tbag_skywalker

Anyone running a clutch with a kevlar friction plate?

I've had my Spec2 for about 1000 miles now and it slips like crazy. In fact, 1st gear is about the only gear where I can floor it without slippage, and I dont even wanna try power shifting. Is this normal?

I drove it normally for the 1st 500 miles and it hasn't changed since I passed the 500 mark. I went by the books when I installed this one- flywheel was resurfaced, new bearings, did the adjustable master cylinder conversion to get the engagement point right where it should be (though not necessary), even threw a new clutchfork in there that I probably didnt need.

The pedal feels normal and consistent. I've driven it a little harder as the miles have gone by since 500. I'm also trying not to beat on it too much because I dont want to burn, glaze, and warp the surfaces either.

So far no improvement, this clutch sucks! Any help would be appreciated.

Roadwarrior1956

I have one in my car, it did slip a lot the first couple hundred miles but stopped before it got 500 on the clock, this is a 383 stroker and has strong power, but does not slip now.

Don't know what to tell you, check for oil on the clutch!

Good luck!

BALLSS

Yes ZOOM HP Kevlar/Kevlar "puc" clutch

stock "Valeo" on my heads/cam 350. 383 drove through that then I got a SPEC 2+. Held great until 2k mi and a sudden death on the starting line.

Went with the ZOOM and have had it 2 seasons now. 4400+ lb B-body 383 car.

tbag_skywalker

It sounds like those type of clutches can hold some good horsepower. It makes me wonder if somehow mine's glazed. I know kevlars not as forgiving as an organic disk, and usually when kevlar glazes bad it doesn't fully recover.

I'm startin to think somethings not right with mine, because it should be broken in by 1000miles. Thanks for your input guys, I'm startin to lean towards talking to Spec about a different type of clutch because I don't think this one's gonna work out.

BALLSS

did not know the 2 pr 2+ was kevlar.

my 2+ appeared tpo be more metalic puc vs kevlar

pic below

I understand the hotter kevlar gets the better it holds...

sepno77

iTrader: (5)

Are you leaking any oil? reason for asking is cause if your leaking from the rear main seal it will destroy your clutch. I had that clutch before and it dosn't seem to like high rpms as mine went out in less then 1 year and I don't drive my car as a daily.

tbag_skywalker

I am leaking oil... but really really slowly. Maybe a drop per day from the rear mail seal if even that. When I first got my car it had the dreaded intake manifold leak, oilpan leak, and a rear mail seal leak. So I put new Felpro gaskets and RTV in to fix the intake manifold leak, and also put in a new Felpro oilpan gaskets and rear main seal. Unfortunately the rear mail seal leak is still there but its slower.

I had a Spec stage1 clutch back when I had all these leaks and it wasn't nearly enough oil to effect the clutch, it was just small, slow runs down the back of the motor. Now I've got just one very small leak so I know it won't be affecting the clutch whatsoever. The stage1 clutch was organic and last through many years of not-so-easy driving... i wish I had just bought another one lol.

I took everything apart yesterday to figure out whats going on in there. The flywheel had a thick black ring burned into the middle of it, the friction disk was gray (used to be tan) and glazed on both sides, mostly on the flywheel side where it had a matching black ring around the middle of it. The pressure plate also looked cooked but not quite as bad, mostly tan and brown on about 80% of the surface.

Soooo I got in contact with Spec and they had me send a few pictures to them. I'm just waiting to here back from them and hopefully I'll get another clutch that wont suck from them. It boggles my mind how a stage1 organic clutch can work so well for years, and a stage2 which was installed and babied the same way through break-in could be such a pile of ****.

93Z2871805

iTrader: (5)

My friend had the same clutch in his Vette, it didn't slip but it does make a grinding whirring sound.

946spdz

iTrader: (19)

Just installed a zoom dual friction kevlar and its slipping when it gets hot so i can relate and ive come to a conclusion its probably junk

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

IMHO Kevlar is good for stock or mild power levels only. What makes it real nice is how buttery smooth it is compared to OEM. I had one and encountered slippage after a while too.

The other thing about Kevlar, the flywheel and PP surface MUST be dead nuts flat period or slippage will occur.

