cam only
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 176
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From: Winchester, Va
cam only okay i may have just gotten a second job, so i can get some stuff for the firebird, so far ive got, headers, ory, cutout, cheap homemade short ram intake, air foil, and shift kit, i think im buying a hypertech programmer on friday. heres the question, how would this car run with a cam only setup, if i added a throttle body, mass air, and a good cold air, and what kind of cam should i run, like durations, and lift. i may also put a 100 shot on it.
With stock heads and internals/bottom end an off the shelf is a good choice as they have proven results - like the CC306 or GM847 (streching it). Also if you want your car to be emissions legal these cams are not for you only if your area requires it. Lastly, stay away from the programmer as for about half the price you can have a custom tune done my PCMforless.com and they will tune way more than the hypertech can touch. Just visit their website for more info as they have helped hundreds of people here. Good luck and do a search you will find lots of good info on these cams.
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
From: richmond, KY
please dont waist your money on a maf. just the stock one. pcmforless were ranked like 2nd in the world for mail in tune so dont buy hypercrap (been there done that). lt4 hotcam kit is great for stock.
no on hypertech
no on maf
do you have emissions? if so cc503 is a perfect candidate, though custom cam from LE would be my first choice unless u find a good deal on a used cc503
no on maf
do you have emissions? if so cc503 is a perfect candidate, though custom cam from LE would be my first choice unless u find a good deal on a used cc503
A custom cam would be well worth it. Lloyd Elliott or AI would be a good choice. You should be careful with size though because the stock bottom end won't handle high rpm forever. In my opinion an 847 may be a little big. Some people do it with stock heads but your low end power will suffer. Something along the lines of a cc503 would be a great dd cam that will do you fine along with some good valvesprings. If you are doing a cam I would add some 1.6 rr non self aligning with some good pushrods and guideplates to handle the rpm. The stock stuff isn't really meant for much more than stock although some have gotten away with it. A bunch of guys are making 350rwhp with the 503 and supporting mods. Definately no on the hypertech. You can get a good mail order tune for far less. A MAF would be a waste of money too. Also the stock throttle body with airfoil can support more than 400 hp so with a cam only it's not something I would spend the money on. Hope this helps.
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If I was set on off the shelf it would be the CC503 from what I've read.
The 226.234 from AI seems like a better choice. They say it has the same driveability with more power and a better powerband.
The 226.234 from AI seems like a better choice. They say it has the same driveability with more power and a better powerband.
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On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
From: Winchester, Va
wow lots of responses and help thanks guys, well i think ive decided that i wont get the tuner, i can probly take that cash and get a cam or rockers for it, with a good cam for stock internals is a bottle a bad idea, im planning on running a 100 shot.
12 Second Club
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 593
Likes: 0
From: Portage Pa.
You should be able to run a 100 shot no problem..
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,419
Likes: 1
From: Holland Twp/Milford, New Jersey
Remember to get new springs and pushrods with that new cam. I don't recommend the cc306. It's based off of very old technology. Granted it makes good power, but now-a-days there are better off-the-shelf options. Here's a quote from another forum:
The CC306 cam is ground on technology that is over 20 years old. The CC306 is effectively all bark and no bite. There are much, much better cams available for LT1's that will provide much more power, much better idle characteristics, and better overall driveability.
The CC306 is listed as 230/244 @ .050", .510"/.540", 112 LSA. With that much spit in the duration and that little of lift, the CC306 is a very choppy cam that is very soft down low. The nose radius and flank rates of this cam are also off in relation to the LSA and lift. In addition with a 244 exhaust valve duration and .540" of exhaust valve lift on a 112 LSA, you are going to have a significant overlap without the effective intake or exhaust lift to support it or the intake duration to support it.
But lets look at this in even more deatail.
There are a few ways to calculate degrees of overlap. I will use the advertised duration and lobe separation angle method since I do not know offhand the specific IVO or the EVC timing of the CC306 camshaft.
First you add the advertised intake and exhaust duration together. Then you divide that sum by 4. Then subtract the LSA. Then multiply that by 2.
290+307 = 597
597/4 = 149.25
149.25-112 = 37.25
37.25 * 2 = 74.5
So the total valve overlap is approximately 74.5°. Like mentioned above, the profile of this cam cannot effectively support the overlap. Thus you end up with a rough cam that doesn't make really good power for what it is.
The CC306 is listed as 230/244 @ .050", .510"/.540", 112 LSA. With that much spit in the duration and that little of lift, the CC306 is a very choppy cam that is very soft down low. The nose radius and flank rates of this cam are also off in relation to the LSA and lift. In addition with a 244 exhaust valve duration and .540" of exhaust valve lift on a 112 LSA, you are going to have a significant overlap without the effective intake or exhaust lift to support it or the intake duration to support it.
But lets look at this in even more deatail.
There are a few ways to calculate degrees of overlap. I will use the advertised duration and lobe separation angle method since I do not know offhand the specific IVO or the EVC timing of the CC306 camshaft.
First you add the advertised intake and exhaust duration together. Then you divide that sum by 4. Then subtract the LSA. Then multiply that by 2.
290+307 = 597
597/4 = 149.25
149.25-112 = 37.25
37.25 * 2 = 74.5
So the total valve overlap is approximately 74.5°. Like mentioned above, the profile of this cam cannot effectively support the overlap. Thus you end up with a rough cam that doesn't make really good power for what it is.
LOL - Didn't even see the MAF. X3 on no maf as the stock maf is the best way to go. Tons of tuners also swear buy it and say the Graneilli is crap and way difficult to tune with. Lastly, make sure you save money in your budget for a tune either dyno or mail order from PCMforless as this will greatly optimize your setup.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,419
Likes: 1
From: Holland Twp/Milford, New Jersey
On The Tree
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 125
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From: Metairie, La.
I'm finishing up my cam install Saturday. I went with a custom LE non-emissions cam. 226/234 565/565 109LSA You will get excellent support with Lloyd. I've been running a 125 shot for a while. I plan to keep spraying it with the new cam. Maybe this will help also.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...lp-needed.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...lp-needed.html
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
From: Winchester, Va
im looking up specs and it looks like the comp cam cc503 is not the same specs as listed in the "stock head cam/cam swap guide" unless im looking at the wrong thing, any ideas, i would like to get the most power out of the stock heads, i will put in roller rockers, and probly behive springs.
im looking up specs and it looks like the comp cam cc503 is not the same specs as listed in the "stock head cam/cam swap guide" unless im looking at the wrong thing, any ideas, i would like to get the most power out of the stock heads, i will put in roller rockers, and probly behive springs.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
From: Winchester, Va
okay gotcha, i didnt know that 1.6 rockers raised lift. so if i got the cc503 cam, a set of roller mechanical lifters, roller rockers, 100 shot, 3200 stall, and 3.73s, could i be in the 11s? maybe low 11's?