Crimes agains humanity.
01-20-2009, 07:51 PM
#22
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I'm actually typing up the letter, and getting all the crap ready to send to Pay-Pal, to state my case and hope that they'll either go after the dude and give/get me some compensation or at least compensate me. Not just because I really deserve it, for being absolutely screwed over and lied to, but I've been a loyal customer for about 8 years. Sadly I won't have a 2500 stall since it's junk as well, it'll just be a stock 2000 stall :\ At least it's 200rpm higher than factory F-Body heh And I know what parts will be going into it this time, as I'll be buying them and this shop (very reputable thankfully) will install them. Including labor, I'm looking at a final cost of about the same that I shelled out for this lemon/boat anchor ($550) 
$1100 would've gotten me a pretty sweet trans! Not that I need one that hefty heh
$1100 would've gotten me a pretty sweet trans! Not that I need one that hefty heh
01-20-2009, 08:21 PM
#23
Jason, thanks for the offer of help. 
To all the other guys who have some similar experiences, you always knew you were not alone... and mine is a true story that shows a lot of us share the same pain and frustration.
I just got back from a 2-hour visit with the new builder. We went over everything together. He is down to earth and very legit. He is a human being, but he isn't going anywhere and I can tell that he stands behind his work 100%. He does want to dyno the new build before it leaves the shop, for both of our peace of mind. I will have to source an LT4 carb intake somewhere, but that will be a small price to pay to have the motor broken in and totally verified before it is out of the builder's sight.
Yeah, stories of performance shops cutting corners and then disappearing or trying to weasel out when their works turns out bad are way too common. It is tough to run a small business and the temptation can be strong for some folks to cheat their customers. Luckily my new builder has been around for a long time and intends to be around even longer.
Tony Shepard has shared this misery with me over the last two years. I have had a few other great friends graciously share their time turning wrenches next to me, but Tony has gone above and beyond. He has time, sweat, and even a little blood wrapped up in my car and this has hit him hard too.
To all the other guys who have some similar experiences, you always knew you were not alone... and mine is a true story that shows a lot of us share the same pain and frustration.
I just got back from a 2-hour visit with the new builder. We went over everything together. He is down to earth and very legit. He is a human being, but he isn't going anywhere and I can tell that he stands behind his work 100%. He does want to dyno the new build before it leaves the shop, for both of our peace of mind. I will have to source an LT4 carb intake somewhere, but that will be a small price to pay to have the motor broken in and totally verified before it is out of the builder's sight.
Yeah, stories of performance shops cutting corners and then disappearing or trying to weasel out when their works turns out bad are way too common. It is tough to run a small business and the temptation can be strong for some folks to cheat their customers. Luckily my new builder has been around for a long time and intends to be around even longer.
Tony Shepard has shared this misery with me over the last two years. I have had a few other great friends graciously share their time turning wrenches next to me, but Tony has gone above and beyond. He has time, sweat, and even a little blood wrapped up in my car and this has hit him hard too.
01-20-2009, 09:35 PM
#24
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Wow..... Todd, Tony kept me abreast of what was going on with the aforementioned shop and man I feel for both of you guys.... If you guys need anything motor related or you get tired of dealing with the same old same old let me know. I already told Tony that my engine builder was completely willing to do an out of state deal and build a simply VICIOUS motor.... My motor is a friggin tank. It went 10.60's all motor the first time at the track. With gears optimized for nitrous, with a nitrous cam....
Did that builder ever come to the track with you and stand behind his product, lashing valves, offering tuning advice, or simply being there for support????
Reason I ask is because lately that is what I look for in engine builders. Are these guys out at the track, helping racers with their products? Or are they just giving face time telling you "yeah everyone runs my motors" yet you have yet to see anyone with that guys engine.... I'm lucky because i'm great friends with my engine guy. I know his wife, he knows my kids, we hang out on the weekends. We race together. I have used his shop to do **** to my car after hours and helped me a ton. My motor took awhile to build but if I have anything to say about builders that if they aren't busy that should tell you something
Again I know your story Todd as well as tony's and if you guys need assistance or want to do a motor out of state (even though I know that's a painful order situation not being able to drive over and check on it) let me know. I'm only as far as a phone call.... Not saying my motor is the end all be all or it's the ****, BUT I will tell you this: It was my engine builder that was damn near swapping out the jets from a 300 shot to a 400 shot the last time I was at the track and my tuner was the one who told him to hold off... Any engine builder who stands behind his product enough to say "Don't worry, it'll take that 4 hundo all day" is a guy who you want building your ****.....
Good luck with your build Todd. I hope it turns out well...
