Cam Gurus Chime In? Coming to an End Making sure on Cam for my Stroker!!!
#22
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***warning - bench racing ahead***
why such a wide split? Do you plan on spraying?
Your aftermarket tfs heads flow a hell of a lot better then stockers on the exhaust side, so you don't need so much exhaust duration. Imo you could pick up even more tq and increase drivability while also lowering overlap by bringing the intake and exhaust durations closer together. Rpm range should drop even more as well. This would all be beneficial on a car that sees more street then track duty. Hell, you could probably go up a bit on the intake and down a bit on the exhaust, keep the hp range the same, and pick up tq across the board.
Big splits are really left-over train of thought from sbc heads whose flow heavily favored the intake duration so they jacked up the exhaust to compensate. Your heads are flowing on the exhaust what some level 1/2 ported stockers flow on the intake!
why such a wide split? Do you plan on spraying?
Your aftermarket tfs heads flow a hell of a lot better then stockers on the exhaust side, so you don't need so much exhaust duration. Imo you could pick up even more tq and increase drivability while also lowering overlap by bringing the intake and exhaust durations closer together. Rpm range should drop even more as well. This would all be beneficial on a car that sees more street then track duty. Hell, you could probably go up a bit on the intake and down a bit on the exhaust, keep the hp range the same, and pick up tq across the board.
Big splits are really left-over train of thought from sbc heads whose flow heavily favored the intake duration so they jacked up the exhaust to compensate. Your heads are flowing on the exhaust what some level 1/2 ported stockers flow on the intake!
i have never spoken directly with bill, when matt put me on hold he made mention of having to discuss a few things about my setup with a bill, and i inquired to find out that he was speaking with a guy of that name,
#23
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.......ok here is the thing i found, with the 240 duration lobe the 108 seems to be a better match for this motor, as it lets the motor pull evenly past peak power with only a minimal hp drop from peak, where as with the 106, or 104, it gains about 6 ft lbs of tq under the curve, for a tradeoff of the motor dropping off more after peak power. Now the 244 lobe does like the 4-6 degee advanced ic........
Focusing on that high rpm hp takes away from the overall package performance. You will only notice that hp beyond the peak on the dyno.
#24
Best advice is still to not put too much faith in simulations and talk to the pros that have been there before like LE and Phil.
#26
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I have seen used lsa that tight but on mostly strip cars, where wide open performance is of most inportance.
Thanks for your reply,
if nothing else this thread may help someone else with cam selection as well.
#29
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And toby, I have to disagree with your suggestions regarding LSA and ICL. Unless you're picking the wrong lobes to start with, staying with 108 LSA and 105-106 ICL is going to give you a better power curve for a driver Plus, assuming he's planning on running pump gas, that ICL would be a problem.
LT1Stroker, you really will spend less money and maintenance on a solid roller when trying to run this much cam. Please reconsider
#31
Maybe I'm just too exhausted to think from lack of sleep, but solid roller lobes are actually more aggressive off the base since they have a faster ramp rate then an hr lobe, which is what makes their effective duration shorter.
This is why a solid roller behaves like a hyd roller of around 10* less duration.
This is why a solid roller behaves like a hyd roller of around 10* less duration.
#32
Maybe I'm just too exhausted to think from lack of sleep, but solid roller lobes are actually more aggressive off the base since they have a faster ramp rate then an hr lobe, which is what makes their effective duration shorter.
This is why a solid roller behaves like a hyd roller of around 10* less duration.
This is why a solid roller behaves like a hyd roller of around 10* less duration.
#33
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And toby, I have to disagree with your suggestions regarding LSA and ICL. Unless you're picking the wrong lobes to start with, staying with 108 LSA and 105-106 ICL is going to give you a better power curve for a driver Plus, assuming he's planning on running pump gas, that ICL would be a problem.
Thanks guys foryour Input This is sooo much help to me you will never know.
#34
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Do not quote me on any of this explanation, as this is how I interpreted it from the discussion with Comp Cams; I probed pretty good to get a pretty good explanation from the two as some things I asked he had to refer to the Bill guy for answers to dome of these questions.
Hope this helps, and not hurts anyone, as I may waaaaaaaay out in left field!
#35
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What do you think of the lobes I am talking about, based on my conversation with Comp ^^^^^^^^ ; would you shy away or give it a try, I don't mind being a pioneer , however I do mind being a dummy
#36
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Here is some insight, simply for those who want to know, of where I got my build idea. T&L built 2 of these motors for Chevelle magazine and for Popular Hot Rodding. The one in the CHevelle mag was done based on hyd roller using Xtreme energy lobes single pattern cam 288/288 236/236 and as toby said they used a 105 LSA. However they also only had 10:1 CR using 75cc AFR 195 heads.THey used a 1.65 rocker, and got .575 lift. This motor made 549hp and 530tq and peak power was made at 6250 with an Edelbrock RPM .
Here is the link to this build : http://www.tandlengines.com/article_...%20Article.pdf
The other practically the same thing accept they used the AFR 210, a bit more compression at 10.5:1 and a solid roller, using the Xtreme energy lobes, still single pattern 280/280 242/242 and again with a 1.65 rocker .602 /.602 lift, still on a 105 LSA.
