Low Oil Level / High Oil consumption
I've racked up 12,300 miles over the past 11 months. When i last changed my oil, i had gone about 4000+ mi and was nearing 10% on the Oil Life Monitor. By that time, i had lost at least a quart of oil. During that second oil change, i only re-filled 4.5 of the 6 qt bottles of oil. I figure at MOST 1/2qt was lost to the filter and to spillage/stuff stuck in the drain pan. I switched to Mobil1 on that 2nd oil change.
How many others are changing their own oil and seeing this? How many have had a dealer say you're low? How many check their oil regularly and see that they're lower than they should be?
I'm at 20% now (roughly 5000mi so far on this oil) and i know i've dropped from the 3rd (the highest) dot on the dipstick to the 1st (lowest). I hoped M1 would stand up better in this engine, but it's not.
Is this a cause for concern that i should bring up to my dealer?
Nissan just recalled TONS of 2.5L engines due to high oil consumption. Do you think this is bad enough to warrant such a panic?
[EDIT: Also, most of this mileage is City, stop-n-go driving. If i had to estimate the amount of highway driving i've done, i'd say it's less than 4000 of these miles]
Last edited by BuffaloSS; Sep 5, 2006 at 12:36 PM.
I figure 1 quart in 9000 miles is not bad. Yours being low after 4000 miles is probably due to being mostly city driving. If I had to guess most of the oil consumption is probably through the pcv system.
I figure 1 quart in 9000 miles is not bad. Yours being low after 4000 miles is probably due to being mostly city driving. If I had to guess most of the oil consumption is probably through the pcv system.
You don't change your oil for 9000 miles!? Damn, I change mine at least every 3000, usually around 2000 miles, and I use fully Mobil 1. Course it takes me about 2 - 3 months to get that many miles.
One funny thing is that you get a warning on startup when you reach 5% oil life. After you reach 0% it quits warning you at all. Its like the computer gives up and figures you are never going to change it.
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Haha, I see these cars got smart. When I was in school I worked at a gas station and you should have seen all the mechanical mayhem from people not looking at or changing oil. Notable instances were the new caddy driven by an old lady, "change oil now" on the dashboard, 12K miles, and around 3-4 quarts low (nothing on the dipstick when checked). Probably never changed. And of course the numerious puzzled expressions when asking what that noise under the hood was and finding from me there was no oil in the engine a few times. I guess all those flashing lights on the dash must have been just suggestions to have the car serviced, eh?
People leasing cars were the worst, I'd tell them they are about 3 quarts low and they would say "just put a quart in, it's a lease and I'm getting rid of it soon". After seeing all this (in a wealthier area no less, I'd hate to see what it would be like in poorer areas), I cannot see how people could buy a used car.If I remember right GM extended the oil life monitor "lifespan" of the oil in the 2003 model year. So I figure in 5 years or so we will find out if that extended interval was good or if we will see lots of cars with low oil pressure from chewed up crank bearings when the oil breaks down and the filter starts bypassing due to being plugged full of crud due to a long change interval.
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I think i filled up about as much as you.
With M1 and all-city driving, i'm down about a qt right now with 20% on the OLM.
However, it is noticeably (seemingly) cooler with the M1 (much less engine heat) Get a good oil and oil filter and everything will be fine. The rest of the car will tear up loooong before your engine fails due to excessive wear.
I use semi-synthetic Valvoline (Durablend?) in my MCSS, and changed it when it had 5,000 mines, and 60% left on the OCM. That's like an estimated 12K oil change interval - WOW! I probably do 95% highway getting around town.
I feel if you use the OCM as a guide, you should at least buy the good oil and filter. I use the NAPA Gold 1522 on both cars, which I think is an inch longer than the stock filters. Hopefully it helps with better filtration and more media. Cost is around $7.
Mobil 1 was THE oil in the 90's, but I was under the impression that Mobil 1 would tend to exaggerate any oiling issues / leaks. I agree that it's good oil, but I chose the Valvoline because of that issue. I'm sure they're "all the same" these days.
I will look at my situation more closely - thanks for the warning. I won't go the 12K w/o an oil change. I leased Imp's before this car, followed GM OCM recommendations, usually 9,000 miles, but never really felt good about it, but hey - the General said so. I'm thinking 6K w/ the Durablend is where I'm at.
Mike
Mike
being a degreed engineer, myself, I put a lot of stock in what a real-live SAE test report says.
