My 2 cents, there should be some type of discount for being very late on delivering the motor as a form of goodwill, and if the intake has indeed been paid for ship it.

 

Agreed. I still can't believe vendors that come on and justify their actions, when the best course of action is to apologize, do what you can to make him/her happy and move on.
He says he paid for it, his bank said they paid for it. If his bank said it was paid for, then the problem is between you and your bank. He technically has a receipt. It is his property.

It was honorable for Chris to come here and apologize. But the difference between a good vendor that makes a quality product, and a GREAT vendor that is willing to make a customer happy speaks volumes.

Some of this was just simple mis-communications.
In the end, you have to ask yourself... How is any of this Jim's fault?

 

Wildman, I don't know you but I greatly appreciate everything you have said and I've been asking myself the same question for the past 3 days - how is any of this my fault? I didn't receive something and wasn't willing to pay for it before I received it. I should not have been charged until it shipped in the first place. Again, I was CHARGED on 5/17/2004 for an intake that Chris admits and John posts:
"The intake was shipped 6.22.04 and it was signed for on 6.24.04. It was sent UPS from Michigan"
So an item I was CHARGED FOR doesn't ship until MORE THAN A MONTH LATER!? And I'm expected to pay for it/believe it is going to ship soon? That is insane and I would be crazy to give APE another $1700 after giving them $10,400 and waiting so long.

I mailed my dispute form to the CC company and contacted APE on the same day. The CC company received and processed my dispute. I called the CC company the day CAM received my intake and they processed my cancelation.

I have done nothing to cause problems here - I have paid my bills on time - $10,400 worth of bills MONTHS before I received a product - and I don't think I was wrong to be in a panic state about paying another $1700 before my product was shipped/received.

And again Wildman - you are 100% correct - ALL of this is simple mis-communications. When Brian was fired from APE, Chris could have called all customers with open orders to explain the situation. Chris could have at any time credited my CC until he shipped the motor. Chris could have at any time called me to tell me the motor wouldn't ship was Brian told me it would ship because he was still waiting on parts. Chris could have told me BEFORE I shipped my intake back that he didn't receive a payment. Chris could have called me in the 2 days he promissed I would get the intake back to let me know he didn't get paid and didn't plan to send it back - and THAT was the final straw - I don't understand how anyone could say I'm wrong when I was promissed one thing (fixed and turned around in 2 days) and 8 days later, I have to call the shop to find out where my intake is, and am told its not been sent back, there is a payment problem?

Again, I can only Chris makes everything rgiht, send me an fixed intake that fits, is problem free, a check to cover the shipping charges and a check to cover the labor time CAM is going to charge me for trying to install an intake that didn't fit/removing the intake that didn't fit as well as removing and reinstalling a transmission to swap the correct flexplate in. I don't think I'm asking for too much - honestly, all I want is to have my car ready for this past June's event... or now to have it running so it can sit in a garage all winter....

--
Jim Hogan - http://www.TXStock.com
- 98 Navy Blue TA w/Moser 12 Bolt/TH400 & Gear Vendor OD
- 00 Navy Blue WS6 Convertible

 

We tried to make it up to Jim by covering his entire shipping bill plus the cost of the shipping crate. We do not just slap an engine on a pallette and call it good, we have custom crates made for each and every engine that leaves our shop.

Jim, you disputed the charge after the item was received. That was certinaly not our fault and was certianly not fair to us.

That's right, you didn't receive it. CAM did. And no business would send you something before it was paid for.

This was a custom fabricated item. It has to be paid for before work can begin on it. Otherwise, we run the risk of putting hours of work into something and have the buyer decide at the last minute that they no longer want it, leaving us stuck with it.

I personally have never lied to you (I would rather keep my job). The person that did lie to you was fired. I told you over the phone the day I shipped it. All you had to do was ask for a tracking number. I admit that I wish I had thought to just tell you the tracking number while I had you on the phone.

We never asked you to pay $1,700 more than once. You did indeed pay us $1,700 once, but you then later disputed it. This whole situation would have never happend if you had just called CAM or myself to get a tracking number.

We never hard from you. The only notification of the fispute that we received was from your credit card company. At that point, Chris sent you e-mails and tried to contact you by phone to ask why you disputed the charge after the intake was already sent out and received.

Again, our bank has never had contact from yours.

Actually, like mentioned before, if you had just called us and got proof that your intake was shipped or called CAM and discovered that your intake was sitting there waiting for you, this would have never been a problem.

Surely you don't expect us to send out a $1,700 item going by someone's word that it will get paid for. Heck, even getting paid in advance with a credit card is risky when people dispute the charges without good reason or looking into the status of the shipped item.

Chris DID do that. He spent a long time away from engine building to call people and let them know the TRUE status of their orders. I cannot see why your order would be excluded.

Again, this was a custom built motor (like every motor we build). We cannot build a motor without at least a deposit.

Our customers were not the only ones that Brian lied to. He mislead Chris as well. Chris was not aware that Brian was giving customers innaccurate information.

