Trans discussion
10-26-2015, 08:14 PM
#1
Trans discussion Trans pressure is DECREASED when cold to avoid damage due to higher viscosity from cold fluid. This is done via the force apply motor, higher the value in ma the lower the fluid pressure. This value is scaled across the entire temperature range even into overtemp and abuse mode. Do yourself a favor rottonj and don't destroy that new trans your planning on putting in by running it ice cold. There is a reason these things have "operating temps". You can call it apples to oranges to pears or whatever other fruit you can think of, it all has the same purpose which is to get the trans to its normally functioning temperature for maximum longevity.
10-26-2015, 08:26 PM
#2
looked again diablo settings had it increased factory has it decreased in the shift modifier table. Regardless from 111.2 to 219 degrees there is no scaling of trans fluid pressure, that is your "operating range". Also again dex 6 is a synthetic fluid, viscosity stays the same through a wide range of temperatures. Quit spreading old wives tales of whats too cold, because no one has yet to have a failure from the fluid being too cold in the history of 4T65's. We all know what consistently running them hot will do.
10-26-2015, 08:54 PM
#3
I was looking at my first read file which was from the Diablo tuner i had for all of a month when i got the car and went to hp tuners. I then went and looked at a saved copy of a factory gxp tune. But hey if you want to be petty then fine. While we may battle alot over stuff you of all people know I have more than enough credit around here.
10-26-2015, 09:03 PM
#4
I was looking at my first read file which was from the Diablo tuner i had for all of a month when i got the car and went to hp tuners. I then went and looked at a saved copy of a factory gxp tune. But hey if you want to be petty then fine. While we may battle alot over stuff you of all people know I have more than enough credit around here.
10-26-2015, 09:33 PM
#5
Damage, I'm on a factory trans at 112k, minus the Diy shift kit and cooler, like alot of you already have. First off your tcc apply tables are irrelevant to this conversation. As slipping the converter was for comfort and nvh purposes. That should be set to to 100max and 90 min anyway across the board.
Force motor current table...shows it's increasing lime pressure as it's commanded to do...less pressure at colder fluid Temps but the diffrence between 68 and 154 is miniscule.
Shift pressure modifiers...yea there are modifiers from the factory, but then again do you honestly believe gm engineering made these trans settings to keep it running for a long time? Look at all the failures even in bone stock form at 30k...I don't know why u swing from the gm doing best of the consumer tree but I dont. It's also why i zero out my trans pressure modifier tables. And other various things. Keep thinking that gm made these transmissions and the crap tume too last if you want too.real world data shows otherwise
Force motor current table...shows it's increasing lime pressure as it's commanded to do...less pressure at colder fluid Temps but the diffrence between 68 and 154 is miniscule.
Shift pressure modifiers...yea there are modifiers from the factory, but then again do you honestly believe gm engineering made these trans settings to keep it running for a long time? Look at all the failures even in bone stock form at 30k...I don't know why u swing from the gm doing best of the consumer tree but I dont. It's also why i zero out my trans pressure modifier tables. And other various things. Keep thinking that gm made these transmissions and the crap tume too last if you want too.real world data shows otherwise
10-26-2015, 10:00 PM
#6
Damage, I'm on a factory trans at 112k, minus the Diy shift kit and cooler, like alot of you already have. First off your tcc apply tables are irrelevant to this conversation. As slipping the converter was for comfort and nvh purposes. That should be set to to 100max and 90 min anyway across the board.
Force motor current table...shows it's increasing lime pressure as it's commanded to do...less pressure at colder fluid Temps but the diffrence between 68 and 154 is miniscule.
Shift pressure modifiers...yea there are modifiers from the factory, but then again do you honestly believe gm engineering made these trans settings to keep it running for a long time? Look at all the failures even in bone stock form at 30k...I don't know why u swing from the gm doing best of the consumer tree but I dont. It's also why i zero out my trans pressure modifier tables. And other various things. Keep thinking that gm made these transmissions and the crap tume too last if you want too.real world data shows otherwise
Force motor current table...shows it's increasing lime pressure as it's commanded to do...less pressure at colder fluid Temps but the diffrence between 68 and 154 is miniscule.
Shift pressure modifiers...yea there are modifiers from the factory, but then again do you honestly believe gm engineering made these trans settings to keep it running for a long time? Look at all the failures even in bone stock form at 30k...I don't know why u swing from the gm doing best of the consumer tree but I dont. It's also why i zero out my trans pressure modifier tables. And other various things. Keep thinking that gm made these transmissions and the crap tume too last if you want too.real world data shows otherwise
Ok again, more false information that YOU think is correct. Factory torque converter clutches are not designed for on and off engagement, that is a fast way to damage the clutch. If your not running a performance torque converter that requires no clutch slip thats fine but otherwise you s houldnt be making the converter engage that harshly. This is a well known FACT and any performance transmission shop or torque converter company will tell you this. (READ: http://www.transtar1.com/TranstarInd...TLT-TC-035.pdf )
Secondly, you have no clue what the force motor apply current values translate into in terms of PSI changes because youve never recorded it, and every transmission is different. Perfect example is this thread over on hptuners
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...t-Calibrations
which shows some recorded differences in line pressures based on force motor current milliamp changes. 100 miliamps in some cases can be well over 10psi in line pressure which is a drastic change.
