July Hot Rod - Turbo 409 in 2007 Monte Carlo
09-17-2011, 07:32 PM
#82
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Got a chance to look at the pics again. It definitely will help those locations with the cooling. Are you going to run ducting from the fog light grilles to the coolers or move the coolers closer to the bumper openings? I think that either would to ensure a fresh supply of cool air. I like the electric fans that you have mounted to the auxiliary coolers. Do you have them set to turn on with the radiator fans?
09-18-2011, 04:17 PM
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I just spent 10 minutes answering all your questions and this forum kicked me off because I wrote too much. To quickly answer them in short. My auxillary fans run constantly. Except for the booster cooler for my radiator there is no picture for and it runs on its own thermostat. Wasn't going to move my coolers until I see what kind of improvement I get from the new grille. And the ducting, I did consider but for my brakes, haven't moved on that yet. Alternator is the next issue not enough amphere, popping fuses - addressing that issue now. More amps means more heat not sure - maybe we can split some of my circuits.
09-21-2011, 04:16 PM
#85
I had a few emails with West Shore last week. He said he came make them in around a week. Website says they are shut down moving to new location, but I was able to contact thorugh email. I'm looking at just the rear coil overs for now due to sagging on take off and don't trust the tie-down cable mod very much anymore. He recommended around 400 to 450# in the rear for drag racing. He mentioned that with monte carlos they have had a rubbing issue with the wheels and coil overs. He didn't say any specifics on which size wheels, but I'm guessing it's on V6 cars with 16" or 17" wheels maybe. Any issues with rubbing or clearance Bahdeets?
09-22-2011, 06:50 AM
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Struts Yes, I have an issue but with only 75 miles on the car not quiet sure what they are. The struts appear to be bottoming out, now that is either an overall travel issue or I have rubbing issues. I think it is more like travel/adjustment issues because they are really slamming hard when I hitting a bump or driving over rough roads. Under normal driving conditions they are fine but hit a bump and your teeth rattle. My tech said it would look at them before we drove the car again - I should have a better idea in the next couple weeks. Remember the car is in Utah and I am here in Michigan so when he gets to it I will let you know.
10-02-2011, 02:09 AM
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10-11-2011, 07:54 PM
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Not yet, got a couple more issues to overcome but more than likely in the spring when I get it back and right now I have taken MillerMonteSS's advise and I am currently putting an Impala front bumper on. It probably has at least 40 to 50% more open area in the grille area inaddition to open areas to the left and right near the fog lights, this will give me direct flow to the tranny coolers which I am in despart need of because currently it has almost none at that point and direct flow right into the air filter and of course more flow directly into the radiator too. The car has a slight heating problem at low speeds not enough air flow. With the open Impala bumper it should resolve that by giving me flow I never had before. The Monte bumper is just way too restrictive.
12-09-2011, 02:02 PM
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I'd like to see someone do a RWD conversion on the 06 07 Monte Carlos. having one of those would almost make me give up my dream of owning an 87 Monte Carlo SS.
06-05-2012, 10:59 AM
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I have been keeping in touch with Sam and I wanted to share this update:
Well the turbo works great now. As you know we went from a 78mm to an 88mm and it does not spool up as fast and operates within its RPM range that it should. We did not change the downpipe, I still am using a 3-1/2 instead of the recommended 4". Using a 4" would entail moving the master brake booster and resouvoir and maybe even moving the firewall inward a bit - just isn't worth it. In an ideal situtation downpipe back pressure should be 2-1/2 to 3#, mine was about 4-1/2 to 5# before with the 78 mm turbo but I was spinning that thing way passed the limit of safety (140,000 RPM's with a recommended max limit of 110,00 RPM - not good) range and now I am almost @ 8# of back pressure with a turbo in range (spinning now at 105,000 RPM). I can live with that. The horsepower gain with the correct pipe maybe 10/12. I could not justify the cost. So be it, I have 4" inlets and outlets on the turbo with very short reducers to 3-1/2" that is okay.
