Best DD Heads for 383
04-25-2009, 06:26 AM
#21
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No one said the flow numbers necessarily translate to practical performance, and Advanced Induction flowed the DART 180's (@ an 4.030 bore) and actually flowed better than what DART posted up on their site.
04-25-2009, 07:29 AM
#22
X2 and they are having specials on the LT1 stuff...I run their heads and would use them again...Manley severe duty 2.00/1.56 valves, double springs, and titanium retainers are standard...They use a repeatable CNC program and then can work them by hand for a few extra $$...
--Alan
--Alan
04-25-2009, 08:40 AM
#23
Those pushing Dart, how have they worked IN ACTUAL PRACTICE?
Point being the OP should ignore input from the bench racers.
Many aftermarket companies publish flow number on a 4.125 bore because that is a standard gen 1 400 block bore and the LT1 heads are very heavily based on the gen 1 castings they already make so they are just transfering the information rather than taking the time and effort to do things a little more right.
Now there are some LT1 head shops that flow on a 4.060 bore, I will leave it up to you to decide why someone would do that.
Point being the OP should ignore input from the bench racers.
Many aftermarket companies publish flow number on a 4.125 bore because that is a standard gen 1 400 block bore and the LT1 heads are very heavily based on the gen 1 castings they already make so they are just transfering the information rather than taking the time and effort to do things a little more right.
Now there are some LT1 head shops that flow on a 4.060 bore, I will leave it up to you to decide why someone would do that.
04-25-2009, 10:49 AM
#24
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Thanks for the info guys. Sadly I've ran into something else to worry about for the time being. My damper came off a couple weeks ago and I finally had time to have the damper put back on yesterday. I figured it would just go right on with no problems. Unfortunately the crank snout got chewed up and was ruined. I'm pretty pissed and my engine builder will definitely have a talking to. I only had 1700 miles on this motor. I can definitely say this car has taken my patience to the brink on more than one occassion. Well thats my horror story for the day! 
04-25-2009, 12:10 PM
#25
Why would head PORT size have ANY effect on how it drives daily????????????I.E LE1/2/3, Ai 190/200CC.
I could put a hydraulic cam in my car and daily drive it. If you knew the port size you would crap your pants.Power peaks at 6800rpm.
I have driven it MANY time 50 miles round trip to work on nice days.
Pick a CAMSHAFT you can live with on a daily basis, then put the heads on to compliment it.
I could put a hydraulic cam in my car and daily drive it. If you knew the port size you would crap your pants.Power peaks at 6800rpm.
I have driven it MANY time 50 miles round trip to work on nice days.
Pick a CAMSHAFT you can live with on a daily basis, then put the heads on to compliment it.
04-25-2009, 12:16 PM
#26
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Why would head PORT size have ANY effect on how it drives daily????????????I.E LE1/2/3, Ai 190/200CC.
I could put a hydraulic cam in my car and daily drive it. If you knew the port size you would crap your pants.Power peaks at 6800rpm.
I have driven it MANY time 50 miles round trip to work on nice days.
Pick a CAMSHAFT you can live with on a daily basis, then put the heads on to compliment it.
I could put a hydraulic cam in my car and daily drive it. If you knew the port size you would crap your pants.Power peaks at 6800rpm.
I have driven it MANY time 50 miles round trip to work on nice days.
Pick a CAMSHAFT you can live with on a daily basis, then put the heads on to compliment it.
lol I wasn't necessarily responding to what head would be good for daily driving, I was just recommending the DART heads in general because I have them and have had great luck with them. Intake port size has nothing to do with driveability to an extent. I guess the OP meant to ask what head would be an overall good performing head for someone not looking for a crazy setup, and is on a budget - hence the DART recommendation.
04-25-2009, 01:26 PM
#27
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If you are building a DD 383 there is no reason to buy a set of aftermarket heads. It would be a waste of money.
Ported stock heads more than capable of moving enough air for a 383. I would only go with a aftermarket head if your building a race/hi hp setup.
AI's 200cc and LE's le3's flow 280 ish @600, why spend another $900-1200 for 300's if your not throwing a huge cam in there to take advantage of the extra air flow.
Ported stock heads more than capable of moving enough air for a 383. I would only go with a aftermarket head if your building a race/hi hp setup.
AI's 200cc and LE's le3's flow 280 ish @600, why spend another $900-1200 for 300's if your not throwing a huge cam in there to take advantage of the extra air flow.