Lastly, rottonj's transmission is bone stock, as is his car, and its not tuned, which means that all of the tables I listed which are just some of the values which you CAN modify are completely stock on his car, which will OBVIOUSLY have a significant impact on the way his trans functions vs how it would behave if it was reaching a normal operating temperature.
10-26-2015, 11:20 PM
#7
Well my converter should of blown up 3 years ago. According to you. Getting back to the base point. Rottonj's trans will not blow itself because it was at 118 degrees on his cummute. Period. Him being stock still doesn't matter.
The rest of your googling means nothing at this point.
The rest of your googling means nothing at this point.
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10-27-2015, 12:56 AM
#8
Well my converter should of blown up 3 years ago. According to you. Getting back to the base point. Rottonj's trans will not blow itself because it was at 118 degrees on his cummute. Period. Him being stock still doesn't matter.
The rest of your googling means nothing at this point.
The rest of your googling means nothing at this point.
Lol since my googling is too much for you, i really recommend you do a little more reading on your own before you go around telling people they are wrong. FYI regardless of the fact that his transmission has dexron 6 in it, it still has a higher viscosity when cold vs when hot. In fact that is not even the primary reason for the switch, its primary upgrade purpose is that it is significantly more sheer stable and resists foaming far better then dexron 3 ever did which aids in the longevity of the transmission hard parts. There are any number of articles you can read on the internet that explain the reason behind why your trans should always be within the proper operating temp. Not to mention the fact that its october, and where he lives his temperatures are going to plummet during the winter time. If his trans operating temperature averages 118* now when its 35 degrees out, whats it going to be when its -10? We still going to be having this same conversation about how there's nothing wrong with it when his trans is running at 85*? Or will you concede the fact that its a problem then.
10-27-2015, 08:36 AM
#9
There is alot of stuff on your car that defies logic. Lol since my googling is too much for you, i really recommend you do a little more reading on your own before you go around telling people they are wrong. FYI regardless of the fact that his transmission has dexron 6 in it, it still has a higher viscosity when cold vs when hot. In fact that is not even the primary reason for the switch, its primary upgrade purpose is that it is significantly more sheer stable and resists foaming far better then dexron 3 ever did which aids in the longevity of the transmission hard parts. There are any number of articles you can read on the internet that explain the reason behind why your trans should always be within the proper operating temp. Not to mention the fact that its october, and where he lives his temperatures are going to plummet during the winter time. If his trans operating temperature averages 118* now when its 35 degrees out, whats it going to be when its -10? We still going to be having this same conversation about how there's nothing wrong with it when his trans is running at 85*? Or will you concede the fact that its a problem then.
Lol since my googling is too much for you, i really recommend you do a little more reading on your own before you go around telling people they are wrong. FYI regardless of the fact that his transmission has dexron 6 in it, it still has a higher viscosity when cold vs when hot. In fact that is not even the primary reason for the switch, its primary upgrade purpose is that it is significantly more sheer stable and resists foaming far better then dexron 3 ever did which aids in the longevity of the transmission hard parts. There are any number of articles you can read on the internet that explain the reason behind why your trans should always be within the proper operating temp. Not to mention the fact that its october, and where he lives his temperatures are going to plummet during the winter time. If his trans operating temperature averages 118* now when its 35 degrees out, whats it going to be when its -10? We still going to be having this same conversation about how there's nothing wrong with it when his trans is running at 85*? Or will you concede the fact that its a problem then.I addressed rottonj's concerns in the begging sing he could easily block off some surface area of his cooler to help bring the temp up if he chooses too. Also you seem to forget that dex6 being the synthetic it is was alsowant to cut parasitic loss and improve fuel economy especially when cold due to it's flow properties. And other thimgs you mentioned.
10-27-2015, 09:50 AM
#10
Dexron 6 is a synthetic blend from GM, it is not a full synthetic. You need to buy aftermarket dex6 compatible fluid in order to get full synthetic versions. GM's ACdelco brand that they sell in dealers uses a "group 3" base stock, hardly a synthetic if you know anything about oil but it goes under the same guise as synthetic as mobil 1 has over the years using similar base stocks. If you want a full synthetic Dex6 compatible fluid run Redline D6, which is what ill be switching to next spring.
10-30-2015, 09:06 PM
#15
10-30-2015, 10:16 PM
#16
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1028878
10-30-2015, 10:40 PM
#17
Lol yea some delers still have the price up there but not everywhere it's gone done to 15.bucks here. I'd rather quality **** over redline atf
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1028878
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1028878
http://www.gmpowertrain.com/VehicleE...DEXRON-VI.aspx
10-31-2015, 01:06 AM
#18
Just saying dex hp is factory fill in in the new autos and the fastest being the new vettes. The hp fluid is thoroughly been proven real world, and I never said redline wasnt, however I don't see gm auto owners making the jump to redline for it's supposed superior properties. While it sounds great on paper, I don't see real world hard data on your d6. Amsoil, yes definitely. But never redline. And before you get your panties wet, I'm talking strictly in the case of gm autos that ran or run dex 6 and swapped to redline and had a thorough test.
10-31-2015, 11:00 AM
#19
TECH Fanatic
On a side note, I've had my TEP transmission 1 year now. With 5,000 miles and enough burnouts to ruin a brand new set of nitto's. Just thought I would add my glorious news to this thread.