6speed 6T45 FWD Trans Conversion?
06-02-2010, 07:29 AM
#21
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But yes, if and that's a HUGE if this gets off the ground in a a fiscally feasible mostly bolt in setup and people enjoy it, see better times, and have better luck with the transmission holding the power, then YES- I would be very interested in it. I offer my opinion hoping that it's incorrect.
as long as it can handle power.... Obviously someone who would do this isn't the type of person to leave a motor stock!
06-02-2010, 11:21 AM
#22
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Actually, there really isn't anything that I would share in PM that I can't share here. We've 'theoretically' come up with an ECM manipulation/tuning and kit that would allow any LS engine (including Gen III) and technically ANY motor to run the latest line of GM 6 Speed transmissions.
The biggest issue that involves the LS4 W-Bodies is the fact that GM did a significant amount of ECM to BCM harness changes from '05/06 (E40 24x) to 07+ (E67 58X). Things were rewired in far more radical ways than the casual eye would notice. Needless to say what would have been a nice simple one size fits all kit would then turn into a double the expense kit. So obviously when that fork in the road approached the decision would have to be made as to which is the more popular set up.
That's good to know that the adapter is done already for the 4T70 as that saves a lot of time and money. Even though the T70 is only rated at 315hp/280tq I think it should have a decent life behind a lightly modded LS4 considering A) they are lighter than the SUV's they were designed for and B) acceleration unloads weight off of the tires, lowering traction/resistance. If the internal components are interchangeable there should be a significant increase in power handling capability right there without the need for the T75...for now
The biggest issue that involves the LS4 W-Bodies is the fact that GM did a significant amount of ECM to BCM harness changes from '05/06 (E40 24x) to 07+ (E67 58X). Things were rewired in far more radical ways than the casual eye would notice. Needless to say what would have been a nice simple one size fits all kit would then turn into a double the expense kit. So obviously when that fork in the road approached the decision would have to be made as to which is the more popular set up.
That's good to know that the adapter is done already for the 4T70 as that saves a lot of time and money. Even though the T70 is only rated at 315hp/280tq I think it should have a decent life behind a lightly modded LS4 considering A) they are lighter than the SUV's they were designed for and B) acceleration unloads weight off of the tires, lowering traction/resistance. If the internal components are interchangeable there should be a significant increase in power handling capability right there without the need for the T75...for now
Last edited by TrueBlueGTO; 06-02-2010 at 11:51 AM.
06-04-2010, 07:51 PM
#24
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The biggest issue that involves the LS4 W-Bodies is the fact that GM did a significant amount of ECM to BCM harness changes from '05/06 (E40 24x) to 07+ (E67 58X). Things were rewired in far more radical ways than the casual eye would notice. Needless to say what would have been a nice simple one size fits all kit would then turn into a double the expense kit. So obviously when that fork in the road approached the decision would have to be made as to which is the more popular set up.
.
I'd really like more information on this. Do you have a phone number?
Yes, the 6T75 should do just fine. GM never gives the real ratings of their transmissions. And just like you noticed, the 6T75 is a CUV/SUV transmission meant to handle vehicles that outweigh us quite a bit.
I honestly would not advise anyone to do a 6T70 swap. If anyone was going to do a swap, the 6T75 would be the right way to go.
But I think you are a little confused (or your fingers slipped): The 6T70 is found in the mid-sized FWD vehicles (G6, Aura, Malibu, etc.) and will mate up to the LS4 due to the engine's bellhousing being the metric pattern as well as the transmission's. This is the only LS engine having this bolt pattern. This same bolt pattern is shared with the 3800 series as well.
The 6T75 has a different bolt pattern and will not bolt up to the LS4 without an adapter plate. But as you understood from my previous post, the plate is done. The electronics is the main holdup and that is why I'd like to get in touch with you.
.
I'd really like more information on this. Do you have a phone number?
Yes, the 6T75 should do just fine. GM never gives the real ratings of their transmissions. And just like you noticed, the 6T75 is a CUV/SUV transmission meant to handle vehicles that outweigh us quite a bit.
I honestly would not advise anyone to do a 6T70 swap. If anyone was going to do a swap, the 6T75 would be the right way to go.
But I think you are a little confused (or your fingers slipped): The 6T70 is found in the mid-sized FWD vehicles (G6, Aura, Malibu, etc.) and will mate up to the LS4 due to the engine's bellhousing being the metric pattern as well as the transmission's. This is the only LS engine having this bolt pattern. This same bolt pattern is shared with the 3800 series as well.
