2014 Corvette LT1: 460 HP @ 6,000 RPM, 465 FT-LB @ 4,600 RPM
06-07-2013, 11:25 PM
#21
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My point wasn't to compare it to a modified engine, my point was GM itself could have easily updated the LS3 to the power level of the new LT1 while keeping excellent reliability. Also, I did compare it to other mass produced engines, did you miss that part?
I didn't say the LS3 was a better motor than the new LT1, quite the opposite actually. My point was that the design is capable of much more than what GM presented.
the LT1's heads will make the LS3 look like a red headed step child.
06-08-2013, 12:25 AM
#22
Strong numbers for the LT1 being stock!
GM always leaves a bit of horsepower on a stock engine. With the new LT1, LT4's and other great late 60's engine moniker are back one can only wonder if there will be a Shelby & Viper killing 700hp L88 C7 in the works!
GM always leaves a bit of horsepower on a stock engine. With the new LT1, LT4's and other great late 60's engine moniker are back one can only wonder if there will be a Shelby & Viper killing 700hp L88 C7 in the works!
06-09-2013, 04:10 PM
#23
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How does duration change with variable advance!?
06-09-2013, 04:30 PM
#24
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He didn't say that. He said the duration can be less, as in less than a comparable cam, and make more power due to the ability to vary valve timing (taking liberties with the last bit). As such it's not necessarily a square comparison with a standard cam.
07-19-2013, 08:50 AM
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anyone see in that SAE paper posted by GM that the piston was relieved just enough to clear the current cam for the exhaust valve. seems like the exhaust is basically maxed for anyone that doesnt want to tear that deep into the motor.
07-21-2013, 01:10 PM
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They cant just go all out with a base C7. There has to be room left for Z06 and ZR1 versions. You want more power then pay more money. Plus there is so much more to a car than just peak power.
07-21-2013, 04:03 PM
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one of the VVT systems being played with is one where the system can adjust in such a way to hold a valve open or closed at any point in the cycle. this would effectively add duration to the camshaft.
07-22-2013, 12:44 AM
#30
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Variable duration isn't possible with a camshaft unless the cam has a different set of lobs for the rocker arms to switch over to (Honda VTEC). However, it is possible with electronically controlled valves. These systems are more than being played with, they are in production. I know the Fiat 500 and Dodge Dart both have "Multiair" engines. Multiair technology allows for variable lift, duration, and timing.
07-24-2013, 08:22 PM
#34
There is much more than a brute power game being played here. These aren't the 60's and 70's land yachts being pushed around. It doesn't take an absurd amount of power to make a fast car.
Big deal the 5.0 boss makes 20 less horsepower than the new lt1. The corvette and any subsequent vehicle the lt variants make it into (Camaro etc...) Will wipe the floor with the boss 302 or anything else simply because of the design of the vehicles and the room to grow. The 302 is maxing out stock components at stock power levels. You won't see people dumping 2 grand into a new mustang and making it much faster than it already is.
Just the design of the engine with 1 cam will make cam kits cheaper than the already in production cam kits for new coyote engines. Not to mention the fact that the larger displacement and direct injection of the lt1 will make it more responsive to mods than a similarly modded coyote.
Ford has been playing the displacement game with gm since the 80's, and has yet to build a vehicle that can totally spank a comparative gm vehicle without a decent mod list or forced induction.
Even today, there is still no replacement for displacement.
07-25-2013, 01:18 PM
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Variable duration isn't possible with a camshaft unless the cam has a different set of lobs for the rocker arms to switch over to (Honda VTEC). However, it is possible with electronically controlled valves. These systems are more than being played with, they are in production. I know the Fiat 500 and Dodge Dart both have "Multiair" engines. Multiair technology allows for variable lift, duration, and timing.
07-25-2013, 01:19 PM
#36
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Exactly...
There is much more than a brute power game being played here. These aren't the 60's and 70's land yachts being pushed around. It doesn't take an absurd amount of power to make a fast car.
Big deal the 5.0 boss makes 20 less horsepower than the new lt1. The corvette and any subsequent vehicle the lt variants make it into (Camaro etc...) Will wipe the floor with the boss 302 or anything else simply because of the design of the vehicles and the room to grow. The 302 is maxing out stock components at stock power levels. You won't see people dumping 2 grand into a new mustang and making it much faster than it already is.
Just the design of the engine with 1 cam will make cam kits cheaper than the already in production cam kits for new coyote engines. Not to mention the fact that the larger displacement and direct injection of the lt1 will make it more responsive to mods than a similarly modded coyote.
Ford has been playing the displacement game with gm since the 80's, and has yet to build a vehicle that can totally spank a comparative gm vehicle without a decent mod list or forced induction.
Even today, there is still no replacement for displacement.
There is much more than a brute power game being played here. These aren't the 60's and 70's land yachts being pushed around. It doesn't take an absurd amount of power to make a fast car.
Big deal the 5.0 boss makes 20 less horsepower than the new lt1. The corvette and any subsequent vehicle the lt variants make it into (Camaro etc...) Will wipe the floor with the boss 302 or anything else simply because of the design of the vehicles and the room to grow. The 302 is maxing out stock components at stock power levels. You won't see people dumping 2 grand into a new mustang and making it much faster than it already is.
