Beware: Katech LS9R clutch failed 700 miles Katech wont stand behind their products
07-29-2012, 03:31 PM
#41
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Ive heard nothing but bad about katech on here thats why id never give them a chance to screw me. Seems like about a year ago there was a thread about a guy contracting them to build a motor and when he took the engine apart lator there was lesser quality parts in it.
08-15-2012, 01:35 PM
#43
6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
Ok, this needs to be moved to vendor feedback section, not this section.
Secondly I'm going to give my $.02 on this topic. Pretty much everything that has been posted about slaves, adjustment, wear, etc.. is all just plain wrong. I don't mean to step on anyone's toes with that. But it is what it is. People just grasp at straws and you get the sort of input you have in this thread.
Now, up to actual failure pic.
So, if you look at the failure what appears pretty obvious is the friction material came loose from the disc for some reason. Why that happend is is the key question. I believe those are OEM GM discs from the LS9. What I am suprised about is that they do not have a bonded steel backing attached to the friction material. Normally, an unbonded disc has a limit of about 6000 rpm, after that the organic disc comes apart. But if its a GM part, I am sure it tested to well in excess of the normal limits. So to be clear, that is not a knock against Katech, just a suprise on my part the GM engineered it that way.
Now, you can see that after the disc failed, the rivets were still there. You can see the heads facing one way, and the backs facing the other were ground off on the pressure plate fire ring and created the groove in the pressure plate.
So the real question is, why did the disc shed it lining? I can't say definitively, but I would look at two options. One is being rev'd past the mechanical limit of the disc, and the lining coming apart. But since it is an OEM part that can go to 7000 RPM for over 100K miles, my guess is GM has a considerable safety margin in the part and its probably safe to at least 8000-8500. Steel bonded discs are safe to about +11K normally. So, I'm guessing its probably not a design flaw.
The next item I would look at would be damage to the disc. If the disc was cracked or damaged during shipping or install a damaged area of the disc could become a stress point. Lets say someone dropped the disc on the ground during install and it hit on the side of the disc and cracked the friction material. The material then easily fails shortly thereafter. Again, its a rather soft organic disc. Another possibility I've seen on cluch installs is that weight is left hanging on the clutch while stabbing trannys and torque tubes into the car. This can lead to bent and broken discs, and other clutch damage.
The last item I can think of woud be if the pressure placed on the rivets themsleves was either too little, or too much. If they were under rivieted, the disc could become loose and tear out. If they were over riveted, the rivet could pull through the material. Again, in large OEM batches I would consider that rare.
My gut feel is that the disc was damaged in shipping or install. I also don't think it is soley a Katech issue, but I would leave it to Katech to decide how they wish to handle it as a cusotmer service issue. I don't see anything that owuld lead me to believe it is a Katech design issue.
Disclaimer: The opinion expressed above is strictly my own, and is not representative of any manufacturer, company, service provider, or that of LS1tech.
Secondly I'm going to give my $.02 on this topic. Pretty much everything that has been posted about slaves, adjustment, wear, etc.. is all just plain wrong. I don't mean to step on anyone's toes with that. But it is what it is. People just grasp at straws and you get the sort of input you have in this thread.
Now, up to actual failure pic.
So, if you look at the failure what appears pretty obvious is the friction material came loose from the disc for some reason. Why that happend is is the key question. I believe those are OEM GM discs from the LS9. What I am suprised about is that they do not have a bonded steel backing attached to the friction material. Normally, an unbonded disc has a limit of about 6000 rpm, after that the organic disc comes apart. But if its a GM part, I am sure it tested to well in excess of the normal limits. So to be clear, that is not a knock against Katech, just a suprise on my part the GM engineered it that way.
Now, you can see that after the disc failed, the rivets were still there. You can see the heads facing one way, and the backs facing the other were ground off on the pressure plate fire ring and created the groove in the pressure plate.
So the real question is, why did the disc shed it lining? I can't say definitively, but I would look at two options. One is being rev'd past the mechanical limit of the disc, and the lining coming apart. But since it is an OEM part that can go to 7000 RPM for over 100K miles, my guess is GM has a considerable safety margin in the part and its probably safe to at least 8000-8500. Steel bonded discs are safe to about +11K normally. So, I'm guessing its probably not a design flaw.
The next item I would look at would be damage to the disc. If the disc was cracked or damaged during shipping or install a damaged area of the disc could become a stress point. Lets say someone dropped the disc on the ground during install and it hit on the side of the disc and cracked the friction material. The material then easily fails shortly thereafter. Again, its a rather soft organic disc. Another possibility I've seen on cluch installs is that weight is left hanging on the clutch while stabbing trannys and torque tubes into the car. This can lead to bent and broken discs, and other clutch damage.
The last item I can think of woud be if the pressure placed on the rivets themsleves was either too little, or too much. If they were under rivieted, the disc could become loose and tear out. If they were over riveted, the rivet could pull through the material. Again, in large OEM batches I would consider that rare.
My gut feel is that the disc was damaged in shipping or install. I also don't think it is soley a Katech issue, but I would leave it to Katech to decide how they wish to handle it as a cusotmer service issue. I don't see anything that owuld lead me to believe it is a Katech design issue.
Disclaimer: The opinion expressed above is strictly my own, and is not representative of any manufacturer, company, service provider, or that of LS1tech.
Last edited by J-Rod; 08-15-2012 at 02:27 PM.
09-01-2012, 01:23 PM
#44
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Im not a expert on anything related to this.
BUT the fact that OP says he couldnt shift outta gear and when pedal is depressed from a stop and he tried to start it the car moved forward, that tells me that some part of the clutch disengaging mechanism was failing. Whatever was failing clearly found a weak link in the material the clutch was made of on the one side.
So its tough to say if katech is responsible in my eyes. Would the disk have failed if the PP wasnt dragging it?
If the PP is made of a more abrasive material then the flywheel then it might have eaten through the disk faster since it was dragging. But it definitely was slipping ALOT to get to that point. And I dont see mention that the clutch wasnt holding the power. Just that all of a sudden it **** the bed.
I am in no way saying that the OP did anything wrong. But Its tough to say either side should eat the 1800$ clutch.
Good luck!
BUT the fact that OP says he couldnt shift outta gear and when pedal is depressed from a stop and he tried to start it the car moved forward, that tells me that some part of the clutch disengaging mechanism was failing. Whatever was failing clearly found a weak link in the material the clutch was made of on the one side.
So its tough to say if katech is responsible in my eyes. Would the disk have failed if the PP wasnt dragging it?
If the PP is made of a more abrasive material then the flywheel then it might have eaten through the disk faster since it was dragging. But it definitely was slipping ALOT to get to that point. And I dont see mention that the clutch wasnt holding the power. Just that all of a sudden it **** the bed.
I am in no way saying that the OP did anything wrong. But Its tough to say either side should eat the 1800$ clutch.
Good luck!