THey did more intake and carb testing with this setup, from a RPM Air Gap, to a Super Victor single plane and then to a Dominator Super Victor. This motor made its best with the single plane Dominator at @ 595hp , 4150 style VIctor made 578 or so hp both around 62-6300.
Here is that link : http://www.tandlengines.com/article_.../PHR_May09.pdf
This is just for those interested!
i am hoping to better those numbers with the LT1 since it allows me more compression, and I have use of a just slightly better head, by flow compare. Both of these setups made mention of having a near lope free idle at 850, and both were designed to made peak power by the 6000 range. and both used the 105 ICL. Who knows??
Here is the link to this build : http://www.tandlengines.com/article_...%20Article.pdf
The other practically the same thing accept they used the AFR 210, a bit more compression at 10.5:1 and a solid roller, using the Xtreme energy lobes, still single pattern 280/280 242/242 and again with a 1.65 rocker .602 /.602 lift, still on a 105 LSA.
THey did more intake and carb testing with this setup, from a RPM Air Gap, to a Super Victor single plane and then to a Dominator Super Victor. This motor made its best with the single plane Dominator at @ 595hp , 4150 style VIctor made 578 or so hp both around 62-6300.
Here is that link : http://www.tandlengines.com/article_.../PHR_May09.pdf
This is just for those interested!
i am hoping to better those numbers with the LT1 since it allows me more compression, and I have use of a just slightly better head, by flow compare. Both of these setups made mention of having a near lope free idle at 850, and both were designed to made peak power by the 6000 range. and both used the 105 ICL. Who knows??
#37
those 2 engines do illustrate what i was trying to say. i think you would get good results using those sp lobes wicked94z suggested. what lsa you use depends on what is more important to you. if you want more power use 105. if driveability, ease of tuning, and gas mileage is more important use 108 or wider.
#38
Here is some insight, simply for those who want to know, of where I got my build idea. T&L built 2 of these motors for Chevelle magazine and for Popular Hot Rodding. The one in the CHevelle mag was done based on hyd roller using Xtreme energy lobes single pattern cam 288/288 236/236 and as toby said they used a 105 LSA. However they also only had 10:1 CR using 75cc AFR 195 heads.THey used a 1.65 rocker, and got .575 lift. This motor made 549hp and 530tq and peak power was made at 6250 with an Edelbrock RPM .
Here is the link to this build : http://www.tandlengines.com/article_...%20Article.pdf
The other practically the same thing accept they used the AFR 210, a bit more compression at 10.5:1 and a solid roller, using the Xtreme energy lobes, still single pattern 280/280 242/242 and again with a 1.65 rocker .602 /.602 lift, still on a 105 LSA.
THey did more intake and carb testing with this setup, from a RPM Air Gap, to a Super Victor single plane and then to a Dominator Super Victor. This motor made its best with the single plane Dominator at @ 595hp , 4150 style VIctor made 578 or so hp both around 62-6300.
Here is that link : http://www.tandlengines.com/article_.../PHR_May09.pdf
This is just for those interested!
i am hoping to better those numbers with the LT1 since it allows me more compression, and I have use of a just slightly better head, by flow compare. Both of these setups made mention of having a near lope free idle at 850, and both were designed to made peak power by the 6000 range. and both used the 105 ICL. Who knows??
Here is the link to this build : http://www.tandlengines.com/article_...%20Article.pdf
The other practically the same thing accept they used the AFR 210, a bit more compression at 10.5:1 and a solid roller, using the Xtreme energy lobes, still single pattern 280/280 242/242 and again with a 1.65 rocker .602 /.602 lift, still on a 105 LSA.
THey did more intake and carb testing with this setup, from a RPM Air Gap, to a Super Victor single plane and then to a Dominator Super Victor. This motor made its best with the single plane Dominator at @ 595hp , 4150 style VIctor made 578 or so hp both around 62-6300.
Here is that link : http://www.tandlengines.com/article_.../PHR_May09.pdf
This is just for those interested!
i am hoping to better those numbers with the LT1 since it allows me more compression, and I have use of a just slightly better head, by flow compare. Both of these setups made mention of having a near lope free idle at 850, and both were designed to made peak power by the 6000 range. and both used the 105 ICL. Who knows??
I also plan on 600hp with a hydraulic roller, but it is not an easy or cheap task. I completely gave up with simulators after numerous nights of testing, and will just be sending my head flow sheet to Llyod to spec me my own HR and recommend me the best springs to use with it. It is important to never cut corners on a build this aggressive.
My specs are 12.5:1 CR, half filled 4-bolt splayed 383, Super victor, ported AFRs(330cfms), 1.7 shaft mount rockers, EFI connection LSX computer conversion, and whatever cam and springs LE tells me to use. Of course also all the supporting mods you would expect - EWP, 42# SVOs, racetronix pump + hotwire setup, etc. I am still looking on whether I will run LS7 lifters or bite the bullet and get the morels for piece of mind. Even if they are not worth any power, they are machined bodies so they are stronger and more reliable in high hp/rpm builds the OEM style cast lifters...
#39
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those 2 engines do illustrate what i was trying to say. i think you would get good results using those sp lobes wicked94z suggested. what lsa you use depends on what is more important to you. if you want more power use 105. if driveability, ease of tuning, and gas mileage is more important use 108 or wider.