The 6T75 has a different bolt pattern and will not bolt up to the LS4 without an adapter plate. But as you understood from my previous post, the plate is done. The electronics is the main holdup and that is why I'd like to get in touch with you.
Last edited by badjuju342; 06-07-2010 at 01:17 PM. Reason: Thread cleaning , admins can do that
06-05-2010, 08:25 PM
#25
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I would love to see a kit and I don't see anything wrong with brainstorming. No need to flame on Alabama guy. And my adapters would be posted in the F/S section. I don't wanna break any rules or send somebody home with hurt feelings. In order for us to get a product going we all need to chip in with ideas and such.
06-07-2010, 04:05 PM
#26
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Some good tech info here....
Lets get this one back on track and keep it focused from here on out.
Lets get this one back on track and keep it focused from here on out.
06-07-2010, 09:39 PM
#27
This is a good thread. Let's keep it alive.
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
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LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
06-08-2010, 07:23 AM
#31
06-08-2010, 09:51 AM
#32
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM-Ford...c_transmission
General Motors rates their 6T70 to 315 hp (235 kW) and 280 lb·ft (380 N·m) and the 6T75 to 315 hp (235 kW) and 300 lb·ft (407 N·m).
The first application of the technology is in the 2007 Ford Edge and Lincoln MKX crossover SUVs, as well as the Saturn Aura sedan and the Saturn Outlook crossover. It was also used for the Pontiac G6 GTP models and the GMC Acadia models for 2007. . Gear ratios:
1-4.484 2-2.872 3-1.842 4-1.414 5-1.000 6-0.742 R-2.88 F-2.77, 3.16, 3.39
And for reference I believe our Trans has:
1-2.92 2-1.56 3-1.00 4-0.70 R2.38 F-3.05(Super), 3.06(SS), 3.29(GXP)
So it looks like first gear would be good for tire smoke!
General Motors rates their 6T70 to 315 hp (235 kW) and 280 lb·ft (380 N·m) and the 6T75 to 315 hp (235 kW) and 300 lb·ft (407 N·m).
The first application of the technology is in the 2007 Ford Edge and Lincoln MKX crossover SUVs, as well as the Saturn Aura sedan and the Saturn Outlook crossover. It was also used for the Pontiac G6 GTP models and the GMC Acadia models for 2007. . Gear ratios:
1-4.484 2-2.872 3-1.842 4-1.414 5-1.000 6-0.742 R-2.88 F-2.77, 3.16, 3.39
And for reference I believe our Trans has:
1-2.92 2-1.56 3-1.00 4-0.70 R2.38 F-3.05(Super), 3.06(SS), 3.29(GXP)
So it looks like first gear would be good for tire smoke!
Last edited by EmersonHart13; 06-08-2010 at 09:59 AM.
06-08-2010, 10:07 AM
#33
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM-Ford...c_transmission
General Motors rates their 6T70 to 315 hp (235 kW) and 280 lb·ft (380 N·m) and the 6T75 to 315 hp (235 kW) and 300 lb·ft (407 N·m).
The first application of the technology is in the 2007 Ford Edge and Lincoln MKX crossover SUVs, as well as the Saturn Aura sedan and the Saturn Outlook crossover. It was also used for the Pontiac G6 GTP models and the GMC Acadia models for 2007. . Gear ratios:
1-4.484 2-2.872 3-1.842 4-1.414 5-1.000 6-0.742 R-2.88 F-2.77, 3.16, 3.39
And for reference I believe our Trans has:
1-2.92 2-1.56 3-1.00 4-0.70 R2.38 F-3.05(Super), 3.06(SS), 3.29(GXP)
So it looks like first gear would be good for tire smoke!
General Motors rates their 6T70 to 315 hp (235 kW) and 280 lb·ft (380 N·m) and the 6T75 to 315 hp (235 kW) and 300 lb·ft (407 N·m).
The first application of the technology is in the 2007 Ford Edge and Lincoln MKX crossover SUVs, as well as the Saturn Aura sedan and the Saturn Outlook crossover. It was also used for the Pontiac G6 GTP models and the GMC Acadia models for 2007. . Gear ratios:
1-4.484 2-2.872 3-1.842 4-1.414 5-1.000 6-0.742 R-2.88 F-2.77, 3.16, 3.39
And for reference I believe our Trans has:
1-2.92 2-1.56 3-1.00 4-0.70 R2.38 F-3.05(Super), 3.06(SS), 3.29(GXP)
So it looks like first gear would be good for tire smoke!
