HotRodLS1

Hello all,

Having had the first part of this thread it's time to tell something about myself. With my personal data already registred I'll tell something about why I signed up.

It's been three years ago when I "decided" to build myself a hotrod. The engine of my oldtimer, a Opel Kadett C1, broke down and I wanted a bigger engine in it. The idea started out with a traditional small block, but it being very heavy made me choose a LS engine later on.

A friend of mine warned me that these engines are known for having trouble and told me I should learn more about them before using an LS engine in my car. So I did and now it's two years later in which i've learned about LS engines every week.

Being on another hunt for some answers which I couldn't find I decided to become a member of ls1tech. This way I hope I can help other people out with the research I've done and to find an answer to my question and questions to come.

Kind regards from the Netherlands!
Rutger

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Welcome to the site.

Sounds like your friend needs to learn more about these engines, they aren't known for "trouble" at all. Every engine platform has certain strengths, weaknesses and traits, but the LS stuff is right near the top in terms of power potential (especially for its external size) and reliability when stock or properly built for a given application.

HotRodLS1

Thank you very much!



Me calling myself an LS1 fan gives an idea of my attitude against the LS engines. The LS engines are near the top in terms of power potential indeed.

You are also right about every engine platform having its weaknesses however, LS engines are no exeption. Excessive oil consumption for instance, expecially on the LS1 and gen IV engines with active fuel management. Not everyone has experienced excessive oil consumption, but John Juriga of GM even stated the percentage of complaints about the LS1 was higher than they liked. In my opinion this is trouble and my friend is right.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I've had four of these engines and never had issues with excessive oil consumption until doing a cam swap on one of them; I suspect changes in cylinder pressure brought on this issue, it was fine prior to the cam swap. It's not ideal, but it was far from "trouble" IMO. To me, trouble means failure prone and/or unreliable, and the LS1s are certainly not those things - though they can be noisy (cold piston slap, noisy valve train.)

HotRodLS1

If you are talking about the LS1 and/or LS6 engines, cylinder pressure could be a problem indeed. Having problems with these engines is a personal matter, depending on the rev range you drive it.

The first statement about this issue GM made was ring flutter, occuring at certain rpm's. When they launched the LS2 they forgot about the ring flutter and told bore distortion was the reason. They told this was why they improved the structure of the LS2 and removed the cooling channels between the cilinders in the top of the block. This bore distortion caused blow-by and occured at driving at certain rpm's.

I think you should be glad if you drove 4 of these engines and had no trouble. There are also people who drove two of these engines and had nothing but trouble. Cams with a higher lift can also increase oil consumption, expecially with the engines with the pcv system connected to the valve cover it seems.

If engine faillure is the only thing you call trouble, then LS engines will not mean trouble to you. Unless you are one of the few people who had the LS2 #7 rod bearing spun.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

It's clear to me that we have very different definitions of "trouble" then. I don't expect any engine to be 100% perfect in every production example, nor do I expect every engine to maintain total stock-level reliability when operated outside its original design range (such as significantly higher rpms limits) and/or with several aftermarket internal components (items which are only as good as the overall combo, and/or the installer/quality of parts.)

I think you will have trouble finding any production engine without some sort of user complaints, especially ones that are pushed hard in competition/racing and/or are frequently modified by their users - such modifications tend to expose weaknesses that may seldom be an issue in stock/near stock applications.

Good luck with your project though.

madmike9396

iTrader: (29)

LSX RULES ALL ! Welcome

HotRodLS1

Yes we have, but we also look at it from anther perspective. I think there's no need to discuss this any further.


Ofcourse. I wasn't talking about operating an angine outside its original designed rpm range by the way.


I agree, you won´t hear/see me stating otherwise. I'm just trying to save myself user complaints.


Thank you..

HotRodLS1

Thank you Madmike

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

My thought there was mostly referencing this statement:

In fact, just to clarify, *I* was operating the engine outside it's original designed rpm range, and with a camshaft profile more aggressive than stock (such an item, in almost every case, will require revving beyond the stock limits to experience maximum benefit.) That's the only time I encountered excessive oil consumption issues with an LS1. When the engine was stock, it had no such issues, nor did my other three across the last 17 years.

I think you will find most stock LS1 engines to be trouble-free (I cannot speak of the AFM/DOD engines, I have no experience with those variants), assuming they were well maintained. The internet tends to paint a more negative picture than what actually exists; nobody posts to state that they've gone another 1k/10k/100k miles without problems....more often than not, they come to a site for help with a problem. However, for every one problem that is posted there are many who do not have the same issue.

HotRodLS1

Thank you for the clarification.


I hear you. As said before, I'm calling myself an LS fan for a reason. I know there are millions of this engines sold worldwide and am aware of the negative stories turning up on the internet. This is the reason I was basing my opinion on information from GM.

JD_AMG

I don't ever remember GM saying anything about oil consumption on the LS1 (in america at least), i do remember something about the truck variants though.
With that being said from what ive seen over the years it seems the LSxs sent overseas had more issues come up than in America. Im wondering if they used a different PCV setup, tune, or piston rings or something to meet the different emissions standards of other countries compared to the US.
The only oil consumption issues that Ive experienced/read/heard about in my 10+ years of being on here, being around them, and owning one myself is oil getting sucked through the PCV system when engine braking hard or running in the upper RPM for an extended period of time. BUT this is no different than what Ive seen from most other performance engines on the market today as well.
This is easily countered by installing a catch can though so its not a big deal at all.

Ive also never heard anything about ring flutter, most people say piston slap and while that may be the case for some noise its been proven that the valvetrain makes some noise on cold startup due to lifter bleed out.

Also never heard of a properly maintained stock LS2 spinning rod bearings...

If you do a search on here im sure you will see that vast majority of people had 0 trouble with stock LS1s. Modding is when it gets sketchy only because most people cut corners and/or mismatch parts, use wrong parts etc, but even at that most are still totally reliable.

HotRodLS1

If I do a search? I've done my research. You're the one trying to put thing in another perspective because you "don't remember" and/or "haven't heard of it". Here's some of the information I was basing myself on:

http://www.c5registry.com/2k2z06/page5.htm

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...5/sequel6.html

Now you've heard about the ring flutter, that's also being discussed on this forum. I've been investigating these engines for a while now. I've done this for myself and I haven't written down my sources. If you doubt other facts I'm telling about, please ask or do a search yourself.


p.s. a catch can is a (good) bandage, just like the higher tension piston rings of the LS6. I'd rather start out with a gen IV engine and have less bore distortion however, if I have the choice.

JD_AMG

The ring flutter is news to me, and the PCV issue is mentioned as well, but again you'll be hard pressed to find a modern day performance engine with a PCV system that doesn't ingest some oil.
Regardless the "issue" seems to be blown out of proportion here. Like i said if you do a search on here (i.e. LS1tech) you'll see its rare to have a stock well maintained LS1 have any real troubles.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Absolutely correct, and I couldn't agree more.

HotRodLS1

Ofcourse. The LS2 has very few/way less complaints however.

Well, narrowing the search area to this forum, well maintained LS1 engines, only the ones that are original and, within that criteria, the ones that had "real" trouble, does make trouble with the LS1 seem very rare. I don't think this will create a representative image however.

This doesn't mean your input isn't appriciated and I'm convinced my opinion is not biased. I will keep your opinions in mind while exploring this world further, thank you.