04-25-2009, 03:04 PM
#28
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If you are building a DD 383 there is no reason to buy a set of aftermarket heads. It would be a waste of money.
Ported stock heads more than capable of moving enough air for a 383. I would only go with a aftermarket head if your building a race/hi hp setup.
AI's 200cc and LE's le3's flow 280 ish @600, why spend another $900-1200 for 300's if your not throwing a huge cam in there to take advantage of the extra air flow.
Ported stock heads more than capable of moving enough air for a 383. I would only go with a aftermarket head if your building a race/hi hp setup.
AI's 200cc and LE's le3's flow 280 ish @600, why spend another $900-1200 for 300's if your not throwing a huge cam in there to take advantage of the extra air flow.
04-25-2009, 04:43 PM
#29
But why not just buy aftermarket heads that cost the same as ported stockers and flow as much as ported stockers (example: DART 200's relatively = LE2 stockers in flow). And again, they are about the same in price. But in the end it's all up on the OP and what his plans are. If it were me I would get some DARTs AND get Lloyd to work his magic on them.
Like stated though, choose the cam based on drivability concerns, not the heads. Properly ported "big" heads will make great power on both a 396 stroker or a little 355 rebuild...its the badly ported hogged out heads that drop velocity too much and cause problems on small cube builds. Stick with real professionals and not local general mechanics who THINK they know performance and you will be fine.
04-25-2009, 05:49 PM
#30
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P.S. Just remembered something... The term "area under the curve" is not some trendy saying. It's been around for many years.
04-26-2009, 11:49 AM
#31
Really? I got a 245cc port, I make 400lb feet of torque by 3200 rpm, I PEAK at 4200 rpm(436 lb feet) and carry it flat to almost 5000 rpm. Through a Detroit lockered 9 inch, 4.11 gear and a 4L60E. My "area under the curve" is quite good with a head thats "too big", drives very nice on the street.
"Area under the curve" HAS become internet "lingo". It is more reguritated BS found on the net. Higher "VE" at low rpms is needed by carb applications....for a good low speed "signal". EFI Applications dont have to adhere by these rules.
If your VE peaks earlier in the rpm band, your heads are too small. Unless you have a VERY good head...and I mean VERY good, that can carry that velocity in the upper rpm and not get turbulent.98% of heads cant.The right Cam and a good tuner helps the bigger head at low rpms, You got to spin the Snot out of a smaller head to make power.
Its all about AVERAGE flow, not peak numbers, not low lift numbers, not "area under the curve".....AVERAGE FLOW.
Car "A" with more AVERAGE RWHP, will always outrun car "B" with more PEAK RWHP. Assuming the cars are the same weight. How do you get more "AVERAGE RWHP"? More AVERAGE CFM on the head.
You guys look at flow numbers WAY too much, the flow bench is NOT a running engine. The head will not flow on the engine like it does on a flowbench.
Look at ABA383 on this board, old school Lingenfelter heads with a small cam. I bet money they dont flow over 260-270 on the intake...he runs 11.30's.
Bigger head with a smaller cam makes more average power than a smaller head with a bigger cam. Especially in a street/strip application.
Now a full blown Comp eliminator car.....different story.
My .02, disclaimer applies here
04-26-2009, 12:01 PM
#32
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Exactly what I am saying. A smaller port equates to a VE which increases earlier in the RPM band. VE has a hell of a lot more to do with port velocity which involves "AVERAGE flow" much more than peak flow numbers. I have not mentioned peak flow numbers at all.
I too have "old school" LPE ported heads on my SR 396. The car weighs 3750lbs. It has a shitty 3.73 gear in it and I can putt around a parking lot in 2nd gear at 1200rpm w/ no surge. Power peaks at 6800rpm and starts a gentle decline until 7200rpm at cutoff. With the shitty gear ratio has ran close to 121mph in the 1/4. I put a cylinder head with larger runners then it will change up the torque peak and area under the curve and even with the cam profile I am running, could probably wind the engine up to 7500rpm or beyond. The heads I am running are indeed too small for the engine. They have no business being on the engine, but they make the engine behave like it contains a stock power band. It's just as simple as that.
BTW... a few things to consider- Your torque converter, your gears, your displacement, having a SR are great advantages to drivablity with the size cylinder head you mentioned.
