New LT1 for 2014 6.2l alum block
12-16-2012, 09:59 PM
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Is the truck version of the 6.2 identical to the LT1 other than maybe differences in vvt tuning to focus on more low end, less top end? A cam difference maybe? I noticed the intake was different... longer runners for torque I'm assuming.
Any other elaborations on the truck engines vs the LT1 specifically would be appreciated.
Are we going to see price hikes in the vehicles with the new engines?
You gave the impression that the 450 hp 450 torque were conservative guesses at the LT1 output. Can we also assume the 26 mpg is also conservative?
Thanks for the replies.
Any other elaborations on the truck engines vs the LT1 specifically would be appreciated.
Are we going to see price hikes in the vehicles with the new engines?
You gave the impression that the 450 hp 450 torque were conservative guesses at the LT1 output. Can we also assume the 26 mpg is also conservative?
Thanks for the replies.
The question above made ponder... will GM itself be diving farther into the performance aftermarket with this gen V engine project? For example.. offering different stage performance packages, different cams, tunes, etc. It seems the previous attempts were only intake/catback exhaust, etc.
Now, if we're done sniffing each other out, can you please unravel the statement, "And makes it completely UNLESS when variable Valve timing (VVT-CVVT-VVC) is being used, the Dynamic Compression, is fixed when the engine is blue printed and built and that never changes during the running of the engine."? I'm having trouble making sense of that.
12-16-2012, 10:54 PM
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Please stop treating the Bernoulli Principle and its variations like they were something new that were brought to the table for the LT1's design. This simply isn't true and you look foolish trying to make it so. If you feel I'm being unfair then I submit the many other VVT designs already available in the marketplace today as evidence that I'm not.
All of us appreciate the information brought forth to date but I doubt any of us appreciate being talked down to. "END of Discussion" is simply rude and speaks poorly for you and your employer. I've slung a few lines of NASTRAN in my day and it was many moons before GM decided that CFD was cool. I'm certain there are other practicing engineers reading this thread so let's try to keep this conversation on the level, please.
Now, if we're done sniffing each other out, can you please unravel the statement, "And makes it completely UNLESS when variable Valve timing (VVT-CVVT-VVC) is being used, the Dynamic Compression, is fixed when the engine is blue printed and built and that never changes during the running of the engine."? I'm having trouble making sense of that.
All of us appreciate the information brought forth to date but I doubt any of us appreciate being talked down to. "END of Discussion" is simply rude and speaks poorly for you and your employer. I've slung a few lines of NASTRAN in my day and it was many moons before GM decided that CFD was cool. I'm certain there are other practicing engineers reading this thread so let's try to keep this conversation on the level, please.
Now, if we're done sniffing each other out, can you please unravel the statement, "And makes it completely UNLESS when variable Valve timing (VVT-CVVT-VVC) is being used, the Dynamic Compression, is fixed when the engine is blue printed and built and that never changes during the running of the engine."? I'm having trouble making sense of that.
Bigg Gunz
12-16-2012, 10:59 PM
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I believe he's saying that dynamic compression on an engine is fixed and never changes, unless VVT-CVVT-VVC are used. he has suggested earlier in this thread that the LT1 (or later versions) can vary dynamic compression ratio in order to benefit from different fuels (such as e85).
- bore
- stroke
- rod length
- static compression (ref. clearance volume)
- intake valve events (typically accounted for as intake valve close ABDC)
There are other factors at play but those are the ones that are usually accounted for in engine design. If you work with mission profiles that take the design well above sea level you also have to account for target altitude and, if called for in the design, the effects of artificial atmosphere (boost). Characteristics of the fuel must be accounted for as well as you mention.
Since VVT will vary the intake valve event, and given that the remainder of the primary factors are typically fixed, it's a given that variable dynamic compression is going to be a function of variable intake timing. There is nothing earth-shattering about this revelation, regardless of appeals to Bernoulli's work.
I will reiterate my statement in my original post that nothing about modern engine design is easy. Designing to the requirements is very hard, no doubt about it. The LT1 is obviously one of the most modern engine designs that GM has attempted to bring to market to date. The team associated with that effort should be proud of the results if they hold up in the hands of the consumer. I'm simply pointing out that there's nothing new under the sun with VVT and certainly not with the fundamentals of four stroke engine basics. The Bernoulli Principle isn't being changed here... a variable in dynamic compression calculations is simply being made non-constant, nothing more.
12-16-2012, 11:00 PM
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Every engine operates under equations analogous to Bernoulli's Principle. You may as well say they operate under Newton's Laws of Motion and the 1st Law of Thermodynamics. Mass is conserved, total pressures are a sum of static and dynamic pressures, etc. - there's nothing special about the LT1 in that regard. The models are simply more fine-grained and the torque curve can be adjusted dynamically with variable timing of events.