Did that builder ever come to the track with you and stand behind his product, lashing valves, offering tuning advice, or simply being there for support????
Reason I ask is because lately that is what I look for in engine builders. Are these guys out at the track, helping racers with their products? Or are they just giving face time telling you "yeah everyone runs my motors" yet you have yet to see anyone with that guys engine.... I'm lucky because i'm great friends with my engine guy. I know his wife, he knows my kids, we hang out on the weekends. We race together. I have used his shop to do **** to my car after hours and helped me a ton. My motor took awhile to build but if I have anything to say about builders that if they aren't busy that should tell you something
Again I know your story Todd as well as tony's and if you guys need assistance or want to do a motor out of state (even though I know that's a painful order situation not being able to drive over and check on it) let me know. I'm only as far as a phone call.... Not saying my motor is the end all be all or it's the ****, BUT I will tell you this: It was my engine builder that was damn near swapping out the jets from a 300 shot to a 400 shot the last time I was at the track and my tuner was the one who told him to hold off... Any engine builder who stands behind his product enough to say "Don't worry, it'll take that 4 hundo all day" is a guy who you want building your ****.....
Good luck with your build Todd. I hope it turns out well...
01-20-2009, 10:21 PM
#25
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Yeah, stories of performance shops cutting corners and then disappearing or trying to weasel out when their works turns out bad are way too common. It is tough to run a small business and the temptation can be strong for some folks to cheat their customers. Luckily my new builder has been around for a long time and intends to be around even longer.
I'm not looking forward to going through the BS to try and get some reimbursement.
Pictures speak louder than words, so here's what "happened in shipping" with ZERO external case damage and a bolted on tail housing that wasn't broke (but oddly looks almost brand new... wonder why? Maybe because the original was shattered from whatever caused the rest of this damage)
01-20-2009, 11:29 PM
#26
I feel you pain. Ive had a bunch of problems with my car. A few years ago when I did a 6-speed swap the 1st tranny a bad 5-6th bearing, and the 2nd one he sent was damaged in shipping, so finally the 3rd one was defect free. Then about a year and a half ago my car was down for over 6 months since I decided to go with a popular online head porter and basically anything that could be wrong with a set of heads was. Then just this past month I pulled my tranny 3 times trying to chase down a vibration after a clutch install which turned out to be the flywheel. I guess the guy messed it up resurfacing it. 
None of this was obviously as serious as your situation, but it feels like finding quality work/shops is becoming harder and harder to come by, especially with all the bs advertising online.
None of this was obviously as serious as your situation, but it feels like finding quality work/shops is becoming harder and harder to come by, especially with all the bs advertising online.
01-21-2009, 08:39 AM
#28
I know EXACTLY where you are coming from. I let the machinist/builder put mine together the first time. I get it in the car, get it running. Oil leak at the rear. I drive myself nuts trying to find it. I pull the trans install a new rear main, nope that didnt fix it. SO I decide to pull the pan in the car, what brain damage that was. Guess what I found? On the rear main seal adapter studs in the oil pan gasket there are little steel washer deals to stop you from overtightening the gasket. When the original gasket was pulled off the little washers stayed in place, so when the new gasket went on it couldnt tighten up.
SO I come out the next morning to see water running down the back of the INSIDE of the engine WTF???????? Only thing we could figure is hanging the engine by its carb mount to fix the oil pan somehow broke the seal on the intake gaskets. So I change them.SUCKS in the car with my dummy distributor I have in the back of the intake. I replace the oil pan gasket and button it up.
Couple days later I am driving the car I look at the temp gauge and its climbing FAST, I shut it down. Open the radiator, empty. Pull the dipstick, its all in the pan. The head conversion, Gen1 to Gen2 was not done correctly. SO I pull the heads off to find part of #8 pistons ring land gone, out comes the engine.
SO I get the heads re done, replace 2 pistons.I Put it back together. Back in the car.
I could go on and on, seems to be happy now and running well.
BUT I can tell you guys this, my machine shop PAID ME $300 to fix his screw up on the oil pan. He is straightup, honest and has treated me fair. He has built more than a few LT1's.
SO I come out the next morning to see water running down the back of the INSIDE of the engine WTF???????? Only thing we could figure is hanging the engine by its carb mount to fix the oil pan somehow broke the seal on the intake gaskets. So I change them.SUCKS in the car with my dummy distributor I have in the back of the intake. I replace the oil pan gasket and button it up.
Couple days later I am driving the car I look at the temp gauge and its climbing FAST, I shut it down. Open the radiator, empty. Pull the dipstick, its all in the pan. The head conversion, Gen1 to Gen2 was not done correctly. SO I pull the heads off to find part of #8 pistons ring land gone, out comes the engine.
