Never heard it put that way before

 

On a more serious note,

George, what oil will your new motor be running?

 

First of all, nobody goes by STD #s. Only those trying to inflate the final #s for the HYPE factor. I went back and checked the dyno graphs and now theirs a link to an SAE graph, but when you select it, it still shows an STD graph..... Im sure the car is still in the mid 440s, but 440 and 457 are two different worlds.

 

Well, I am going to defend my work, even if the car was not on the dyno. You are not going to melt down a car on a 13 to 1 air fuel ratio. Even if it leans up .5 on the street it won't melt it down. I will talk with Joe and Joe to get all the details, but there is no way the tune melted that car, especially since this is the first I have been hearing of it, if it had been because of the tune I would have been asked about this.
What did the other 6 cylinders look like? There is always the possibility of 2 bad injectors, the issues mentioned in the other posts, possible fuel pump failure, really bad tank of gas, and modifications made to the car after it was last checked on the dyno, etc... There are lots of things that could have caused this. Bottom line is that 13.0 will not melt the motor and if it was pinging on 28 degrees of timing you guys should quit putting water in the gas tank 28 degrees is very conservative and would be fine anywhere but California and their gasoline. I would do more testing before I am so quick to point blame right away. Maybe you didn't get your 4 meals yet today and it's slowing you down
Another thing to consider is that you added 200HP to a bottom end built end build for 350HP in a vette, these things do happen to stock bottom ends. My 94 Imapla's stock bottom emd spun a bearing years ago with 50K on the odometer when I did a heads and cam setup and was hot lapping it at the track.
I'm sure you will post more as you seem to like to get the last word, but feel free to email me anytime as well, but that dyno graph shows me no problem with the tune.

 

Cammin, if you want I will get the SAE graph for you. STD normally will read higher and many newer shops do correct to SAE, but Old school engine builders believe in the STD correction. But for apples to apples comparisons I guess I should get the SAE numbers for all the internet bench racers. Uncorrected is a whole different animal all together. STD and SAE are both corrections and will modify the uncorrected or actual HP numbers for atmospheric conditions.

 

I hope youre not referring your smart *** comment about "internet bench racers" to me. I was just stating my opinion on dyno #s. See sig for my thoughts on dyno #s, as well as my internet time slips.......

 

Actually no, I am referring to all those guys out there with dyno sheets, but no track times, or the band of excuses why their car won't run the number at the track, such as 3rd gear was slipping, no traction, weather was bad, etc... You car runs good numbers and I like you have seen bogus dyno numbers before from high dynos. Cars from our dyno have been run on other local dynos (SLP's in particular) and the numbers are dead on. But, traveling the country doing various group dyno days I have seen some very optimistic dynos.
I still don't like the way SAE corrects and hate the metric system

 

Thanks for the comments on my times. I enjoy running 9s in a stock cubes 6spd

I would have to agree. I have seen quite a few "optimistic dynos" myself. I have also seen the long list of reasons why the car didnt perform at the track like it did on the dyno.

Back to the internet bench racers(Cammin BeaSSt not included )

 

That was not a 1 time detonation from 1 bad run or 1 tank of gas, that was long term detonation. It is more likely that the tune is the cause of my problems and less likely that it is my fuel system. Right up until the point of having the head/cam package installed my fuel pump was running fine and I know it is still pumping fuel because the car would still run even with all the blow by. Plus we are forgetting the fact that I have 3 bad cylinders. My # 3 cylinder had 80% leakdown which means my rings/ringlands are shot to hell and back although there is no visible damage to the top of the piston, I did not even know about the #5 and #7 pistons until I pulled the head because I stopped after the leakdown failed on # 3 as the passenger side of the engine passed on every cylinder. If it means that I can get my money back I will have my injectors tested but honestly it is probably not them. I am actually glad that you are posting on here because it will give me an opportunity to deal directly with you.