The alternator I guess works fine, I got a Mechman 150/170 but because of the location of our alternators it is running real hot about 300 deg. F. Way to hot, that's only at idle because the fan on the alternator just is not drawing in much cool air if any at all. We are putting a duct right there at the strut tower directing air from the outside fender well with a small fan that will run either all the time or just at idle (not sure what my tech decided to do) to keep it cool, from what I understand that is exactly what Mechman recommends. The heat issue is only at idle below 900 RPM's at higher RPM's it's fine because the fan draws enough air. Where that alternator is located is really problematic for cooling just can't draw cool air from no where - so in goes the cooling duct. We installed an airplane fuel pump from Waldon and it works fine but another issue arose - again too much heat being returned to the tank. We're taking the regulator and fuel filter out of the engine compartment and relocating them to the rear of the car. That will take just enough heat out of the fuel system to solve that problem. The return fuel from what I understand was running about 10 - 15 deg F over the operating temperature recommended by Waldon for the pump I have - so we knock out a few degrees and we will be all set there.
We had to take the firewall side header and reconfigure 2 of the tubes. I was melting two spark plug wires constantly and we just could not have that. That fabrication actually had a measurable amount of horsepower reduction of about 16 HP.
Have great news, we did our final dyno runs with the new turbo and re-routed header and 20 lbs of boost (24# is my max but my max HP was reached with 20# so no need to push it with 24# if there is no gain)and we came up with 814.8 HP on the ground. Still reached my goal of 800+ with the HP reductions.
My control arms have to be replaced, 800+ HP was too much for the stock units. The joints at the cradle were crushed. My tires actually moved foward over an inch at full throttle. My tech is making me new ones using Jony Joints at the cradle and 4340 tubing and gussets, Moog ball joints and Poly bushings. These will hold up real well under the power I am generating.
I contacted BHJ Products in California through a Mechanical Engineer I know and they agreed to make a new Damper for me that is tuned to my engine harmonics. I have some real life experience breaking the nose of a crank off using the wrong damper and there is no aftermarket performance dampers made for our cars so I decided to research it out and have it custom made. In fact I just paid for it on Friday and it should be on the way to Utah now as I write this. The only issue I had with BHJ is they would not make one, their minimum order was 2, so now I have an extra high priced door stop. Maybe I can sell it - it is the only high performance damper in existence for the external LS4 configuration.
Now here is some more good news - my car has now had about 18 pulls on the dyno so my tech decided to take my tranny apart and inspect it. Well it held up, no problems except one. All the discs were good. No nothing coming apart - all held together - great news. The only issue was the Sun gear thrust washers got deformed. That is an easy fix, I am having some 9310 aircraft quality steel used to make new thrust washers and unless Godzilla gets in that trans these new washers will not deform. There are two located on the Sun Gear - I will make 3 and machine out the Sun gear a few thousands and increase my spinning surface area as extra insurance against future wear or deformation.
How's that sound a 4T65E holding up to 800+ HP. That is terrific.
We sent the convertor out to add 3 more attachment points - had 3 which is good for about 1000 SAE HP and that is about where I am at, so now we will have 6 and now I won't have to worry about any stress between the billet flex plate and the convertor and it not being able to handle it. 6 and 8/9 points of attachments are used on 2000+ HP dragsters.
And while Hughes transmission is at it they are raising my stall about 300 RPM something my tech felt I should have been at to begin with but did not want to push it not knowing how the tranny would hold up, now with the results as positive as they are, up goes the stall. Hughes will also freshen up the internals on the converter and address any issues that may have cropped up due to the stress of 800 HP.
Greg, I still have a slight problem with engine compartment heat - I guess we are going to take out the weather strip on the hood at the back to let out more heat and I finally found some hood vents for the 96-98 w-body Grand Prix new in box that I bought should be here tomorrow. I am going to have them color matched to my car and just lie them on the hood to see if they look okay. Removing that last weather seal maybe be just enough to lower my engine compartment temperature where I won't need the vents but if I do and they look ok I will put them on. The only problem is that they will be functional and will let water in. Have to get some kind of magnetic cover to put underneath if I am caught in the rain, not likely 'cause this is only going to be a sunshine car. If you get a chance look up the Grand Prix on the internet and tell me what you think. They are not too big but their location on the hood in the center toward the side might not look too bad.