I'm not saying it's easy and great tech is still great tech... just don't try to kid a kidder. The aero engineer who gave you the idea for your fuel pump isn't the only one in existence, just sayin'
I'm not saying it's easy and great tech is still great tech... just don't try to kid a kidder. The aero engineer who gave you the idea for your fuel pump isn't the only one in existence, just sayin'
Obviously you didn't read the entire thread.
Bigg Gunz
12-16-2012, 11:08 PM
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You obviously are incapable of discussing this reasonably. I'm sorry if it bothers you if other people are grounded in engineering and are well familiar with its fundamentals. You thought you were being clever by referencing the Bernoulli Principle and now you're sore because someone called you on it. Why don't you accept that there are other people in this world that are more than capable of having this discussion with you and let it go.
12-17-2012, 07:31 AM
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Can the ECM respond to a set of Longtube headers and a new intake design? What would happen if you installed a wet nitrous plate kit? How would it react to the change in EGT and richer air/fuel ratio being burned.
12-17-2012, 07:46 AM
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You obviously are incapable of discussing this reasonably. I'm sorry if it bothers you if other people are grounded in engineering and are well familiar with its fundamentals. You thought you were being clever by referencing the Bernoulli Principle and now you're sore because someone called you on it. Why don't you accept that there are other people in this world that are more than capable of having this discussion with you and let it go.
This was stated by me on 11/28/2012 8:22PM in the post of #297 second paragrah #298 continues in great detail in post
In today combustion engineering we work with (Bernoulli's Principle) which is from "Sir Issac Newton" laws itself. Which is why I stated that "Air/Gas moves from High Pressure to Low Pressure easier and faster. This is 99.99999% with ISO standards. And from those laws in physics we work with "Compressible flow in thermodynamics & Compressible flow in fluid dynamics." We can achieve higher VE FLOW Efficiency. This is truly a form of ROCKET SCIENCE no humor at all when I say that.
That was covered 19 DAYS prior to your counter productive arrival & comment. You didn't do your due diligence or have the self integrity to understand the information prior to your comment. And don't even attempt to make this about other engineers as there are 7 engineers that came forward and reached out problems they encountered in previous engines and I am currently helping them solve problems their problems and that was from this very thread alone. Not including the countless others everyday guys that aren't engineers that have reached out for help or better understanding.
That is being reasonable and nothing is wrong with asking questions or asking for help when needed. And honestly I do NOT mind helping anyone. That is what I am here for actually. Or did you NOT read that in prior posts? And I'll repeat myself again below
Clearly and obviously you did NOT read the thread or you would have seen that ....... on 11/28/2012 post #297 second paragraph...I stated "In today combustion engineering we work with (Bernoulli's Principle) which is from "Sir Issac Newton" laws itself. Which is why I stated that "Air/Gas moves from High Pressure to Low Pressure easier and faster. This is 99.99999% with ISO standards. And from those laws in physics we work with "Compressible flow in thermodynamics & Compressible flow in fluid dynamics." We can achieve higher VE FLOW Efficiency. This is truly a form of ROCKET SCIENCE no humor at all when I say that."
In order to have a reasonable/rational discussion. First you must know the topic, simplying saying you favor or is against something without prior understanding of the information is always going to hender the effective flow of ideas and exchanging of views and the project or discussion suffers.
As a consequence, your the now the individual that is now going to extremes in order to cover up his embarrassment/blunder to protect his ego. The text is in Black and Red noted TWICE now... You're avoiding an honest and open discussions for fear you might be proved wrong. Your comment #492 is ridiculous and now your behavior is going extreme. Your post #492 would never existed if you would have just read the thread...or simply taken my suggestion to read post #297 and #298.
No need to continue with this behavior.
Bigg Gunz
12-17-2012, 07:59 AM
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Yes the ECM has the ability to adjust itself for the increase in volume flow from headers and intake etc.
I've discuss this in posted #370 about oxides.... I'm NOT sure what would happen. And that is being 100% honest with you. We do NOT test these engines with oxides. What would happen is anyone guess no two oxide strikes are the same. There are so many different variables with oxide and additional fuel that predicting the ECM response is impossible in my opinion. Then again I'm saying that I really don't know. It could be very bad or it could work.
One thing for sure someone is going to find out sooner rather than later, when these engine are in the hands of the public.
Bigg Gunz
12-17-2012, 08:17 AM
#509
Mr Gunz, as this thread is past 500 posts, it's becoming less likely that newcomers will have read every single post.
