquing, yes, you need to torque the nut on the stud, like the instructions say, but do it three times to ensure a total breakin of the threads (most engine builders do this). You can do this now before you start-up by just backing off one nut at a time and retorquing.
After a heat cycle, you must retorque the heads one last time to make sure that none of them backed off. If you don't want to do this part, thats up to you if you want to risk it, but I'm just informing you on how its supposed to be done. You can either do it right, or you can do it half-right; of course thats up to you.
I will tell you though, that after running a few heat cycles, I had to retorque, and some of the nuts/studs did back off slightly, so you have a very high chance of it happening. Whether it happens for you at 1 mile or 8k miles is unknown.
As far as the re-torquing, yes, you need to torque the nut on the stud, like the instructions say, but do it three times to ensure a total breakin of the threads (most engine builders do this). You can do this now before you start-up by just backing off one nut at a time and retorquing.
After a heat cycle, you must retorque the heads one last time to make sure that none of them backed off. If you don't want to do this part, thats up to you if you want to risk it, but I'm just informing you on how its supposed to be done. You can either do it right, or you can do it half-right; of course thats up to you.
I will tell you though, that after running a few heat cycles, I had to retorque, and some of the nuts/studs did back off slightly, so you have a very high chance of it happening. Whether it happens for you at 1 mile or 8k miles is unknown.
Im not saying what you are saying is wrong, im just mentioning that it didnt say so in teh instructions...
