powerhousecamaro

iTrader: (11)

I don't think that the coil is putting any power, so problem is happening before (Maybe). Here's the info the I just read :

The opti has two functions in the spark process. The first thing that happens is as the cam turns, the optical section of the optispark picks up the signals by the rotation of the shutter wheel. The pulses are sent to the PCM via the optispark electrical harness. The PCM processes the signals along with other sensor input and determines the proper time for the coil to fire. The PCM sends a signal to the Ignition Control Module (ICM) and it, in turn, causes the coil to fire. The spark from the coil travels through the coil wire back to the secondary ignition section of the optispark (cap and rotor), to be distributed to the proper cylinder.

If the opti is never sending the signal to the PCM, the PCM will never send a signal to fire the coil.

I checked the battery ground and the coil ground so far, Computer was replaced, as well as coil, ECM, Coil wire, Opti spark, plugs have less than 800 miles on them.

Thanks for the comment brother.

Turbohawk383

crank sensor yet?

powerhousecamaro

iTrader: (11)

Yup, replaced it yesterday and it didn't do it

powerhousecamaro

iTrader: (11)

Car sounds EXACTLY the same as if coil wire is pluged or UNPLUGED from opti.

powerhousecamaro

iTrader: (11)

what should be the compression numbers, I'll run a compression check as well today.

kenscivic

iTrader: (1)

honestly I do not know for these cars, i'd imagine with a cam they all should be around 160..

as long as there isnt like a 15-20 psi difference b/t cylinders you are good.

powerhousecamaro

iTrader: (11)

Ok Guys, problem is happening between the ICM and the COIL. Seems like both are causing each other to go bad !!!
Here's what I found/Happened today:

Started with fuel, checked fuel pressure at the shreader valve, guage showed 56 psi (I'm supercharged with aftermarket fuel pump, is that why it's way more than the normal LT1 43 psi?). Plenty of fuel pressure so....

Next , I used a noid light and pluged it into the injectors connectors, found no problem with the optical sensor.

Next, I found that the pink wire at the ICM connector is hot, however, the dark green wire IS NOT hot (Which should be). I started moving it back and forth and my test light flashed few times, so I was NOT getting power to the ICM, I kept moving the wire until I had HOT at all times, connected the harness back into the ICM and guess what, car STARTED.

Now, at that point I had the other oem opti on the car, which replaced the MSD one that was on it and I thought it was bad, so when car started I was positive that the ICM simply had a pinched wire and I fixed it, so I put the MSD opti back on and car went back to exactly what it was doing before not starting , however, I still had HOT on the wire that I didn't before. So ICM connector has two hot wires and one ground wire, working, no problem with that connector.

Next , I went to check coil connector and here's what's up :
Checked for pulsing ground dark green wire at the coil coming from the ICM, there's NO pulsing ground !!! Books indicate that this is caused because of a BAD ICM ?!!! But I just replaced the damn ICM and car started fine before !!!

Next , I checked for hot at the pink wire on the same connector, I do have HOT. Following the link that a fellow member gave me in the first page of this post , it says that if that wire is HOT , COIL need to be replaced !!!!??? But I just replaced it and car started fine ...WTF.
Following that link it says that BAD COIL BURN UP ICMs, I think I'm having a problem to cause the coil go bad and then burn the ICM or vise versa....

Most important thing is that the coil connector is not showing what it should, there's no ground (Which I need) and there's a hot on the pink wire which that link says I SHOULD NOT have.

Then, I simply got a ground wire connected from a ground cable to the green coil wire on the coil connector, what happened ? : It BURNT the 10 amp fuse in the fuse box under the hood.

I should have kept the oem opti on it and move on, but I don't know if car would have done the same and it would start again. Problem is difinately happening between icm and coil , correcrt me if you think I'm wrong.

At that point it got dark and I went home .

Adam

shbox

Pinched, intermittent open wiring or bad connections at the coil or ICM is what it sounds like to me.

powerhousecamaro

iTrader: (11)

Thanks a lot. Hmmm, should I just unwrap the whole wiring harness and see what's up or how would you do it? Or maybe just follow the wires from Coil/ICM all the way to the PCM ?

shbox

The fact that you moved things around right there and it started seems to indicate a good place to start.

powerhousecamaro

iTrader: (11)

Thanks, I'm just going to replace the whole damn harness from the donnor car and see what's up then.

the_merv

iTrader: (88)

Wiring is a pain in the ***..expecially when it's stuff like this.

powerhousecamaro

iTrader: (11)

Here's one of the procedures I had to do following the link in the first page in this thread :


"Next we will see if the coil and ICM are causing the no spark.

First on the ICM connector with KOEO check for hot (96-97) on the Pink and Dark green wires. Do you have hot? YES (In which I didn't before and I think that that's what caused it not to start before, but now I do).

Yes, next step

Next check for ground on the black wire. do you have ground? YES

Yes, next step

Next test for a pulsing ground at the dark green wire(96-97) or the White/black wire (93-95) at the coil coming from the ICM. Do you have a pulsing ground? NO

Yes, next step
No Replace the ICM *note, I have seen a bad coil burn up an ICM. It might be a good time to replace or upgrade your coil* (But I did replace the ICM few times )


next with your test light check for hot on the Pink wire at the coil. do you have hot? YES

Yes, Replace your coil *note, High resistance from bad plug wires can burn out coils. You can Ohm test plug wires or replace them if wanted*

No, Check and repair ign fuse and retest".