SO I get the heads re done, replace 2 pistons.I Put it back together. Back in the car.
I could go on and on, seems to be happy now and running well.
BUT I can tell you guys this, my machine shop PAID ME $300 to fix his screw up on the oil pan. He is straightup, honest and has treated me fair. He has built more than a few LT1's.
Last edited by Speed Density; 01-21-2009 at 05:43 PM. Reason: non sponsor info removed
01-21-2009, 10:39 AM
#29
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I know how you guys feel about finding a decent builder, I spun a bearing this summer and decided to go with a 383 this time, I looked high and low for a reputable builder I could trust and stumbled onto this guy Jacob Cook he stands by his work and warranties his motors 2 years, plus a great guy, very honest and makes great motor, the motor I got is flawless and is amazingly strong.
Check him out at http://www.cpengines.com/
Check him out at http://www.cpengines.com/
01-21-2009, 11:42 AM
#30
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. I won't kid you, my motor wasn't cheap. But it's built right...... Stuff like seats on the bottom of valvesprings that come from the factory out of the package with a tiny bit of slack allowing the spring to move around slightly.... So he threw them in the trash and ordered the most trick titanium seats made... Says it all impacts valvetrain stability, RPM capability and not floating valves.... Manton pushrods that are like small tree trunks.... Only competent engine builders have access to the type of info to put together parts that work. It's all in the combo and if that combo is jacked you're not gonna be happy...
So if you're looking around deciding on a builder let me know and i can see what I can do...
So if you're looking around deciding on a builder let me know and i can see what I can do...
Last edited by Speed Density; 01-21-2009 at 12:32 PM. Reason: non sponsor info removed.
01-21-2009, 05:41 PM
#31
I am going to try. I will not rush my builder, nor would he let me. He is very meticulous. He said if it's a choice between getting the motor done in time for the event, or getting it done right... well I'm going to miss the event. That's the right attitude from a builder. We spent over an hour last night picking up different heads off the shelf and him explaining how he likes to cut valve jobs - that's how detailed he is.
01-21-2009, 06:09 PM
#32
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I am going to try. I will not rush my builder, nor would he let me. He is very meticulous. He said if it's a choice between getting the motor done in time for the event, or getting it done right... well I'm going to miss the event. That's the right attitude from a builder. We spent over an hour last night picking up different heads off the shelf and him explaining how he likes to cut valve jobs - that's how detailed he is.
01-21-2009, 06:27 PM
#33
I know how you guys feel. I have one machinist within 500 miles that I trust, and he's GREAT at what he does. As a professional, I've seen people get the screw job many many times. It is truly sad that there are shops out there that call themselves good at what they do and will halfass whatever they can just to cut cost, let alone the entire lack of skill issue. Best of luck to all of you who have been screwed--hope you can find one decent builder in this sea of wannabes!
01-23-2009, 05:03 PM
#34
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This is terrible to read. I remember seeing both the Beast and Squeaky (i'm pretty sure it was squeaky) at 1431, and it's just bad to hear anything that bad befall such a machine.
Oh, on a side note, still runnin the chrome snowflakes on squeaky or did ya upgrade those yet?
Oh, on a side note, still runnin the chrome snowflakes on squeaky or did ya upgrade those yet?
01-23-2009, 05:13 PM
#35
I understand your not wanting to out a "reputable" shop as the hacks they are, BUT at the same time how many guys bit their lip who could have told you the problems you were going to have.
It is a tough call, a genuinely good shop can be hurt by one mistake or even the mistake of a stupid customer who blames them for something he himself did wrong, at the same time though I see more bad shops living well of an undeserved reputation.
Hope it all works out in the end.
It is a tough call, a genuinely good shop can be hurt by one mistake or even the mistake of a stupid customer who blames them for something he himself did wrong, at the same time though I see more bad shops living well of an undeserved reputation.
Hope it all works out in the end.
01-23-2009, 06:58 PM
#36
This is terrible to read. I remember seeing both the Beast and Squeaky (i'm pretty sure it was squeaky) at 1431, and it's just bad to hear anything that bad befall such a machine.
Oh, on a side note, still runnin the chrome snowflakes on squeaky or did ya upgrade those yet?
Oh, on a side note, still runnin the chrome snowflakes on squeaky or did ya upgrade those yet?
Squeaky is still on the chrome snowflakes.
My taste in aftermarket wheels is very expensive (ie. I'd love to see some FM10's on her) and the Blue Beast + maintenance on the fleet always seems to prevent me from being able to save up money for wheels.