This was addressed earlier in this thread by Chris. When we received the intake, it reminded Chris to double check to see that your bank had resent the payment to us. When we discovered that they hadn't, we tried to find out why. We still are trying to find out why because your bank has not had any contact with ours.

Right now, we are trying to make it right, and you are trying to make it right. The problem now lies within communication issues between the banks. Since this bank issue is somewhat out of our hands and not making things any better, how about we take things into our hands and just get it worked out? I mean, all we ask for is payment for the intake, and you want the intake. Simple enough, right?

A simple, fair and honest solution!

Here's a solution that I think we can both live with...

Instead of waiting for the banks to get their act together (which I honestly do not expect them to soon), go ahead and call your bank and completely dispute (or whatever) the transaction for the $1,700. Have them credit your account that amount. This eliminates the banks holding us up.

Then, send us a cashier's check or a money order in the amount of $1,700 for the intake. If you want to overnight it to speed things up, we'll pay for it.

Once we receive the payment and deposit it, your intake will be fixed and I will personally overnight it to you via UPS (at our cost, of course) when it is fixed. When it is shipped, I will provide you with a tracking number via telephone, e-mail, PM, here in this thread...your choice or all of them. It will be no trouble for me at all.

This way, both of us don't have to wait for the banks to go back and forth, wasting more time and getting us nowhere. We won't have to worry about you disputing the charge again because it will be in the form of certified funds. In turn, you don't have to worry about us not sending the intake out because I am stating my intentions as my promise here for all to see. I have never lied to you and since I kinda like my job (most of the time), I won't lie to you or anyone else. That is just not how I do things, you can ask anyone who has dealt with me. If I were to not make good on this, I would be hanging myself and the rest of APE.

This way is the most fair and eliminates the huge "bank-to-bank" hassle that we all have been going through. This is an easy and honest way to put all of this behind us. So, let's get this fixed once and for all...give your bank a call at your earliest convenience, get your funds back on your credit card and fire out the certified funds to us and I'll take it from there. Problem solved.

Until then, have a nice weekend!

 

Why dont you just send the intake C.O.D and then both of your concerns are addressed

 

I have had the same problem with when Brian was there . He was telling me my rotating asambly was already there when it wasn't there and he told me it is almost finished with the machining of the block when they didn't even started with my block . When I called one day and i talked with Jason he told me the whole situation and he let me talk with Chris personaly to check my order again to see if they forgot anything or if Brian didn't put it on the list etc . From that time everytime I called , Jason double check with Chris before telling me anything about the status of my motor just to be sure . That is very good . I don't think it is fair to say "stay far awayfrom them " just because the motor took longer then expected .
Again this is just my opinion .
Sorry for my bad english
Geomar

 

Jason, at no time did anyone ever offer to cover my shipping costs, but if you would like to do that, please do.

And rather than argue, let me just ask a really simple question that my girlfriend asked...

Do you guys really honestly believe that I would have sent the intake back to you knowing that I hadn't paid for it? Does that make any sense at all? If I had not paid for the intake and was trying to rip you guys off, would I have called and said "theres a problem with my intake, I'm sending it back to get it fixed"?

It is rediculous that you are STILL blaming me for your own accounting problems and are STILL expecting me to do the leg work on this problem that YOU have with YOUR bank. I PAID for that intake, on 7/7/2004 as my CC company has informed you and your bank and to the best of my knowledge, when I sent it back, it was paid for in full and I was to get it back in 2 days at no additional cost with shipping covered and I absolutly refuse to write you a check - at least with my CC company I have some small form of protection for myself.

Again, please send me the intake I paid for almost 2 months again and settle your own problems with your bank, it is not my issue.

 

Geez, and while I'm at it, as for paying up front for something and leaving you "stuck" with it - I provided you a $850 90mm LSX intake, $175 fuel rails, a $50 install kit for those fuel lines (that is "missing"), and $580 50# injectors - I certainly don't think I was planning to "stick" you with anything being that I provided you $1600 worth of my own parts! Which by the way means that I think you really have $1700 of my money and $1600 of my parts, over $3300 total from me - I have nothing from you.

And again - claiming I was offered coverage for shipping on the motor is just crazy??? How or why would I not accept such a thing and to this day have no credits on my account/checks in my hands for the shipping costs?? This is crazy!

 

boy am i glad i read this thread. Thanks for posting this Jim, Most people dont post there problems out of fear of vendor vengence which you are clearly seeing

 

Guys...

This wont be the last time you will here stuff like this.
Bottom line is Jim was continually lied to. PERIOD..
Is this what a "Stand up shop does"? I dont think so.

As for ET perfomrance poking their heads in for support, well they are APE's new head porting company. Biased remarks? Probably.
Oh, on the lines of having a new head porter, last I heard is APE still owed a ton of money (well over 10k) to their old head porter for heads they sold on consignment and didnt pay.

Keeping things like this in mind when dealing with an out of state company are of the utmost importance, as you cant "drop in" and check on the REAL progress of your project.

Dave

 

Thread is done, offer made by Jason is fair. No reason to rehash old stuff the person who originally worked there is no longer there. Take it private now.