spawne32

iTrader: (2)

Well now that its separated from the original thread, everything is kinda outta context and it looks like im just bashing the car, but to address your points.

What exactly is a "plain corvette"? A corvette is a corvette, while you can get them in a variety of difference add on packages, it doesnt change the fact that this is a supercar platform where as the W-body is not. If you wanna do horsepower vs horsepower comparisons, you can do that on any car your willing to modify enough to make it fast, I could build a 800hp honda civic and put a whoop on a corvette in a straight line roll race on the highway any day of the week, but it doesnt take the honda civic, and make it comparable to a corvette by any sense of the word. That was the only point I was trying to make when I responded to his post. Your comparing apples to oranges. Is the grand prix a good car? Sure it is, i love it, always loved pontiac's, always been a fan of the W-body as well, the GTP has been my arch nemesis for years, but again, its not comparable to a corvette, and you can slice and dice that anyway way you feel is justifiable, because in the end, its still not comparable.

Red_Zone

I'd like to attempt to define "performance" as I understand it to be...

1) track performance = wide turns, straights, hairpins, perhaps a chicane or two, hard braking and hard accelerating. Testing all aspects of a cars design and capabilities as well as all of the drivers skill.

2) Drag performance = straight line acceleration... tests the drivers reaction times and throttle management but little else of the drivers skill... the rest is up to the cars engine.

3) Street performance = a loud threatening engine/exhaust sound is king, stop light launches, next lane speed passing, snapping necks of bystanders who look at you as you drive by. Driver skill not highlighted here too much other than ones ability to remain alert while making sure you understand the cars capabilities, all the while providing the public and other motorist with a SAFE show.

4) highway/freeway performance = 50mph - 120mph bursts commonly... requires an alert and cautiously aggressive driver if traffic is heavier... generally lots of horsepower wins here.

With respect JUST to modified LS4 vs Stock Corvettes.... No question a Corvette should be your ONLY choice for #1 every time.

But #2,#3, and #4? In these realms I don't see any of the Corvettes attributes particularly outshining the modified LS4 platform

Stock LS4 < Stock Vette < Modified LS4 < Modified Vette

spawne32

iTrader: (2)

Front...Wheel...Drive. lol no getting around that one inescapable fact.

Red_Zone

So you are saying I would DESTROY even a MODIFIED Vette... in a race in REVERSE???

spawne32

iTrader: (2)

um, if you could use all your forward gears in reverse...yeh i suppose so. Do you drive around on drags slicks all the time beating these corvettes? Because I believe bfurches video of his latest turbo built car highlights the exact problem with the FWD platform, from a roll, and from a dig. I'm not gonna keep arguing this because its pointless, anyone on here who is in love with their car is always gonna think of it in a positive light regardless of its flaws.

91parkave

iTrader: (4)

Uh...lol rwd spins from a dig or roll. Things don't change regardless of powertrain orientation. Wbody suspension can be customized but people don't want to take the time to do these cars right but throw **** at them all day.

Bfurches video shows him on stock wheels and tires in boost. Yea it's gonna spin just like a rwd car would.

spawne32

iTrader: (2)

Things do change according to powertrain orientation lmao this is like literally one of the biggest known facts about powertrain design. If you don't believe that then there's no point in continuing this thread because you clearly don't even listen to reason at this point.

91parkave

iTrader: (4)

Please tell me what changes, yes the weight transfer aspect changes, however that is negated with proper suspension design, not completley eliminated though.

To clarify, every configuration can spin from a dig or have a hard time hooking without enough preperation and design. But realisticly anything over 600 whp even on the best of slicks can have traction issues. Your whole rant seems like your saying only fwd has these issues, which is b.s

black_betty

what people fail to remember is a corvette, although cheaper performance, is still 50k new as a base model. even that GTI with "320" WHP was at least 30K new for the base as well. I never understood why people are buying 4 cyl turbos for 30+ grand, it baffles me. in those "base model' cars you don't get leather, maybe you do on the vette, but still you paid at least 41k more than I did for my GXP. you look like every other vette on the road, plain and jane. the GTI make you look like a rice burner and might as well have gotten a civic si because everyone puts those into the same category now. I will tell you from peoples reactions when I open up my GXP with just a 3" catted DP and a resonator delete on otherwise stock exhaust people look at it like WTF is that. its a Grand Prix that sounds like a vette but has two kids seats in the back... I will continue to drive my 9k dollar GXP, haul groceries and the kids and spend the 20-41k that I saved on my big a$$ house that I was able to afford with a $223 a month car payment and no a$$hole factory warranty to deal with when I mod my car and it explodes pointing all finger to me. just my 2 cents.

spawne32

iTrader: (2)

I'm not ranting, you guys keep trying to refute my initial argument with more nonsense for some reason, so im just gonna let you win this one. If you want to believe that FWD > RWD then by all means, go ahead. If you want to believe you have a 4 door corvette, very well. lol There are plenty of RWD 600whp cars that don't have traction issues, I don't see any factory FWD car's doing that though, and you won't, ever.

black_betty

oh and the whole FWD vs RWD only matters on the race track with turns now. there are plenty of FWD cars going as fast and sometimes faster in 1/4 mile. just matters of how you have your car set up. the only thing we cant do with FWD is drift and that's gay anyway so really no harm done.

spawne32

iTrader: (2)

I agree with this statement 100%, but you would never claim that its comparable to a corvette, because its not. lol That's the only point I was trying to make from disagreeing with the initial statement. Grand prix will always been a grand prix and a W-body car, regardless of how it sounds or how much power it makes or how many suspension mods you throw at it.

spawne32

iTrader: (2)

I'm talking strictly about a stock for stock comparison of drivetrain configurations, you can throw money at any car and make it perform better. I've seen GEO metro's that could run down vettes.

black_betty

well that's all about the driver as well remember. most inexperienced drivers know two pedal positions, none and mashed to the floor. plus a lot of those cars are high end exotics and are geared for top speed not acceleration. for example the Porsche 911 gt2 is a rwd car and doesn't have traction issues, but it also does 200+ mph and casts upwars of 200k dollars..... where as the gt500 will have a **** ton of traction issues and only do 160.

spawne32

iTrader: (2)

Where do you guys get these notions that RWD cars have this many problems with traction? I question how many of you have actually been to a race track lol I raced with a GT500 a few weeks ago at the track that was modded on street radials on stock wheels and he was pulling 1.7 60 ft's.

black_betty

very true its not a corvette, but when it outruns a corvette the corvette owners face is usually priceless. my one buddy had a vw jetta vr6 turbo back in the day and blew the doors off, like bus lengths, off of a ls2 vette. the vette was so pissed and was cursing at him, in reply he asked how it felt to get beat by his grocery getting family sedan. it takes a certain person to envy cars that are fast and aren't supposed to be fast. a vette is fast and is built and bought to be fast. im a wow factor/ego crusher type of person. im sure many of us in the LS4 forum are as well.

black_betty

driver mod

spawne32

iTrader: (2)

of course we are, that's why we get enjoyment out of having that level of performance to compete with such cars, but you have to be prepared to put in work to negate the disadvantages of this car to be competitive with a purpose built race car.

Same driver, two different cars, FWD and RWD I can guarantee you the FWD car will have issues putting the power to the ground given the same power levels where as the RWD car would not. I know this, because I have first hand experience. lol

black_betty

you have to pay to play with any car you buy and want fast. if the driver is used to it and has technique down not so much, but yes we need to do a little more to get power to the ground.