Perhaps in more technical forums mostly frequented by pure techno-geeks, this is less of an issue but around here, repeat questions due to not reading the entire thread will be more prevalent.
When you encounter this, I suggest you quickly mention it's already been answered/discussed and move on.
Now, onto my un-answered question: If you can, please tell us what you can about the truck versions of the GenV series. Also, what level/iteration of this engine will make it's way into cars such as the Camaro, upcoming Impala, etc.
Perhaps in more technical forums mostly frequented by pure techno-geeks, this is less of an issue but around here, repeat questions due to not reading the entire thread will be more prevalent.
When you encounter this, I suggest you quickly mention it's already been answered/discussed and move on.
Now, onto my un-answered question: If you can, please tell us what you can about the truck versions of the GenV series. Also, what level/iteration of this engine will make it's way into cars such as the Camaro, upcoming Impala, etc.
12-17-2012, 09:32 AM
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I agree.
This is a very large thread. I'm sorry I missed your previous posts and have had a chance to review them. The information is appreciated but, honestly, you aren't saying anything new there to those of us who are familiar with the principles, equations, and their practical application.
If you truly are a rep for GM you need to take a deep breath and reconsider your approach to posters on this forum. No one at GM should be allowed to treat people in a public forum in the manner you've chosen. I don't believe that, as a GM customer, that's too much to ask.
It takes two to tango and I'm man enough to admit that I can be abrasive at times myself so, in the interest of peace, this is my last post on the topic. I'm sorry we couldn't see things eye to eye. I'm certain if we had the chance to meet and shoot the bull over a beer or two we'd walk away with very different impressions of each other. Perhaps that will happen someday, who knows what the future holds.
This is a very large thread. I'm sorry I missed your previous posts and have had a chance to review them. The information is appreciated but, honestly, you aren't saying anything new there to those of us who are familiar with the principles, equations, and their practical application.
If you truly are a rep for GM you need to take a deep breath and reconsider your approach to posters on this forum. No one at GM should be allowed to treat people in a public forum in the manner you've chosen. I don't believe that, as a GM customer, that's too much to ask.
It takes two to tango and I'm man enough to admit that I can be abrasive at times myself so, in the interest of peace, this is my last post on the topic. I'm sorry we couldn't see things eye to eye. I'm certain if we had the chance to meet and shoot the bull over a beer or two we'd walk away with very different impressions of each other. Perhaps that will happen someday, who knows what the future holds.
12-17-2012, 09:51 AM
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Mr Gunz, as this thread is past 500 posts, it's becoming less likely that newcomers will have read every single post.
Perhaps in more technical forums mostly frequented by pure techno-geeks, this is less of an issue but around here, repeat questions due to not reading the entire thread will be more prevalent.
When you encounter this, I suggest you quickly mention it's already been answered/discussed and move on.
Now, onto my un-answered question: If you can, please tell us what you can about the truck versions of the GenV series. Also, what level/iteration of this engine will make it's way into cars such as the Camaro, upcoming Impala, etc.
Perhaps in more technical forums mostly frequented by pure techno-geeks, this is less of an issue but around here, repeat questions due to not reading the entire thread will be more prevalent.
When you encounter this, I suggest you quickly mention it's already been answered/discussed and move on.
Now, onto my un-answered question: If you can, please tell us what you can about the truck versions of the GenV series. Also, what level/iteration of this engine will make it's way into cars such as the Camaro, upcoming Impala, etc.
Good morning Mr. Paul Bell
I was slightly distracted however I am here to address your question.
The 2014 LT1 will make it into almost all platforms going forward depending on level of performance purchase in a given vehicle. As we are attempting what I feel is the right thing and giving the customer more of a choice in engines for their budgets. One shoe never fits all, so never should a car come with limited engines RPO's. That is how I feel about it but I don't make those decisions.
The truck engines produce a great deal of power however they are slightly detuned in HP output for obvious reasons...trucks are weapons when excessive output is available. The HP output is still above normal of what the market is use too but like I said the engine is detuned. But the torque output is rather high.... slightly excessive for a truck...and between you and I, personally I think it too high and should be brought down by 60lb ft of torque.
Due to there being little parasitic loses in turning the drive train like yesteryear.
Bigg Gunz
12-17-2012, 10:04 AM
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I agree.
This is a very large thread. I'm sorry I missed your previous posts and have had a chance to review them. The information is appreciated but, honestly, you aren't saying anything new there to those of us who are familiar with the principles, equations, and their practical application.
If you truly are a rep for GM you need to take a deep breath and reconsider your approach to posters on this forum. No one at GM should be allowed to treat people in a public forum in the manner you've chosen. I don't believe that, as a GM customer, that's too much to ask.