06-08-2010, 10:31 AM
#34
See attachment....
I don't see any reason why anyone would want anything other than 2.77, 3.16 maybe but 3.39 would be unusable?
I don't see any reason why anyone would want anything other than 2.77, 3.16 maybe but 3.39 would be unusable?
Last edited by EmersonHart13; 06-08-2010 at 10:37 AM.
06-08-2010, 11:44 AM
#35
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Glad to see it's open again. I went to make a post yesterday and now have since forgotten what I was going to say.
ANYHOW...I had a further delay putting the transfer case and adapter together, it's now all back together and just awaiting the mechanic to bolt the drivetrain back together....Hopefully this afternoon, otherwise...maybe tomorrow. I unfortunately lost the days he scheduled for me due to the transfer case.
Still I did some research and as I shared with GXP25 my those with the E40's are going to be of particular exception and may have to just drop the crank for a 58X. My proposed solution for RWD LSX motors won't work for the FWD LS4 due to that unique drive accessory system.
Secondly, as you guys have your TUTD controlled by the BCM and you have the DIC display, I'm not entirely sure the BCM will recognize that you have 2 extra gears.
These are the two primary sacrifices and/or obstacles that I see offhand.
ANYHOW...I had a further delay putting the transfer case and adapter together, it's now all back together and just awaiting the mechanic to bolt the drivetrain back together....Hopefully this afternoon, otherwise...maybe tomorrow. I unfortunately lost the days he scheduled for me due to the transfer case.
Still I did some research and as I shared with GXP25 my those with the E40's are going to be of particular exception and may have to just drop the crank for a 58X. My proposed solution for RWD LSX motors won't work for the FWD LS4 due to that unique drive accessory system.
Secondly, as you guys have your TUTD controlled by the BCM and you have the DIC display, I'm not entirely sure the BCM will recognize that you have 2 extra gears.
These are the two primary sacrifices and/or obstacles that I see offhand.
06-08-2010, 11:54 AM
#37
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Looking at those gear ratio's, we might have to start off in 2nd.
The gear between 2-3 works out pretty well with the 3.16 though.
06-08-2010, 11:55 AM
#38
TECH Enthusiast
So for the 07+ cars the trans will be a bolt on item, but what are the issues with the accessory drive??
How will the DIC be affected??
Would we lose the miles per gallon calculations etc?
How will the DIC be affected??
Would we lose the miles per gallon calculations etc?
06-08-2010, 12:01 PM
#39
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Thread Starter
HUD is an altogether different beast. The problem with this line of vehicles is that it's one of GM's most advanced BCM systems. Basically you guys have Vette and Caddy features.
The point I guess I'm trying to emphasize is that so long as this current project proves successful I'm confident a 6T will operate in your platforms. NOW how and to what extent your HUD/TATD/DIC play along will be purely speculative. Maybe it will work flawlessly. Maybe it can be addressed with a Tech tool. I dunno.
It is my personal mantra to do it right or don't do it at all, so I will have every intent to see that any project I undertake is done comprehensively.The W-Body's present multiple issues (various engines and wiring systems), but with knowledgeable and passionate enthusiasts like GXP and FastFiero (can I mention him??) I don't see this as an impossibility in a collaborative effort. With that said, the GTO side of the fence is more or less already figured out, but I like the challenge and potential reward that comes from this project. Additionally I wanted to entertain the 'next step' because I know once we prove our current project successful, I'm gonna get bombarded with questions by my Trailblazer guys and other things to gobble up my available time.
The point I guess I'm trying to emphasize is that so long as this current project proves successful I'm confident a 6T will operate in your platforms. NOW how and to what extent your HUD/TATD/DIC play along will be purely speculative. Maybe it will work flawlessly. Maybe it can be addressed with a Tech tool. I dunno.
It is my personal mantra to do it right or don't do it at all, so I will have every intent to see that any project I undertake is done comprehensively.The W-Body's present multiple issues (various engines and wiring systems), but with knowledgeable and passionate enthusiasts like GXP and FastFiero (can I mention him??) I don't see this as an impossibility in a collaborative effort. With that said, the GTO side of the fence is more or less already figured out, but I like the challenge and potential reward that comes from this project. Additionally I wanted to entertain the 'next step' because I know once we prove our current project successful, I'm gonna get bombarded with questions by my Trailblazer guys and other things to gobble up my available time.