946spdz

iTrader: (19)

so what do u think i did wrong to make that happen??

tbag_skywalker

Ok guys i got a bit of an update, of course no good news.

Spec recieved my clutch and diagnosed my problem for me, the friction disk is aparently saturated in motor oil. It didn't look so to me, but then again I've only dealt with organic friction disks.

I've got a really slow rear main seal leak, and I've always had one, and I don't think it ever gave my old Spec stage1 any problems. Funny thing is that more oil seems to accumulate in the little slave cylinder aluminum housing than it does drip on the ground from the bottom of the bellhousing. It looked like it was the original rear main seal when I replaced it with an AC Delco seal last year (when I had my tranny out to be rebuilt), and then it was replaced again this past summer with a Felpro seal (when I put in the new clutch). Funny thing is it didnt stop the leak at all when I changed it but it atleast it didnt get worse.... i don't think. But aparently its bad enough to ruin any new clutches I put in the car.

I also had the dreaded intake manifold leak, which I fixed last year with some Felpro gaskets and ultra copper RTV. I'm gonna check again but I'm about 99% sure there's no leak there anymore.

Soooo basically Spec said they'll rebuild my clutch for me for $100, which I guess could have been worse. The trick is that I've gotta figure out how to fix this oil leak or I'm gonna keep ruining new clutches.... and I have no freakin clue how to stop the leak.

BALLSS

Good SPEC is helping you out.

Given the 2+ times the rear main has been replaced and you still have a leak... check to confirm source.....you can get a oil dye kit which helps hard to find leaks.

Your intake (rear) oil sensor, valve cover, oil pan, oil filter adapter...all could be source of leak.

trx250r

how involved was intake gasket to replace? I need to do mine.

tbag_skywalker

So its been a while since my last post and I've had a little bit of time to tinker around with the Firebird. Unfortunately a few days ago my daily driver crapped the bed on me so I've had to fix that before anything else (fuel pump shat the bed on my Saab, had to have the Swedish gem towed home).

So yesterday I got back to work on the Firebird, its been sittin on jackstands with no tranny or clutch since I'm still waiting for my rebuilt clutch to come back from Spec. I considered buying one of those oil dye kits that you mentioned, ******, but I figured I'd just try one more idea of mine and let you guys know what happened.

Yesterday I bolted the flywheel and primary oxygen sensors back on, and cleaned the living crap out of the back of the motor from the intake manifold to the oilpan with a bottle of brakleen and a rag. Then I compressed the slave cylinder with my hand and had a friend push the clutch gently and start the car up. I sat under the car and let it idle for 10-15 minutes. In that entire time only 2 drops of motor oil fell. Not a single one from the back of the intake manifold, the oilpan, or rear main seal; in fact the whole area around the intake manifold and rear mainseal housing were pretty much bone dry. The 2 drops that did fall actually came from over by the oil filter, which was odd. I unfortunately ran out of time and didn't really get a chance to look harder to see exactly where that oil came from.

So I got back under the car today and tried to trace the oil back from the filter but with no success. At that point I decided to clean the crap out of that area of the motor, all around the oilfilter, above it, and up the top of the block behind the drivers side head. I even unhooked the sensor (forgot what it is) on the drivers' side of the oilpan, pulled it aside, and cleaned the plastic conduit that runs down to it and plugged it back into place. So this is where I really got confused... I started the car up again and let it idle for about a half hour. I shut if off and checked things out-- not one freakin drop of oil anywhere! Even all the surfaces around the oilfilter were completely bone dry!

One day the car leaks, another day it doesn't, and it never eve rleaks when the engines off. And when it was leaking it was pretty slow which makes me wonder how that could possibley be enough oil to contaminate a friction disk. So now I'm just kind of confused, and I'm starting to think the guy at SPEC was completely full of ****. I remember looking really closely at that Kevlar disk which was glazed and burned a little, and thinking "this doesn't look saturated or contaminated at all," before I mailed it back to SPEC. But then again I really only have experience with organic disks so I can't be so sure. It just didn't look contaminated at all, I just think that that Kevlar clutch was a piece of junk.