Just the design of the engine with 1 cam will make cam kits cheaper than the already in production cam kits for new coyote engines. Not to mention the fact that the larger displacement and direct injection of the lt1 will make it more responsive to mods than a similarly modded coyote.
Ford has been playing the displacement game with gm since the 80's, and has yet to build a vehicle that can totally spank a comparative gm vehicle without a decent mod list or forced induction.
Even today, there is still no replacement for displacement.
07-25-2013, 02:44 PM
#37
I said stock components. How much did that heads and cams cost? My point was, you're not going to dump 2k into a coyote and make it much faster than it already is. With an ls3, 2 grand will take you a whole lot further, as will be the case for the new lt1. Not so much on the ford engines.
07-25-2013, 05:55 PM
#38
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Exactly...
There is much more than a brute power game being played here. These aren't the 60's and 70's land yachts being pushed around. It doesn't take an absurd amount of power to make a fast car.
Big deal the 5.0 boss makes 20 less horsepower than the new lt1. The corvette and any subsequent vehicle the lt variants make it into (Camaro etc...) Will wipe the floor with the boss 302 or anything else simply because of the design of the vehicles and the room to grow. The 302 is maxing out stock components at stock power levels. You won't see people dumping 2 grand into a new mustang and making it much faster than it already is.
Just the design of the engine with 1 cam will make cam kits cheaper than the already in production cam kits for new coyote engines. Not to mention the fact that the larger displacement and direct injection of the lt1 will make it more responsive to mods than a similarly modded coyote.
There is much more than a brute power game being played here. These aren't the 60's and 70's land yachts being pushed around. It doesn't take an absurd amount of power to make a fast car.
Big deal the 5.0 boss makes 20 less horsepower than the new lt1. The corvette and any subsequent vehicle the lt variants make it into (Camaro etc...) Will wipe the floor with the boss 302 or anything else simply because of the design of the vehicles and the room to grow. The 302 is maxing out stock components at stock power levels. You won't see people dumping 2 grand into a new mustang and making it much faster than it already is.
Just the design of the engine with 1 cam will make cam kits cheaper than the already in production cam kits for new coyote engines. Not to mention the fact that the larger displacement and direct injection of the lt1 will make it more responsive to mods than a similarly modded coyote.
Base 5.0 VS SS = damn close race
BOSS 5.0 VS SS = BOSS dominates
GT500 VS ZL1 = GT500 edges out ZL1 in straight line, GT500 DESTROYS ZL1 when it heat soaks with stock cooler and tune.
07-25-2013, 06:00 PM
#39
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Just for fun, GM's highest power engine today is NOT the biggest at 6.2 and STILL MAKES LESS HP than the GT500 which of course is even smaller... We found a replacement for displacement a LONG time ago, it's called boost.
07-25-2013, 06:24 PM
#40
Yes.
That's a bunch of BS. First of all, the discussion is about the engine not the car. Second, saying that anything the LT1 makes it into would "wipe the floor with the BOSS" is just retarded. You could put the LT1 in a 5th gen Camaro right now and most likely get bitch slapped by the boss. So back to the engine itself, I'd say a factory ford 5.0 making within 20 hp of the brand new direct injection 6.2 LT1 is a big deal. And finally, the arguement that the 5.0 won't make much more power with 2-3k is yet again....BS. Throw a full exhaust and intake on one and see what happens.
Uuhhhhh... do what?
Base 5.0 VS SS = damn close race
BOSS 5.0 VS SS = BOSS dominates
GT500 VS ZL1 = GT500 edges out ZL1 in straight line, GT500 DESTROYS ZL1 when it heat soaks with stock cooler and tune.
That's a bunch of BS. First of all, the discussion is about the engine not the car. Second, saying that anything the LT1 makes it into would "wipe the floor with the BOSS" is just retarded. You could put the LT1 in a 5th gen Camaro right now and most likely get bitch slapped by the boss. So back to the engine itself, I'd say a factory ford 5.0 making within 20 hp of the brand new direct injection 6.2 LT1 is a big deal. And finally, the arguement that the 5.0 won't make much more power with 2-3k is yet again....BS. Throw a full exhaust and intake on one and see what happens.
Uuhhhhh... do what?
Base 5.0 VS SS = damn close race
BOSS 5.0 VS SS = BOSS dominates
GT500 VS ZL1 = GT500 edges out ZL1 in straight line, GT500 DESTROYS ZL1 when it heat soaks with stock cooler and tune.
So how in the same post can you say that the boss would "dominate" the stock ss, then turn around and say with an lt1, the boss would still take it? You don't think the extra 50 horses or so would tighten the gap and put it right on par? (Serious question)
Now, this is about the engines right? So why are you putting more about the cars in your argument?
Now, how much power would intake and exhaust do for the coyote compared to the same money spent in heads and cam for the ls3? Again, the hp:dollar ratio just doesn't work in Ford's favor unless your talking forced induction. In which it works the same for Gm.
Gm just has the habit of not building an engine to it's potential. You turn up the boost on a zl1 and it will spank a 500.
Too many variables to compare the cars, I agree and this isn't what this debate is about. I apologize for getting off track.
However, I still stick by saying displacement is where it's at.