Hey guys,

I felt this deserved it's own thread because it's such an important find. I've been meaning to post this up but now I finally have pics of before and after.

The individual set of headers are *NOT* I repeat *NOT* the problem with clearance issues!

And now you all sit there going "OK, let's hear it..."

And here's the proof:

1st time I installed the headers:



Note that there's TONS of clearance - over an inch - from the headers to the k-frame. The clearance remained when we bolted the k-frame/engine/trans/exhaust into the car.



80 miles later, I spun two bearings, had to drop the engine back out, tear down, and reinstall. But, that's not the point...

I now offer you pictures from the 2nd time the headers were installed, in car pictures (please don't mind how dirty they are):






I have less than 1/8th inch of clearance - on the passenger side it's almost resting right on the k-frame's pinch weld.

Now, I do not know yet what it was that caused this to happen this time around. But, I believe it has everything to do with the rest of the exhaust setup. I had a really difficult time installing the y-pipe because the my y-pipe was welded to the intermediate pipe so I had to disconnect the intermediate pipe just before it goes up and over the axle to the muffler. Unfortunately, I didn't pay attention when the k-frame was out of the car or before putting the y-pipe on... I had such awesome clearance the 1st time that I didn't even think to look after the 2nd install.

I did notice that as I adjusted my y-pipe/intermediate pipe into the pipe that goes to the muffler that my tailpipes significantly adjusted their angle and I have a feeling that this same adjustment is going to significantly affect the clearance of the primaries to the k-frame.

If it's not this, it has to be something else. It's a SIGNIFICANT difference between the first install and the second install. I have a feeling that whatever caused the difference in my case is the same exact reason why there's such a fluctuation of reports on some people who have no problems and others who have a horrible experience with fitment.

My exhaust is currently rattling like a sunovabitch - I think it's hitting the panhard bar and/or axle. But in any case, when I go under the car to fix it I'll definitely update with my findings.

 

Just like we first thought every car is different and if you change anything on your car it can end up different!!! Thank for posting proof & Pics!!!!!!!

 

also poly mounts will settle in the shells with the weight of the motor and vibrations. once they settle they wont move anymore. i had to go back and take the driver side out and cut on the k member i started to get rubbing on it after about 100miles.

 

Well - not so much that, but the point is that something in the installation of the headers and y-pipe can significantly change the headers' clearance. This is the same set of headers with the same car... the only unknown variable here is that the k-frame was removed, engine was rebuilt, put back in, and k-frame rebolted up to the body. Otherwise, everything's the same but there's a significant difference between the first time we installed the headers and the 2nd time.

 

Mine are hitting on the k-member and for whatever reason the header is leaking pretty significantly on the middle two primarys right at the top of the flange. My bolts are tight...maybe too tight. I can't figure out the leak unless the header hitting the kmember is keeping it from having a solid flat seal against the gasket/head.

 

My bolts are tight too - and were tight the first time. I haven't had a chance to get under the car yet but I really think the exhaust system and/or the angle of the engine and transmission is going to play a large role in the clearance of the headers.

 

The condition of the motor mounts play in to it as well when you do a long tube swap, worn mounts can very well cause all sorts of fitment issues and headers hitting the K. The only they are good for is six speed swaps because the amount they let the trans hang down makes it perfect for getting at the top bell housing bolts.

 

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that once heated and cooled the headers will move and settle into place, specially if there is an exhaust hanging on the back of them.

 

When you rebuilt the engine, did you keep the same cylinder heads?

Different heads have different angles on the exhaust banks, causing your headers to mount at a different angle when you install them to the new heads. A small * angle difference at the head can equal a noticable difference all the way down by the flanges.

I have run 3 different sets of heads on my '94... all with the same exhaust, and the exhaust has fit on the car differently every time I changed the heads. Especially when gauging where the collector flanges end up.

 

Motor mounts are relatively new polyurethane mounts. I say 'relatively' because they were brand new the 1st install, 80 miles on them for the 2nd install.

Same heads.

The only variables we have are engine & transmission angle, role of the y-pipe and exhaust pulling down on them, and the motor mounts possibly being more forgiving with only 80 miles on them. Otherwise, it's the same exact setup but a huge difference in fitment.