When I bought my block from Mike at Dart I promised him a ride when I get it back - I think he still wants that ride. It should be home soon. I got to meet the owners of Martin Motorsports here locally - big time into race car manufacturing. Harold Martin wants to unveil my car at the Woodward Dream cruise this August and introduce it to some of the industry media - I am hoping to make that, I think that would be a real feather in my cap and a great acknowledgement to those who really helped me make this project come to fruition. Something else for you to look up - Martin Motorsports.
Almost forgot - we moved my trailing arms in the back in a bit more, I widened another set of stock rims 1" and I can fit P275/45R x 18's in the wells using 3/4" fitted billet adaptors with ARP studs. I will put P255/45R x 18 on stock rims in the front and for those who aren't sure, my car may even look like it may be a rear wheel drive car with the larger rear tires, I thought a rear wheel stance would likely confuse some people and for people who don't know that our cars are FWD they won't know the difference.
I got Sam's permission before printing this...
Well the turbo works great now. As you know we went from a 78mm to an 88mm and it does not spool up as fast and operates within its RPM range that it should. We did not change the downpipe, I still am using a 3-1/2 instead of the recommended 4". Using a 4" would entail moving the master brake booster and resouvoir and maybe even moving the firewall inward a bit - just isn't worth it. In an ideal situtation downpipe back pressure should be 2-1/2 to 3#, mine was about 4-1/2 to 5# before with the 78 mm turbo but I was spinning that thing way passed the limit of safety (140,000 RPM's with a recommended max limit of 110,00 RPM - not good) range and now I am almost @ 8# of back pressure with a turbo in range (spinning now at 105,000 RPM). I can live with that. The horsepower gain with the correct pipe maybe 10/12. I could not justify the cost. So be it, I have 4" inlets and outlets on the turbo with very short reducers to 3-1/2" that is okay.
The alternator I guess works fine, I got a Mechman 150/170 but because of the location of our alternators it is running real hot about 300 deg. F. Way to hot, that's only at idle because the fan on the alternator just is not drawing in much cool air if any at all. We are putting a duct right there at the strut tower directing air from the outside fender well with a small fan that will run either all the time or just at idle (not sure what my tech decided to do) to keep it cool, from what I understand that is exactly what Mechman recommends. The heat issue is only at idle below 900 RPM's at higher RPM's it's fine because the fan draws enough air. Where that alternator is located is really problematic for cooling just can't draw cool air from no where - so in goes the cooling duct. We installed an airplane fuel pump from Waldon and it works fine but another issue arose - again too much heat being returned to the tank. We're taking the regulator and fuel filter out of the engine compartment and relocating them to the rear of the car. That will take just enough heat out of the fuel system to solve that problem. The return fuel from what I understand was running about 10 - 15 deg F over the operating temperature recommended by Waldon for the pump I have - so we knock out a few degrees and we will be all set there.
We had to take the firewall side header and reconfigure 2 of the tubes. I was melting two spark plug wires constantly and we just could not have that. That fabrication actually had a measurable amount of horsepower reduction of about 16 HP.
Have great news, we did our final dyno runs with the new turbo and re-routed header and 20 lbs of boost (24# is my max but my max HP was reached with 20# so no need to push it with 24# if there is no gain)and we came up with 814.8 HP on the ground. Still reached my goal of 800+ with the HP reductions.
My control arms have to be replaced, 800+ HP was too much for the stock units. The joints at the cradle were crushed. My tires actually moved foward over an inch at full throttle. My tech is making me new ones using Jony Joints at the cradle and 4340 tubing and gussets, Moog ball joints and Poly bushings. These will hold up real well under the power I am generating.
