Getting heads ported and polish???
08-13-2009, 08:44 PM
#22
I have 2 identical cars with everything such as parts and weight with the exact same specs, except 1 is Lloyd and the other is A.i.....guess what The A.I was and is faster but NOT by much at all.....This was after several tests and tunes, same day and time both cars even against one another and with me driving one after another within 5 mins of each pass.....the A.I was always faster especially on the top end, virtually identical times for the 60ft 330 and 1000 but 1/4 is faster by .6 and up to 2 mph, every time
08-13-2009, 09:18 PM
#25
You are just saying that because we have THREE guys in this thread who have owned both products all saying the AI was better.
Far as local porting, could ruin the heads or could be GREAT or anything in between, that is the best answer we can give you. Reputable has less to do with it than you might think. There are a LOT of reputable companies that get by on customer service without a truely good product. They could also be GREAT with some other applications but miss the boat on these particular castings. Find out if they can give you some local LT1 references.
08-13-2009, 09:28 PM
#26
You are just saying that because we have THREE guys in this thread who have owned both products all saying the AI was better.
Far as local porting, could ruin the heads or could be GREAT or anything in between, that is the best answer we can give you. Reputable has less to do with it than you might think. There are a LOT of reputable companies that get by on customer service without a truely good product. They could also be GREAT with some other applications but miss the boat on these particular castings. Find out if they can give you some local LT1 references.
Far as local porting, could ruin the heads or could be GREAT or anything in between, that is the best answer we can give you. Reputable has less to do with it than you might think. There are a LOT of reputable companies that get by on customer service without a truely good product. They could also be GREAT with some other applications but miss the boat on these particular castings. Find out if they can give you some local LT1 references.
" is going to attract and feed negative responses. Unfortunately some people don't want to do any searching or call "LE or AI" and get better reliable knowledge then over the internet...call both companies up, ask your questions/concerns and go with what you feel is the better choice. 
08-13-2009, 09:33 PM
#28
Its the same cast of characters that stir the **** pot and **** it up every time.
Why cant people stick to the topic and avoid the endorsements. Hell I did not take a side in post number two.
08-13-2009, 09:41 PM
#29
A flow bench is a tool that talls the head porter part of the story but, NOT the measurement of a heads worth. EVERY good honest head porter will tell you that.
They are however an effective marketting tool.
wrd1972, maybe these guys keep piping up about their experiance because they are pissed the community LIED to them and lead them to buy inferior products only to have problems and have to completely redo things. They want to save others the same expense and hassle.
You had problems yourself but instead of telling others to learn from your mistake you choose to lead others down the same path
.
08-13-2009, 10:02 PM
#30
wrd1972, maybe these guys keep piping up about their experiance because they are pissed the community LIED to them and lead them to buy inferior products only to have problems and have to completely redo things. They want to save others the same expense and hassle.
You had problems yourself but instead of telling others to learn from your mistake you choose to lead others down the same path.
You had problems yourself but instead of telling others to learn from your mistake you choose to lead others down the same path
.If that is so, I will just assume that the three in question are either naive "morons" or are simply part of the very small percentage of customers that fall into the "it just did not work out right" group. I am sure it is the later even though some handled the situation like total asses and there are posts on this board to prove it.
Yes I had a few problems as a result of a third party. Yes they were made right by the guy that took my money and then some. Yes I am a very satisfied customer.
Just because one or even three folks had issues with a certain guy does not automatically mean that the hundreds of others who do business with him will also. I will bet my *** that your guy has had a similar bad situation but was ultimately made right.
08-13-2009, 11:29 PM
#32
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I mean the OP wants to look at his goals right? He has options to whom to go to. It all depends on what he wants to do with his car. I've seen good end results from both products. I'm like alot of people, just wanting their cars go faster. Sure it'd be nice to get my car into the 11's or **** 12's if that. I''ll probably see the track maybe a handful of times. I didn't see it worth me spending that extra few hundred dollars since I didn't care much for the better numbers. But I will definitely give AI a shout if I ever intend to make the boat "faster". My .02
08-14-2009, 12:12 AM
#33
I mean the OP wants to look at his goals right? He has options to whom to go to. It all depends on what he wants to do with his car. I've seen good end results from both products. I'm like alot of people, just wanting their cars go faster. Sure it'd be nice to get my car into the 11's or **** 12's if that. I''ll probably see the track maybe a handful of times. I didn't see it worth me spending that extra few hundred dollars since I didn't care much for the better numbers. But I will definitely give AI a shout if I ever intend to make the boat "faster". My .02
08-14-2009, 01:12 AM
#36
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of course man. I am running out of time with the weather though. I'm afraid of reliability issues with my setup anyways. lol j/k. Been wanting to cruise with a group of bad *** lt1s.