It's not all bad. It's kinda fun to keep her on the OEM wheels. When someone fails to hear the D1SC, they just look at the car and think it's basically stock with some exhaust work.
01-23-2009, 07:14 PM
#37
I understand your not wanting to out a "reputable" shop as the hacks they are, BUT at the same time how many guys bit their lip who could have told you the problems you were going to have.
It is a tough call, a genuinely good shop can be hurt by one mistake or even the mistake of a stupid customer who blames them for something he himself did wrong, at the same time though I see more bad shops living well of an undeserved reputation.
Hope it all works out in the end.
It is a tough call, a genuinely good shop can be hurt by one mistake or even the mistake of a stupid customer who blames them for something he himself did wrong, at the same time though I see more bad shops living well of an undeserved reputation.
Hope it all works out in the end.
That same builder has done some great work for other people here, it's just hard for me to trust or reccomend them based on what we found in my motor. Could have been just one bad employee, maybe even someone who was since let go. I have no idea of the circumstances surrounding that original build. I did, however, call that shop prior to buying the motor and confirmed that they had built it for the seller. They remembered him and the motor. I did that because I thought it would be prudent. Make sure he didn't slap it together in his garage at home kinda thing. Based on that shop's rep on this board etc, I was tempted not to tear it down... but we wanted to be 100% sure about everything. That turned out to be a very good idea. I just had no clue back at that point in time that MY builder would do me so wrong.
01-23-2009, 08:51 PM
#39
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I feel you tws!! I have built 3 engines so far, and will be doing two more before april!!!
I have rebuilt a 3.0 dodge in school (never left school i did EVERYTHING!!!! it was completely stock) next was a 2.2 cavi engine, stock bottom, but I pnp'd the head and tb for learning, I did this at home and I did all the diss and reassembly, along with honing the cylinders but had the valve job and head milled at a local shop, later I took the block to them, they decked it, and pressed on the new pistons and installed freeze plugs, well while doing the freeze plugs they cracked the block and neglected to tell us, luckily I did the reassembly, so the first thing I saw was the crack!!! Next I rebuilt a 360 in a dodge truck, pnp heads, bigger cam, better springs, .030 over, higher compression, the works, once again I did all assembly and took it to a different shop for machine work, he messed up somehting little (don't remember what) but he stood behind it 100% and put a super warranty on an engine that I put together!! so as you can see I have had a few issues with machine shops, I am currently rebuilding my lt1, and I am having my buddy do all the machine work on it! he actually went to a local tech school, and is doing the work there, and I have more faith in his work than the others!!!!
Engines are not that hard to rebuild, but you have to be meticulous, I am very meticulous and have some killer OCD which when it comes to rebuilding an engine is super helpful!!! I hope your new engine comes out VERY well, with no issues!!!
I have rebuilt a 3.0 dodge in school (never left school i did EVERYTHING!!!! it was completely stock) next was a 2.2 cavi engine, stock bottom, but I pnp'd the head and tb for learning, I did this at home and I did all the diss and reassembly, along with honing the cylinders but had the valve job and head milled at a local shop, later I took the block to them, they decked it, and pressed on the new pistons and installed freeze plugs, well while doing the freeze plugs they cracked the block and neglected to tell us, luckily I did the reassembly, so the first thing I saw was the crack!!! Next I rebuilt a 360 in a dodge truck, pnp heads, bigger cam, better springs, .030 over, higher compression, the works, once again I did all assembly and took it to a different shop for machine work, he messed up somehting little (don't remember what) but he stood behind it 100% and put a super warranty on an engine that I put together!! so as you can see I have had a few issues with machine shops, I am currently rebuilding my lt1, and I am having my buddy do all the machine work on it! he actually went to a local tech school, and is doing the work there, and I have more faith in his work than the others!!!!
Engines are not that hard to rebuild, but you have to be meticulous, I am very meticulous and have some killer OCD which when it comes to rebuilding an engine is super helpful!!! I hope your new engine comes out VERY well, with no issues!!!
01-24-2009, 12:36 AM
#40
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I know exactly what you mean with other people thinking just a stock car with some exhaust. That's my mantra...until the stall converter hits about 4 grand. Wolf in sheep's clothing.
It's amazing who you can sneak up on in a stock looking LT1 formula with ZR1's and tips being the only clue to what's goin on.
Oh, and do you just tell them that whistle is a bad accessory belt? That's what I'd do when I'd drive the buddy's car with the Vortech blower.
It's amazing who you can sneak up on in a stock looking LT1 formula with ZR1's and tips being the only clue to what's goin on.
Oh, and do you just tell them that whistle is a bad accessory belt? That's what I'd do when I'd drive the buddy's car with the Vortech blower.