I contacted BHJ Products in California through a Mechanical Engineer I know and they agreed to make a new Damper for me that is tuned to my engine harmonics. I have some real life experience breaking the nose of a crank off using the wrong damper and there is no aftermarket performance dampers made for our cars so I decided to research it out and have it custom made. In fact I just paid for it on Friday and it should be on the way to Utah now as I write this. The only issue I had with BHJ is they would not make one, their minimum order was 2, so now I have an extra high priced door stop. Maybe I can sell it - it is the only high performance damper in existence for the external LS4 configuration.
Now here is some more good news - my car has now had about 18 pulls on the dyno so my tech decided to take my tranny apart and inspect it. Well it held up, no problems except one. All the discs were good. No nothing coming apart - all held together - great news. The only issue was the Sun gear thrust washers got deformed. That is an easy fix, I am having some 9310 aircraft quality steel used to make new thrust washers and unless Godzilla gets in that trans these new washers will not deform. There are two located on the Sun Gear - I will make 3 and machine out the Sun gear a few thousands and increase my spinning surface area as extra insurance against future wear or deformation.
How's that sound a 4T65E holding up to 800+ HP. That is terrific.
We sent the convertor out to add 3 more attachment points - had 3 which is good for about 1000 SAE HP and that is about where I am at, so now we will have 6 and now I won't have to worry about any stress between the billet flex plate and the convertor and it not being able to handle it. 6 and 8/9 points of attachments are used on 2000+ HP dragsters.
And while Hughes transmission is at it they are raising my stall about 300 RPM something my tech felt I should have been at to begin with but did not want to push it not knowing how the tranny would hold up, now with the results as positive as they are, up goes the stall. Hughes will also freshen up the internals on the converter and address any issues that may have cropped up due to the stress of 800 HP.
Greg, I still have a slight problem with engine compartment heat - I guess we are going to take out the weather strip on the hood at the back to let out more heat and I finally found some hood vents for the 96-98 w-body Grand Prix new in box that I bought should be here tomorrow. I am going to have them color matched to my car and just lie them on the hood to see if they look okay. Removing that last weather seal maybe be just enough to lower my engine compartment temperature where I won't need the vents but if I do and they look ok I will put them on. The only problem is that they will be functional and will let water in. Have to get some kind of magnetic cover to put underneath if I am caught in the rain, not likely 'cause this is only going to be a sunshine car. If you get a chance look up the Grand Prix on the internet and tell me what you think. They are not too big but their location on the hood in the center toward the side might not look too bad.
When I bought my block from Mike at Dart I promised him a ride when I get it back - I think he still wants that ride. It should be home soon. I got to meet the owners of Martin Motorsports here locally - big time into race car manufacturing. Harold Martin wants to unveil my car at the Woodward Dream cruise this August and introduce it to some of the industry media - I am hoping to make that, I think that would be a real feather in my cap and a great acknowledgement to those who really helped me make this project come to fruition. Something else for you to look up - Martin Motorsports.
Almost forgot - we moved my trailing arms in the back in a bit more, I widened another set of stock rims 1" and I can fit P275/45R x 18's in the wells using 3/4" fitted billet adaptors with ARP studs. I will put P255/45R x 18 on stock rims in the front and for those who aren't sure, my car may even look like it may be a rear wheel drive car with the larger rear tires, I thought a rear wheel stance would likely confuse some people and for people who don't know that our cars are FWD they won't know the difference.
I got Sam's permission before printing this...
06-19-2012, 12:11 PM
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Good afternoon all. I just wanted to keep everyone updated on Sam's Monte.
Continuing dialog: June 8th...
My tranny pan spacer is on, my tech said it's a thing of beauty. I made that myself or at least did all the design and engineering on it; it will be attached with longer ARP bolts. The spacer will give me an extra 3-1/4 quarts of fluid - that will of course help with tranny cooling. My cradle has been notched to fit the lowered tranny pan. It was notched about 1" in width and 14" long and about 1/4" deep, that's at least the size of the flat aluminum bar that will go back in to re-brace the cradle to insure it retains its structural integrity. Waiting for the exhaust system to come back from the coater. Just having that re-done. The headers and downpipe will be black and from there everything else will be silver. We picked the coatings that would give me the best protection from heat and that was the black and silver. The headers will still have the silver heat shields so you will hardly be able to tell they are black - not that it matters. The first coatings were starting to rust already and my tech was unhappy with the quality of material used so he switched and redid it.