If nothing else the fact still remains that I paid for a dyno tune and did not receive one. Another fact is that my motor lasted 2k miles after the install. 2 miles of the 2k miles were racing miles. JPR told me on the phone that he did not believe that my problem was at WOT but rather at cruising speeds which would make some sense because 1600 of the 2k miles were highway miles in 6th and 5th gear. I honestly hardly ever race and I just like having a fast car. Also I just checked my dyno sheet and before the maft tune my a/f was around 13.5, after the maft it was 13.1.

I never use bad gas only amoco premium and chevron premium both of which are excellent. If I had a leak at the manifold or after the maft would this not be an install problem?

If we really want to be completely fair about this I believe the following should happen.

1. Refund my money for the tune because I PAID for a dyno tune and did not
receive one.

2. I will go have my fuel system tested. If it comes back ok then it would
be PCM's for LESS and JPR's fault that my motor is toast without doubt
and you guys should pay me the cost of an entire stock shortblock and
pistons plus the labor to put it all together. On top of that if my fuel
system is ok you should pay me for the cost of performing the tests to
get it checked as well.

All I was asking Joe for is basically the cost of my trip up there which was the install and the tune as it is very likely the tune is at fault here which would total around 1500 dollars. The cost to be fair after I test my fuel system will be much higher than what I am asking. I know you think I am asking to much here but think about this honestly for a second.

I had to help Joe work on my car ?? I paid him alot of money to do the install on my car and yet he asked that I help him? Instead of the Mobil 1 synthetic oil that he drained out of my car he put in something called grey wolf oil ? WTF is that,,, I have never heard about it and it is a running joke to this day here in FL, people mess with me all the time about it. Joe also put in dirty coolant back into my car. He drained it but drained it into a filthy bucket. You could see all the **** floating around in it and I have even flushed it once to get all of it out and there is still alot of it in there? Instead of a rental car that I was promised and never recieved I sat in his garage. Do you still think that I should not be refunded the money for the install? Remember I helped Joe work on my car that I PAID him to work on professionally.

The install was a grand does this sound like it was worth even 100 bucks?


Then I got a flash tune instead of an LS1 edit dyno tune because I was told at the last second after I am up in New Jersey that the tuner who to my suprise is not JPR cannot make my dyno session and that I did not even have a dyno session scheduled because it was Columbus Day even though I had called and sent numerous emails to Joe regarding my trip months in advance. This flash tune I received was lean even at 13.1 according to many others on this board , including sponsors. I therefore conclude I have a faulty tune and at the very least did not get an LS1 edit dyno tune which is what I PAID for.

Do you still not think that even if all 8 of my injectors are bad that I should not be refunded for the tune that I did not recieve and the shotty install in which I helped work on a car that I was paying somebody to work on??

 

Now a short bit about JD.

We all know that you have to go through JD to get to JPR 1st of all and here is the events that led up to this post.

I call JPR at both business and cell. Left vm's
To cover all my bases and because I know where JPR is I call JD's

5 minutes after I call JD's JPR calls me back. I explain very calmly to JPR my situation and JPR agreed with me. I thought everything was cool at that point. I told JPR that I felt it would be more than fair if he refunded my install/tune money and he never said that he would agree to a price but did say that we would work something out and that he would make payments to me with whatever value we determined fair. He also stated that he felt that he was going to have to stop driving the car if he did not get a retune and that he may have ended up with a car like mine had he kept driving it before getting a retune. 30 mins after that JD calls me and is by far one of the most rude people I have ever talked to at least at that time. He told me that I was wrong , and used ridiculous scenarios like

"Do you mean that if PCM FOR LESS was on his deathbed that he should come up there to tune your car."

"If your install was shot did you heads fall off?"