What I said is true for synthetics, in particular, because the additive packages have to last longer than regular oil... Standard dino oil's additive packages only take in the 500 mile neighborhood to start working...
I'll post up a summary of the SAE report on Monday when I'm at my work computer, but I found the summary with a Google search, so it should be pretty easy to find... I think it was on a TDI forum...
Mike
I suggest some lite reading from http://www.sae.org "Title: Extended Oil Drain Intervals - Conservation of Resources Or Reduction of Engine Life (Part Ii)"
After reading that you may never change your oil again at even 10,000 miles!
There are millions of miles of oil analysis that not only prove short duration changes increase wear but also result in a lack of additive activation in the motor. If you own a Jiffy Lube then I would expect you to subscribe to the "3,000 mile Mentality" myth.
Oil addiitives are activated by heat and pressure. Due to the additives having to hold up over time ie longer than 10,000 miles the formulations take a certain period of time to become active in protecting the motor. Draining the oil at lets say 3,000 miles simply means the additives have just become active at the point you are draining your oil! In other words you are increasing wear by about 500% doing 3,000 mile drain intervals!
Oils that carry the extended drain ratings such as 506.01, 507.00 etc mean that the additives are formulated to remain active for periods up to 2 years, 40,000kms or 640 hours of usage. Oils like Mobil 1 0w40 are formulated to withstand 400F sump temps WITHOUT breaking down and losing viscosity. Furthermore the oils cannot break down due to the PAO makeup of the oil. These oils do not rely on elastomers like the conventional oils do. This means that the oil can fully protect your motor at any temperature without the conern of thermal break-down and thinning out of grade.
If you doubt the 10K oil change intervals perform an oil sample at 1,000 miles. Most cars with a fresh sump of oil will peak out at the 1,000 mile mark. After that the wear metals may increase by only 5-10% over the course of 10,000 miles! Nearly 90% of the engine wear occurs in the first 1,000 miles on an oil change! Increasing oil change frequency increases the duration your engine spends in the activation period of the additives and greatly increases the damage in your motor from failing to follow the guidlelines of the manufacturer.
Just looking at iron in a VW motor typical readings are around 20-35ppm after 15,000 miles of use maximum on a motor that has more than 60,000 miles. The oil filter is not capable of filtering this much metal simply because the wear metals are so small they can't be filtered from the oil. Also because there is so little wear metal you do not get wear as a result of the metal being suspended in the oil.
Dispersants require time to bond to the wear metals and byproducts in your engine oil. As byproducts such as soot (gasoline or diesel make soot just different sizes which discolor the oil) are created additives coat them and prevent them from clumping and becoming larger. Typical soot particles in diesel oil are in the nanometer range in terms of size 10 times smaller than what any bypass filter can even capture which is rated at 2 microns absolute. Your oil filter in your motor is rated at capturing particles in the 7 micron range with only a 75% first pass rating...Bottom line is your car would last forever if you change the oil every 20,000 miles and NEVER replace the oil filter simply because your motor is not making enough metal or by-products to ever get captured! Oils especially those for diesels can handle upwards of 8% soot, that my friend is a LOT of soot! to put that in perspective a typical motor after 25,000 miles without an oil change or filter change will only have 1% soot in the oil. This oil will appear tar black yet the oil still has 80% of its rated levels of protection remaining!
Most oils are limited by time in the sump rather than miles due to sulfur in the fuel. Most gasoline motors can safely go 2 years between changes when using quality oils formulated for extended drains such as Mobil 1 0w40 and Truck and SUV 5w40. These oils along with those sold as VW 506.01 have very high TBN ratings that neutralize acid formation for upwards of two years (1 year in diesels due to higher sulfur content wich causes the acids).
Heres the deal, forget the myths about frequent oil changes and basing your perceptions on how the oil looks. The best advice is use a quality oil and drain it at the specified interval. The worst thing you can do to a modern car is overmaintain it, yes this is possible due to the very specific regimine that VW engineers figured out to keep your car running at peak performance with maximum durability.
And check out here too: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=885843
I have not read the "actual" SAE paper on it, because they want $10 to download it, but I've read several "summarys" that read almost exactly like this, so I'm not worried about it really... Plus, I couldn't post the report up on the 'net, because they are a bit sticky about copyright stuff...
Mike
Second, it's an SAE test report on gasoline engines! This particular summary of the SAE test report on gasoline engines is just from a TDI forum!
Mike
Last edited by bartonmd; Oct 23, 2006 at 06:58 AM.