It takes two to tango and I'm man enough to admit that I can be abrasive at times myself so, in the interest of peace, this is my last post on the topic. I'm sorry we couldn't see things eye to eye. I'm certain if we had the chance to meet and shoot the bull over a beer or two we'd walk away with very different impressions of each other. Perhaps that will happen someday, who knows what the future holds.
This is a very large thread. I'm sorry I missed your previous posts and have had a chance to review them. The information is appreciated but, honestly, you aren't saying anything new there to those of us who are familiar with the principles, equations, and their practical application.
If you truly are a rep for GM you need to take a deep breath and reconsider your approach to posters on this forum. No one at GM should be allowed to treat people in a public forum in the manner you've chosen. I don't believe that, as a GM customer, that's too much to ask.
It takes two to tango and I'm man enough to admit that I can be abrasive at times myself so, in the interest of peace, this is my last post on the topic. I'm sorry we couldn't see things eye to eye. I'm certain if we had the chance to meet and shoot the bull over a beer or two we'd walk away with very different impressions of each other. Perhaps that will happen someday, who knows what the future holds.
Good morning to you sir
And everything is fine. Grey communications are bound to happen in such a LARGE thread as Paul Bell pointed out. I do apologize as sometimes I do come off as insensitive or snuff. Please accept my apology as it is sincere and with warmest regards. And if there is anything I can help you with please advise me. We appreciate NOT only you but the aftermarket and customers as whole, we are all very grateful for the bailout and we know just how lucky we are that the USA tax payer stepped in and saved our ***. WE ARE THANKFUL OF YOU ALL!!
We are going to be giving away a undisclosed amount of these engines complete with ECM of all different output levels later in 2013. If you would like to have a chance at it. PM me your most active email address and I'll enter your name in the database and if your picked. Someone will contact you ask for further information regarding full name and shipping address.
I can honestly tell each and everyone one of you... Performance hasn't nearly peaked if anything these engines are getting more and more powerful.
Bigg Gunz
Last edited by Bigg_Gunz; 12-17-2012 at 10:22 AM.
12-17-2012, 11:59 AM
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We are going to be giving away a undisclosed amount of these engines complete with ECM of all different output levels later in 2013. If you would like to have a chance at it. PM me your most active email address and I'll enter your name in the database and if your picked. Someone will contact you ask for further information regarding full name and shipping address.
I can honestly tell each and everyone one of you... Performance hasn't nearly peaked if anything these engines are getting more and more powerful.
Bigg Gunz
I can honestly tell each and everyone one of you... Performance hasn't nearly peaked if anything these engines are getting more and more powerful.
Bigg Gunz
12-17-2012, 12:38 PM
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As we are attempting what I feel is the right thing and giving the customer more of a choice in engines for their budgets. One shoe never fits all, so never should a car come with limited engines RPO's. That is how I feel about it but I don't make those decisions.
Bigg Gunz
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12-17-2012, 01:01 PM
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12-17-2012, 01:17 PM
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Good morning Mr. Paul Bell
I was slightly distracted however I am here to address your question.
The 2014 LT1 will make it into almost all platforms going forward depending on level of performance purchase in a given vehicle. As we are attempting what I feel is the right thing and giving the customer more of a choice in engines for their budgets. One shoe never fits all, so never should a car come with limited engines RPO's. That is how I feel about it but I don't make those decisions.
The truck engines produce a great deal of power however they are slightly detuned in HP output for obvious reasons...trucks are weapons when excessive output is available. The HP output is still above normal of what the market is use too but like I said the engine is detuned. But the torque output is rather high.... slightly excessive for a truck...and between you and I, personally I think it too high and should be brought down by 60lb ft of torque.
Due to there being little parasitic loses in turning the drive train like yesteryear.
Bigg Gunz
I was slightly distracted however I am here to address your question.
The 2014 LT1 will make it into almost all platforms going forward depending on level of performance purchase in a given vehicle. As we are attempting what I feel is the right thing and giving the customer more of a choice in engines for their budgets. One shoe never fits all, so never should a car come with limited engines RPO's. That is how I feel about it but I don't make those decisions.
The truck engines produce a great deal of power however they are slightly detuned in HP output for obvious reasons...trucks are weapons when excessive output is available. The HP output is still above normal of what the market is use too but like I said the engine is detuned. But the torque output is rather high.... slightly excessive for a truck...and between you and I, personally I think it too high and should be brought down by 60lb ft of torque.
Due to there being little parasitic loses in turning the drive train like yesteryear.
Bigg Gunz
12-17-2012, 01:44 PM
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More people catch that then you had expected?
I, for one, can't wait for these new engines, been waiting a long time for these.
