Originally Posted by bww3588

A boss dominating a stock ss...good luck. You're talking half a second difference, maybe slightly more. I wouldn't call that domination.

So how in the same post can you say that the boss would "dominate" the stock ss, then turn around and say with an lt1, the boss would still take it? You don't think the extra 50 horses or so would tighten the gap and put it right on par? (Serious question)

Now, this is about the engines right? So why are you putting more about the cars in your argument?

Now, how much power would intake and exhaust do for the coyote compared to the same money spent in heads and cam for the ls3? Again, the hp:dollar ratio just doesn't work in Ford's favor unless your talking forced induction. In which it works the same for Gm.

Gm just has the habit of not building an engine to it's potential. You turn up the boost on a zl1 and it will spank a 500.

Too many variables to compare the cars, I agree and this isn't what this debate is about. I apologize for getting off track.

However, I still stick by saying displacement is where it's at.

Originally Posted by NSSANE02

.5 difference between two stock cars at this level is a considerable difference. LS3-LT1 is not an extra 50hp, closer to 20. And no, I don't think that would even it up.

Comparing bolt-ons on a 5.0 to H/C on an LS/LT is just silly, compare apples to apples. Besides, how many people change a cam or heads with stock exhaust or intake? A fair comparison would be full bolt-ons for each, in which the boss would hold its own.

While I agree the ZR1 is a phenomenal car with an awesome engine, turn up the boost on both the ZR1 and the GT500 and you're back to the same predicament, apples to apples...

Originally Posted by bww3588

My point was not, bolt on's vs heads cam, it was the money that you will spend on each. 2500 will not get you heads and cam on a coyote, but it will get you heads and cam on an ls3 and probably pretty close to heads and cam on an lt1 given the design.

And yes, it is an apples to apples comparison with the gt500. Simply because it's already running more psi than the zl1. Turn the boost us to comparative levels and see how it turns out. That takes me to my basis of displacement being king.

At any rate, I agree both Ford and GM have great platforms, but gm still has the upper hand with simplicity and displacement

Originally Posted by GMRL

I think an LT1 in a boss would be a fun car.
20 more hp, 85 lb ft more, and a more useable curve.

Originally Posted by NSSANE02

I agree with most of that. I got off track with my argument, my original point was that the GM engines are always de-tuned/under boosted for what the platform is safely capable of. This new DI 6.2 is a perfect example of that, being only 20hp more than its predecessor. I sure hope it's cabable of MUCH more with a good tune and some simple bolt-ons.

Originally Posted by disc0monkey

Boost wouldn't be as efficient under long periods of high load as NA. So the trucks and cars that are being raced benefit from the greater displacement then a smaller boosted variant.

Originally Posted by NSSANE02

I agree with most of that. I got off track with my argument, my original point was that the GM engines are always de-tuned/under boosted for what the platform is safely capable of. This new DI 6.2 is a perfect example of that, being only 20hp more than its predecessor. I sure hope it's cabable of MUCH more with a good tune and some simple bolt-ons.

Originally Posted by NSSANE02

I think an LT1 in a Vette would be a fun car

Originally Posted by NSSANE02

That's not always the case. If you have an adequate cooling system and you're not trying to overspeed the turbo/sc, it can be just as efficient. Hell, I ran a bone stock (other than bigger intercooler) turbo diesel wot for close to 10 minutes non stop and never lost any boost or overheated.

What does this have to do with the post you quoted? And what "trucks and cars" are you speaking of?

Originally Posted by GMRL

Thats a given. But you see where im going. All this arguing about which engine is better.
Put a 5.0 in a Camaro, it would slow it down.
LS3 or LT1 in a Mustang would be faster.

Originally Posted by disc0monkey

It has to do with the point there's no replacement for displacement. I am talking about a gasoline engine.

I am talking about silverado, tahoe, suburban.

Originally Posted by NSSANE02

Ok, my point is still valid. If the boosted engine has an adequate air & engine cooling system it will be just as efficient and will get better fuel mileage when under light load. So the fact is, there is an efficient and proven replacement for displacement, even for trucks.

Originally Posted by NSSANE02

Ok, my point is still valid. If the boosted engine has an adequate air & engine cooling system it will be just as efficient and will get better fuel mileage when under light load. So the fact is, there is an efficient and proven replacement for displacement, even for trucks.

Originally Posted by Midnight02

At first I was a bit disappointed in the direction GM seems to be going with this, however upon closer inspection I think it's actually something to be excited about. The torque curve on the LT1 looks like something we all should be excited about.....appears to produce gobs of useable power on the street.

While 460/465 certainly falls short of the gaudy numbers we get from the ZR1 and the GT500, it does raise the bar substantially for the base model Corvette. Just imagine where the Z06 (or comparable equivalent) needs to go from here or there to be a clear difference in performance capabilities (from the base C7). Wouldn't break my heart to see a similar motor with forced induction in the Z cars.

Not to mention, it does get 26 mpg on the highway. Pretty remarkable.

Originally Posted by bww3588

Exactly...

There is much more than a brute power game being played here. These aren't the 60's and 70's land yachts being pushed around. It doesn't take an absurd amount of power to make a fast car.

Big deal the 5.0 boss makes 20 less horsepower than the new lt1. The corvette and any subsequent vehicle the lt variants make it into (Camaro etc...) Will wipe the floor with the boss 302 or anything else simply because of the design of the vehicles and the room to grow. The 302 is maxing out stock components at stock power levels. You won't see people dumping 2 grand into a new mustang and making it much faster than it already is.

Just the design of the engine with 1 cam will make cam kits cheaper than the already in production cam kits for new coyote engines. Not to mention the fact that the larger displacement and direct injection of the lt1 will make it more responsive to mods than a similarly modded coyote.

Ford has been playing the displacement game with gm since the 80's, and has yet to build a vehicle that can totally spank a comparative gm vehicle without a decent mod list or forced induction.

Even today, there is still no replacement for displacement.