BUT - the main point of my thread was that I highly doubt everyone having issues with the LPP headers is a quality control issue since they're made on the same jig - I think these fluctuations are the result of whatever is causing my fitment issue.

 

Mine hit the K-member from day one (never heated) and my OEM rubber mounts were less than 2 years old. I cant explain the differences shown above though, thats odd. I still had to hack on the k-member to ensure there was no contact.

Clearly worn engine mounts play a roll.

Now in order to get the best drive line angles with my 9" rearend, I raised the tranny 1/2" up off the tranny cross member with square washers. This gave me additional right side collector clearance where in the area of the k-member. This is another way to improve the clearance with this problem area.

 

Mine leaked like a SOB when I first put them in and they were hitting the k member. I took them out and ground the **** out of the K member and notched it and not only did it fix the leaking problem, but no more rattling. I would guess that is your problem.

Every car is different no matter what anyone says. Some people had great luck with these and some didn't. I had a few small problems with them not clearing but they were easily fixed. Now that I have a tubular K member sitting in my apt, I'm sure the clearance will be even better with taht in the car.

Everyone jumped on the bandwagon to buy a set when they saw the price, then they all jumped on the bandwagon to bash them when they didn't fit. What some people don't realize is that Kooks, Pacesetter, and just about every other header out there will have horror stories about fitiment issues if you search long enough. But since these headers were in the spotlight, they got bashed more than any other brand.

I think most people were just mad because they spent 1300 on their Kooks setup, or 600 on their Pacesetter when they could have a STAINLESS header for the same price, or half that in the case of the Kooks nutswingers.

I'll stand by them any day of the week and twice on Sundays. I picked up power with these over my Hookers and I can't complain about the stainless either.

LPP's FTMFW

 

i love mine from day one.

 

also dont forget it hit on the frame where the ps abs cables are as well keeping it for having a tight fit on the heads...trust me its my fifth time taking them down

 

i say when you installed the headers first time and the headers were in their original shape, there was 1 inch of clearance. second time maybe when your engine spun 2 bearing some kind of engine vibration or big bad engine move when the bearings spun, that engine move (i mean some thing wrong happened to your car) twisted or bent the headers in some way or something else in the car and that made less than 1/8th inch of clearance.

 

Hmm, I don't think I have that problem... actually I'm almost positive I don't have that problem. I have a totally rebuilt LT1 in a v6 car though so the routing of my cables might be different than factory location.

... What? Do you know what spun bearings is? Not meaning to be rude but that's so far fetched I can't even fathom how a spun bearing could twist or bend the headers.. it has absolutely nothing to do with the headers. When the bearings spun it's down in the crankshaft journals and had absolutely no impact to the exterior of the engine... at that, the only way you can tell that you spun a bearing is from hearing a knock or seeing the metal shavings in the oil... we had no audible knock just shavings. What I mean is that it's not something you can visually look at the engine while it's sitting there in the engine bay and go 'yup, it spun a bearing.'

 

Im here to tell ya aint no way the headers got bent. I tried to bend mine to solve the clearance issue and simply pissed in the wind. They are strong as Hell.

One other way the can shift is up and down due to tolerances in the bolt holes where they bolt to the head. I could shift mine up and down a good 3/4" measured at the collector. This can buy a little of room where it comes close to K-member.

 

im telling you its motor mounts finally moved in the mount to where they are going to stay. when you put the poly in the shell and bolt i up it looks like it wont move but with the heat, the engine weight, and vibrations the motor mounts will settle making the motor sit alittle lower. it did on mine and my buddys 97 ss. once they settle they wont move down any further.

 

I am going to second the poly motor mount theory. I noticed the same type of issue when I switched to poly mounts, that the clearanced had changed. goldmecham is right.

 

The motor mount theory sounds pretty good. I just had my engine out and gave it some pacesetter lt's and poly engine and tranny mounts, I kept an eye on k clearance as i put some miles on it. The gap did shrink considerably but stopped with good clearance left. Although I dident start with as much or end with so little as you did op. Thats kinda crazy