I too have "old school" LPE ported heads on my SR 396. The car weighs 3750lbs. It has a shitty 3.73 gear in it and I can putt around a parking lot in 2nd gear at 1200rpm w/ no surge. Power peaks at 6800rpm and starts a gentle decline until 7200rpm at cutoff. With the shitty gear ratio has ran close to 121mph in the 1/4. I put a cylinder head with larger runners then it will change up the torque peak and area under the curve and even with the cam profile I am running, could probably wind the engine up to 7500rpm or beyond. The heads I am running are indeed too small for the engine. They have no business being on the engine, but they make the engine behave like it contains a stock power band. It's just as simple as that.
BTW... a few things to consider- Your torque converter, your gears, your displacement, having a SR are great advantages to drivablity with the size cylinder head you mentioned.
04-26-2009, 04:33 PM
#33
Really? I got a 245cc port, I make 400lb feet of torque by 3200 rpm, I PEAK at 4200 rpm(436 lb feet) and carry it flat to almost 5000 rpm. Through a Detroit lockered 9 inch, 4.11 gear and a 4L60E. My "area under the curve" is quite good with a head thats "too big", drives very nice on the street.
"Area under the curve" HAS become internet "lingo". It is more reguritated BS found on the net. Higher "VE" at low rpms is needed by carb applications....for a good low speed "signal". EFI Applications dont have to adhere by these rules.
If your VE peaks earlier in the rpm band, your heads are too small. Unless you have a VERY good head...and I mean VERY good, that can carry that velocity in the upper rpm and not get turbulent.98% of heads cant.The right Cam and a good tuner helps the bigger head at low rpms, You got to spin the Snot out of a smaller head to make power.
Its all about AVERAGE flow, not peak numbers, not low lift numbers, not "area under the curve".....AVERAGE FLOW.
Car "A" with more AVERAGE RWHP, will always outrun car "B" with more PEAK RWHP. Assuming the cars are the same weight. How do you get more "AVERAGE RWHP"? More AVERAGE CFM on the head.
You guys look at flow numbers WAY too much, the flow bench is NOT a running engine. The head will not flow on the engine like it does on a flowbench.
Look at ABA383 on this board, old school Lingenfelter heads with a small cam. I bet money they dont flow over 260-270 on the intake...he runs 11.30's.
Bigger head with a smaller cam makes more average power than a smaller head with a bigger cam. Especially in a street/strip application.
Now a full blown Comp eliminator car.....different story.
My .02, disclaimer applies here
"Area under the curve" HAS become internet "lingo". It is more reguritated BS found on the net. Higher "VE" at low rpms is needed by carb applications....for a good low speed "signal". EFI Applications dont have to adhere by these rules.
If your VE peaks earlier in the rpm band, your heads are too small. Unless you have a VERY good head...and I mean VERY good, that can carry that velocity in the upper rpm and not get turbulent.98% of heads cant.The right Cam and a good tuner helps the bigger head at low rpms, You got to spin the Snot out of a smaller head to make power.
Its all about AVERAGE flow, not peak numbers, not low lift numbers, not "area under the curve".....AVERAGE FLOW.
Car "A" with more AVERAGE RWHP, will always outrun car "B" with more PEAK RWHP. Assuming the cars are the same weight. How do you get more "AVERAGE RWHP"? More AVERAGE CFM on the head.
You guys look at flow numbers WAY too much, the flow bench is NOT a running engine. The head will not flow on the engine like it does on a flowbench.
Look at ABA383 on this board, old school Lingenfelter heads with a small cam. I bet money they dont flow over 260-270 on the intake...he runs 11.30's.
Bigger head with a smaller cam makes more average power than a smaller head with a bigger cam. Especially in a street/strip application.
Now a full blown Comp eliminator car.....different story.
My .02, disclaimer applies here
--Alan
04-26-2009, 04:50 PM
#34
But why not just buy aftermarket heads that cost the same as ported stockers and flow as much as ported stockers (example: DART 200's relatively = LE2 stockers in flow). And again, they are about the same in price. But in the end it's all up on the OP and what his plans are. If it were me I would get some DARTs AND get Lloyd to work his magic on them.
04-26-2009, 11:41 PM
#35
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Flow numbers are just that, flow numbers. There are alot of other important factors so comparing just flow numbers is silly. The LE2's or Ai 200cc's will outperform those Dart's out of the box. I heard numbers before but do not recall them, want to say 10-20hp? Now those Darts ported are better than ported stock castings but ported Dart's will hardly have an advantage over say LE2's on a stock bottom end 350 hitting 6400rpms. Now on a high revving 355 or stroker then hell yes ported Dart's or TFS's would start to shine over stock ported castings.