"You just don't like me because I tell you how it is"

I actually laughed on the phone because his scenarios were so ridiculous. He could only say that I was supposed to send my PCM back to get it tuned and that I did not do it so this is my fault,, he did not even know that I was told to wait on sending my PCM anywhere until I got my TB that I ordered from Joe. That TB got to me after my car was already on Jack stands with the heads pulled due to detonation. Also if they wanted me to send the PCM back to you for safety reasons why in the hell would it have been flashed to my pcm in the first place knowing that I had to drive 1200 miles back to Florida? Now here is another funny part I asked JD to let me talk to JPR because he was standing there ( I could hear him ) and because JPR had already agreed with me. JD said that I could not speak with him and that I was dealing with JD now.

What happened where is JD now? Oh thats right he has nothing to do with this lol which is true but then why not let me talk to JPR?

Now all that happened before I said anything negative in this post and JD came on here probably because he was pissed asking if I sent my pcm back to PCM for LESS.

Here is his post

"mike-your car was never dyno tuned as i remember.bryan from pcm,s for less could not make it up for joe p.to custom tune it so he put a tune in it from another car and tuned it with an maf translator because you couldn't stay--you had to get home.so you were suppost to send your computer back up to bryan.did you do that???you were suppost to send in the translator numbers and bryan was going to modify the program."

I had only warned George before this point to have his tune double checked because my engine detonated because of what was/is likely the same tune? Whats wrong with that and why did JD say something negative about me not sending my pcm up to PCM for LESS?

Now JD promised me that he would have JPR call me back. Well this is day #3 now and I am still waiting.

Now JD did call me since the orginal post and apologized for his attitude and again promised me that JPR would call me but still I wait and receive no call.


All I am asking is my money back for the install which was shotty and the tune which was shotty even at 13.1

Is this unreasonable?

 

Good god Mike...thats a nightmare

Sorry anyone has to go through all that.

 

PCMFORLESS I cant believe you even mentioned anything about MEALS. Obesity cost tax payers billions in health care cost and dont tell me you have a thyroid problem, because I would still tell you the same thing. "Lose the weight!" If not for the tax payers or your own health problems do it just to live long enough to see this post closed. You mentioned you are good with computers? What does that have to do with knowing the complete inner workings of engines. I am talking about the entire dynamics, fuel, timing events, etc. I am sure over half of the people on this board know computers pretty well and cant do a cam swap and would probably have a question about using Hypertech. Mike K. and I both work with computers, but do not pretend to know all the inner workings of the automobile.

You know what? It just dawned on me. JPR must have asked you if you could give him some of the money back you got from him on Mike K.'s simulated dyno tune, but you have already spent the money already on Mars Bars. I can smell the caramel from here. Anyway, it all makes sense. You post right after Mike K. and JPR agree on a resolution and you obviously disagree because you might have to come off some Mars Bars, I mean money. PCMFORLESS just do the right thing. Go on a diet and clear your name by helping JPR pay Mike K. what is owed. One more thing, "CARDIO!"

 

I think this is a very funny statement. There are alot of guys here with excuses or why there car wont run the # . The fact there are bolt on cars with 320-330 hp running low 11`s could make anyone with a head and cam that doesnt go 10s look bad. But should they ? Speaking of excuses I can think of A shop with 450+ hp A4`s that are never close to backing up there #`s at the track and had more excuses than anyone ive ever seen before why they dont do the #`s. I just call them like i see them . <--- not gonna mention any names here but some may know

This thread is going in bad direction.

 

Mike,

<---Renaming this Dexcool colored smilie from Joe Cool to Joe Coolant.

JPR put dirty coolant back in the car with trash in it?

Sounds like that set of heads that was missing the spring seat on #6 that Jeff Creach discovered when working with another guys JPR set up.

Could some of that trash have blocked a coolant passage(s) in the heads? This could really help set the stage for denotation if the tune was too lean to start with.

Dexcool is cheap,

I can't image pulling old coolant back in the car much less out of a dirty bucket. That shows a serious lack of attention to detail in my book. Hell when I did a 160 stat and lost some coolant into a clean pan, I put fresh Dexcool back in not the old stuff.