08-14-2009, 09:02 AM
#39
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what im getting from all this is.... BE SURE you know who your dealing with when it comes to your head work. DONT go by someone elses opinion do to possible personal issues with one or another company. Be sure you and the person working on your car are fully aware of what you are wanting for a result. Am I getting it all?
08-15-2009, 04:13 PM
#40
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to the OP, just call the shops you are interested in (AI, Killians, etc) and see who you feel comfortable with.
.
Elliotts first set up was LE2 heads and a small 218/224 .544.544 111 LSA cam but before he installed the cam he decided to go a lil larger so he sent me the 218/224 cam and I got him a lil larger (but still small) 223/230 .565/.565 109 LSA cam at no charge.
He had someone else do the work (install heads, cam, etc) and ended up bending the intake valves and putting .040" deep grooves in the pistons from the intake valves crashing into them.
Cam was never degreed and piston to valve clearance was obviously never checked but the cam must have been 1 tooth off (advanced). The cam went into his buddies car and worked great so the cam was not the problem.
His heads were milled about .035" instead of the usual .010-.015". When milling the heads this extra amount, I always machine the valve job .020" deeper so you end up with the same piston to valve clearance as the regular milled head but with more compression.
To put .040" deep grooves in each piston, there had to be NEGATIVE .010-.020 piston to valve clearance. I would think you would notice the engine being hard to spin over as you rotated the engine and adjusted the valves since every intake valve was hitting the piston. That should have made some hideous noises as it was running also.
A simple clay test to check PTV clearance would have saved alot of time and $$$ while also alerting that the cam is not installed properly.
Elliott sent the heads to me and I did him another set for free but re-using his valves, springs, retainers, locks, etc. I did throw in 4 new intake valves for him (free of charge) since 4 were bent so severly that they would not spin out on the valve grinder. He wanted the new set to be milled a lil less and so they were milled just enough to make them flat. The valve job was also machined in the typical spot so these heads would have gave him an extra .010" in piston to valve clearance over the previous heads but still not enough to clear if the cam was off far enough to leave .040 deep grooves in the piston.
Elliott ended up selling this set of heads to another member on one of the forums before installing them.
His old heads were cleaned up and sold to a customer for a discount with all new part. He is running a 236/240 .592/.592 112 LSA cam on a stock bottom end using Mr Gasket 5716 head gaskets with no PTV clearance problems. This cam was degreed and installed properly though.
I believe Elliotts new AI set up has the cam installed correctly and PTV was probably checked also. I am sure he is happy with the way the car runs when set up properly.
Lloyd
.
Elliotts first set up was LE2 heads and a small 218/224 .544.544 111 LSA cam but before he installed the cam he decided to go a lil larger so he sent me the 218/224 cam and I got him a lil larger (but still small) 223/230 .565/.565 109 LSA cam at no charge.
He had someone else do the work (install heads, cam, etc) and ended up bending the intake valves and putting .040" deep grooves in the pistons from the intake valves crashing into them.
Cam was never degreed and piston to valve clearance was obviously never checked but the cam must have been 1 tooth off (advanced). The cam went into his buddies car and worked great so the cam was not the problem.
His heads were milled about .035" instead of the usual .010-.015". When milling the heads this extra amount, I always machine the valve job .020" deeper so you end up with the same piston to valve clearance as the regular milled head but with more compression.
To put .040" deep grooves in each piston, there had to be NEGATIVE .010-.020 piston to valve clearance. I would think you would notice the engine being hard to spin over as you rotated the engine and adjusted the valves since every intake valve was hitting the piston. That should have made some hideous noises as it was running also.
A simple clay test to check PTV clearance would have saved alot of time and $$$ while also alerting that the cam is not installed properly.
Elliott sent the heads to me and I did him another set for free but re-using his valves, springs, retainers, locks, etc. I did throw in 4 new intake valves for him (free of charge) since 4 were bent so severly that they would not spin out on the valve grinder. He wanted the new set to be milled a lil less and so they were milled just enough to make them flat. The valve job was also machined in the typical spot so these heads would have gave him an extra .010" in piston to valve clearance over the previous heads but still not enough to clear if the cam was off far enough to leave .040 deep grooves in the piston.
Elliott ended up selling this set of heads to another member on one of the forums before installing them.
His old heads were cleaned up and sold to a customer for a discount with all new part. He is running a 236/240 .592/.592 112 LSA cam on a stock bottom end using Mr Gasket 5716 head gaskets with no PTV clearance problems. This cam was degreed and installed properly though.
I believe Elliotts new AI set up has the cam installed correctly and PTV was probably checked also. I am sure he is happy with the way the car runs when set up properly.
Lloyd
Last edited by NightTrain66; 08-15-2009 at 05:30 PM.