Note guys, the last part of this test is showing that if I have HOT at the coil connector, the COIL needs to be replaced !!!!??????? And if I DON'T then it's asking to "CHECK AND REPAIR IGN FUSE" ??!!!!! Does that sound right? According to this, if I have HOT I have to replace something and if I DON'T I still have to replace something ? Is it a mistake in these directions?

I know it's getting real frustrating even for you guys here, any more comments will be really appreciated, I know it's getting a little complicated .

Adam

crookedbowtie

I hope you guys figure this out. I went through no start problems in the beginning of my swap. I FEEL your pain! Especially since I have had a bad MSD opti before.

Please check your harness connectors before you go any further. I have broke down (one costing $180 for a tow) twice ( the other I had a spare and fixed on the road yesterday) in the last week because the spring part of the female connectors in the weatherpacks lost there springiness, one being on the ICM weatherpack and one on the MAF weatherpack. Both took the motor from running great to a studder at highway speeds and then to nothing...dead. Even if you bend them back and they look okay...don't be fooled, they will return to their unsprung position. Each time that I replaced one it ran great, but mine have been off and on so many times that they are all just taking turns giving up. God damned frustrating You may even make it a few miles or get a start and a die. I just got on it hard today in the rain and the motor died again, coasted home and am waiting for a ride to get a code reader to see (hopefully) which weatherpack it is now. I am hoping it is just another connector, I am leaning on the opti coupler. even if you tet the wire for continuity from start to end it doesn't mean that it is making a solid connection (especially in these low voltage circuits and it doesn't take much for failure) between the two weatherpack pieces. I will tell you that these acted like your problems and seemed like a bad part, but it was just female weatherpack connectors. I will carry spares for every single one now!

powerhousecamaro

iTrader: (11)

Thanks so much for your comment. What exactly is the connector "Weatherpack" ?
I will follow your suggestion and replace both coil and ICM connectors tomorrow, yeah that connector at the ICM didn't have a hot wire until I moved it a little, I still have it now but like you said, it might go bad again and car will die again.

Thanks again.

crookedbowtie

By weatherpack I mean the connector that has the female connections in it and attaches your harness to your ICM, MAF, etc. Usually has more than on wire in it. It has rubber grommets in the back and a rubber seal that goes into your ICM, MAF etc to protect it from the weather, water etc. You can order replacements from Napa Auto parts that have the female connectors in them. Then you just cut off the old one and use but connectors and shrink wrap to replace the whole thing. You may be a able to buy just the female pin connectors, dissect the plug and replace just those pieces, but I have yet to find a source plus by replacing the whole plug you get new grommets and a "tighter" connection. These can act like a bad ground or a sensor going out and give you intermittent sensor problems, really hard to trace, but if your sensors test good , wires test good, the problems comes and goes, is intermittent, or came out of nowhere they could be the culprit. Napa Echlin Part #EC111 for the MAF weatherpack $30 ( At least for my 96') and TPC22 for the ICM weatherpack $20. Start with your ICM, Coil, and opti weatherpacks, one at a time with the most likely offender first, if it is a no spark issue and everything else has been thoroughly checked. My dumb luck just happened to involve the MAF plug. Best of luck!

crookedbowtie

Oh, yeah and this goes for everyone if you question those weatherpacks replace them. They are not cheap, but neither is a tow home and the old bend it back trick usually mangles them and if it doesn't causes them to fail shortly after, maybe o miles, maybe 5 miles, but both times I couldn't make it home with that trick and not for lack of trying. I am a last resort tow truck caller and it sure will **** you off when you are calling for a simple fix, because the part is a special order and a 2 min. fix.

powerhousecamaro

iTrader: (11)

Thanks man.

CrimsonLT1

We sourced mine to a MAF and CTS code. even though they have been replaced, the code still exists, meaning, wiring issue for me as well. we're doign a re-wire on that portion of the harness, and see how she starts. We think it was in the tuning if you get my drift. Car was running fine from cold start, however, its rich as hell because it couldnt read right. 175 miles out of a full tank babying it.

Thats where were starting, and then checking oxygen sensors. I had codes to go by so hopefully this hits the nail on the head.

crookedbowtie

Yeah, pinched wire is also likely. Just use a multi meter and test for continuity using the ohms setting. I have pinched the pink wire going down to the opti or CPS sensor ( can't remember which or if it went between the two) between the water pump and the block. It caused a no start condition just like a failed opti. Replaced that section of wire and good to go. I have also had a bad TPS wire before that caused all sorts of problems. The wire looked fine, but tested bad with the milti meter. Replaced it and good to go. These motors have a very delicate electrical system and it seems that grounds, connectors and the wires them selfs always need to be checked first. Familar yourself with the wiring diagram and spend the time checking. It gets easier and faster the 2nd and 3rd time around. You actually end up knowing the problem for the exact symptom as well. Sometimes these wiring problems don't even thow codes. Even when you replce a part it may work for a while and have the problem agin because you jiggled the wire or connection during the install. You may be surprized to find a very simple fix that costs next to nothing.