SRP/Wegner would NEVER do a hacked up install like that or ask you to do some of the work. They did the install for the T/A and it was perfect. Which is why they are doing the engine for the RS. I'm aways up for talking carstuff etc while the install is being done.Heck we'll even feed you some grits, country ham & red eye gravy - you won't go hungry. I'm sure MORE would do a good job too.

Besides North Carolina is a lot closer than Jersey.

I've heard of Grey Wolf oil before, I have a friend that ran it in his pick up truck & SUV. Most of the folks that use it tend to regard it as the best oil. I use Mobile 1

 

Hey VINCE,
I have not been asked for one cent from JPR and my tune was fine. You and your dumb friend can go **** yourselves. You want to make comments about my weight here's the story. I had surgery in April and have lost 135 LBS since. I get it through hereditary and my mother has had the surgery as well. My younger brother weighs 175 and eats more than I ever did. As far as taxes, my taxes go to pay welfare for your lazy black *** so you can sit on the keyboard and bitch like a little girl. If you want to bring your *** *** up here with your gun and threaten people go ahead, I will be ready to meet you. I will not sit here and be insulted personally you ******. I have the best reputation on most internet boards, but this LS1 Tech is full of whiners and losers and internet bench racers. This most likely is my last post on this board and I have also contacted JD and he will be pulling his advertising. I also advised him and JPR to tell you and you friend to shove it. Something else other than the tune went wrong with your car, and you probably fucked around with it when you got home. Now, was it worth personally attacking me? I will make sure you get what you deserve, NOTHING!
**** YOU,
Bryan
PS- this is the first negative post I think I have ever made on an internet board, and I hope the last. I apologize to any others who may read this and be offended, but I willl not sit here and be attaced personally by some WINDOW LICKING RETARDED ******* behind a keyboard. All my customers and friends know me as a nice, helping, friendly person who goes out of my way to make sure I can help.

 

99
The reason he probably had to use old coolant is that so many of these guys are so fricking cheap for the Job to be done right, who can afford any extras. Some guys expect work for nothing and then bitch if there are problems because they were too cheap to do it with the right parts, etc... I'm sure that's why they drove to NJ in the first place, to save $$$$.

 

Defintly not a great post for promoting business. All of us whiners , loosers and inernet bench racers WERE potential customers.

Btw what is a WINDOW LICKING RETARDED ******* behind a keyboard

I might want to use that insult in the future and I just want to use it in the correct context

Thanks

 

YOU GUYS ARE WAY OUT OF HAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FIRST OF ALL THE COMMENTS ABOUT BRYAN FROM PCMS FOR LESS IS WAY OFF BASE---OVERWEIGHT PEOPLE ARE NOT COSTING TAX PAYERS AS MUCH AS PEOPLE ON WELFARE AND UNEMPLOYMENT WHICH COULD BE WORKING---
SO STOP THOSE COMMENTS IMMEDIATLEY!!!

THIS WAS THE LAST STRAW FOR ME AND I WILL REMOVE MYSELF FROM THE SPONSOR BOARD TODAY!!!!

SORRY ABOUT TRYING TO HELP PEOPLE OUT---BUT THE COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE NOW ARE IRREVERSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THANKS
JOE D.

 

I hardly do any business off this board. This board seems to have a lot of guys on it that want something for nothing. I'm not worried. My great reputation on the other quality boards and word of mouth from my thousands of very pleased customers is what I need. I don't need business from guys that bitch and complain constantly and attack me personally. This is a first for me and has really left a bad taste for me for this board.

 

STOP THREATENING PEOPLE WITH YOUR POTENTIAL CUSTOMER BULLSHIT!!!

ALL OF MY CUSTOMER'S FOR 8 YEARS ARE BY WORD OF MOUTH--NOT THE INTERNET--WHERE PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR CHEAP AND FREE--YOU ONLY GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I HAVE NEVER SEEN A PROBLEM LIKE THIS INTERNET **** IN YEARS--I GUESS I DON'T GET BEHIND THE KEYBOARD ENOUGH---THANK GOD!!!!!!!

SEE YA
JOE D.