I got my hood vents sent to Utah and they will be there Monday and hopefully painted in the next week or so to match. You know on that Chrysler forum I was on this guy had a SRT he was racing off road and he put some hood vents on (the job he did was kinda of hacked but it served a purpose) - he said it probably lowered his compartment temperature 30 or more degrees and he could see lower temps in his water gauge how much lower I don't know but lower of any amount is good. I saw on the Jeep forum a guy put vents in and put a rag over the vents when the car was running and you could see the heat escaping by the movement of the rag - and that rag waved like a flag in a hard breeze. I am not 100% sold on my vents or I would just put them on. With the NACA vents if I can fit them, removing my hood seal, my cowl openings, the Impala Bumper, an added pusher fan on the radiator and the rear radiator if my temps are where they are supposed to be I may simply put the hood vents on the back burner and install them at a later date even if I put them on at all.
I definitely want to keep the stock look and those vents as you well know are not stock on our cars. Someone on the MCF already has said that even my chrome fuel door looks cheezie. That may be true but I like it. That door is car show quality and was not cheap to do. And it is the only thing for the exception of my flush mounted black hood pins that is not stock on the exterior of the car. Any way I talk to much and you aren't feeling well, get better and we will talk later.
June 15th...
Greg: Great news, new tuned damper arrived and is installed - perfect fit. Cradle is notched, gussetted and rewelded for the dropped tranny pan. AISI 1095 Tranny washers, convertor, pan spacer & new ARP bolts, flexplate all installed - ready to put back in car, control arms - all parts here, design done - now to cut, weld, assemble, powder coat and install. Recoated exhaust back from coater waiting to be installed. Not sure on Alternator cooling duct yet but have to be close. Because I am using an ABACO MAF the K&N filter has to be replaced. ABACO recommends conical inverted filter - my tech said he would order that next week. The only company that makes one large enough is S&B filter in California. Did the research on Naca ducts you suggested and all options are now in Tech's hands to make decision which one or two will work. Hood vents will be off to painter in day or so. Already sent them earlier this week. I asked my tech to put an in line fuel temperature gauge somewhere, don't know if he is or not. I sent him an adhesive backed thermometer to stick on my reservoir tank in the trunk so I know the temperature of the intercooler coolant.
My dash pod has to be repaired. Not sure when that will be done. Very soon. My intake marquis has to be made same time.
I didn't tell you but I replaced the serpentine belt with a Gates HD - has alot more strength than the stock one - impossible to rip, tear or break.
Did you ever notice I had my electrical fuse box in the engine compartment chrome plated it is in one of my pix I am sure. This week I sent out my Brake Reservoir cap to chrome plate. The only reason I did that is because we are using Dot 4 brake fluid and the cap says Dot 3. I had one engraved with Dot 4 but it looked bad so I thought a plain chrome one would look nice and if there is no indication what type of fluid is listed on the cap someone will ask first I hope before putting any in - that is if I ever let anyone ever touch this car, LOL!! And my wheel adaptors should be back in a few days. Having steel pressed in inserts put in the centers - these will be fitted to my front and rear hubs. The rear adaptors we are finishing as thin as possible to make sure those 275's are inside the wells in the back. The adaptors for the front are only going to be used so I can get wider slicks on the car at the track - otherwise it will be 255's on the street. Talk soon. SAM
Continuing dialog: June 8th...
My tranny pan spacer is on, my tech said it's a thing of beauty. I made that myself or at least did all the design and engineering on it; it will be attached with longer ARP bolts. The spacer will give me an extra 3-1/4 quarts of fluid - that will of course help with tranny cooling. My cradle has been notched to fit the lowered tranny pan. It was notched about 1" in width and 14" long and about 1/4" deep, that's at least the size of the flat aluminum bar that will go back in to re-brace the cradle to insure it retains its structural integrity. Waiting for the exhaust system to come back from the coater. Just having that re-done. The headers and downpipe will be black and from there everything else will be silver. We picked the coatings that would give me the best protection from heat and that was the black and silver. The headers will still have the silver heat shields so you will hardly be able to tell they are black - not that it matters. The first coatings were starting to rust already and my tech was unhappy with the quality of material used so he switched and redid it.
I got my hood vents sent to Utah and they will be there Monday and hopefully painted in the next week or so to match. You know on that Chrysler forum I was on this guy had a SRT he was racing off road and he put some hood vents on (the job he did was kinda of hacked but it served a purpose) - he said it probably lowered his compartment temperature 30 or more degrees and he could see lower temps in his water gauge how much lower I don't know but lower of any amount is good. I saw on the Jeep forum a guy put vents in and put a rag over the vents when the car was running and you could see the heat escaping by the movement of the rag - and that rag waved like a flag in a hard breeze. I am not 100% sold on my vents or I would just put them on. With the NACA vents if I can fit them, removing my hood seal, my cowl openings, the Impala Bumper, an added pusher fan on the radiator and the rear radiator if my temps are where they are supposed to be I may simply put the hood vents on the back burner and install them at a later date even if I put them on at all.
I definitely want to keep the stock look and those vents as you well know are not stock on our cars. Someone on the MCF already has said that even my chrome fuel door looks cheezie. That may be true but I like it. That door is car show quality and was not cheap to do. And it is the only thing for the exception of my flush mounted black hood pins that is not stock on the exterior of the car. Any way I talk to much and you aren't feeling well, get better and we will talk later.
June 15th...
Greg: Great news, new tuned damper arrived and is installed - perfect fit. Cradle is notched, gussetted and rewelded for the dropped tranny pan. AISI 1095 Tranny washers, convertor, pan spacer & new ARP bolts, flexplate all installed - ready to put back in car, control arms - all parts here, design done - now to cut, weld, assemble, powder coat and install. Recoated exhaust back from coater waiting to be installed. Not sure on Alternator cooling duct yet but have to be close. Because I am using an ABACO MAF the K&N filter has to be replaced. ABACO recommends conical inverted filter - my tech said he would order that next week. The only company that makes one large enough is S&B filter in California. Did the research on Naca ducts you suggested and all options are now in Tech's hands to make decision which one or two will work. Hood vents will be off to painter in day or so. Already sent them earlier this week. I asked my tech to put an in line fuel temperature gauge somewhere, don't know if he is or not. I sent him an adhesive backed thermometer to stick on my reservoir tank in the trunk so I know the temperature of the intercooler coolant.
My dash pod has to be repaired. Not sure when that will be done. Very soon. My intake marquis has to be made same time.
I didn't tell you but I replaced the serpentine belt with a Gates HD - has alot more strength than the stock one - impossible to rip, tear or break.
Did you ever notice I had my electrical fuse box in the engine compartment chrome plated it is in one of my pix I am sure. This week I sent out my Brake Reservoir cap to chrome plate. The only reason I did that is because we are using Dot 4 brake fluid and the cap says Dot 3. I had one engraved with Dot 4 but it looked bad so I thought a plain chrome one would look nice and if there is no indication what type of fluid is listed on the cap someone will ask first I hope before putting any in - that is if I ever let anyone ever touch this car, LOL!! And my wheel adaptors should be back in a few days. Having steel pressed in inserts put in the centers - these will be fitted to my front and rear hubs. The rear adaptors we are finishing as thin as possible to make sure those 275's are inside the wells in the back. The adaptors for the front are only going to be used so I can get wider slicks on the car at the track - otherwise it will be 255's on the street. Talk soon. SAM
06-19-2012, 04:02 PM
#100
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We used an actual jony joint - one that slid right into the cradle and fit in the OEM space that was designed for the original control arm joint. The jony joint we used is commonly used on rock crawlers - it is massive. The control arms are made of 1-1/4" OD 4340 tubing with .125 Wall.