Starting E-85 conversion...
Correct. If using a wideband that is setup to display gasoline A/F ratio it will display 14.7 at lambda. Some widebands such as my LM1 have the ability to change the display on the unit for different types of fuel, or to simply display lambda. If tuning for E85, I would invest in a wideband, that way you can always keep an eye on your A/F, and adjust if the mixture changes from E85 to E70 and vice versa.
Yea we tried adding a lot of fuel on crank still took acouple tries. This was like 10 degrees and lower on 2.0l turbo engines also at a pretty high altitude don't know if that played a role or not. Never had a problem starting my LT1 although when it was that cold out it was usually a no go on driving it due to snow.
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raceone85 website
i live in sunny southern california, i'm not sure if we have a winter blend of e85... there's only about 3 stations in my county that sell e85 anyways. I'll be using a lambda capable wideband on the street to get it close, I'll be using 60# injectors, and will start at 70% injector constant. Then i'll go up or down a few percent to get my current tune as close as possible, then i'll start playing with the ve tables. I'm only running 30* timing across the board right now on pump gas, my gas mileage might not change that much when i add 12+ degrees at cruise. I see that they recommend a non extended tip plug with e-85, and possibly one heat range colder. I'm running a 3923 right now, guess i'll switch to a 3934 for a 150 shot? Time to do some searching on yellow bullet.
Tony I'm just concerned about running a 150 shot when i'm already at 13.5:1 compression, guess i'll pull 10 degrees out of it and see where that leaves me.
i live in sunny southern california, i'm not sure if we have a winter blend of e85... there's only about 3 stations in my county that sell e85 anyways. I'll be using a lambda capable wideband on the street to get it close, I'll be using 60# injectors, and will start at 70% injector constant. Then i'll go up or down a few percent to get my current tune as close as possible, then i'll start playing with the ve tables. I'm only running 30* timing across the board right now on pump gas, my gas mileage might not change that much when i add 12+ degrees at cruise. I see that they recommend a non extended tip plug with e-85, and possibly one heat range colder. I'm running a 3923 right now, guess i'll switch to a 3934 for a 150 shot? Time to do some searching on yellow bullet.
Tony I'm just concerned about running a 150 shot when i'm already at 13.5:1 compression, guess i'll pull 10 degrees out of it and see where that leaves me.
That would be pretty hard to tune, guessing you would have to account for the ethanol being:
burns 30% (aprox) more (so if you have 1200cc injectors they will act like 840cc, I'm used to DSMs so I still think of injectors in CCs
)
Carries O2 in its chemical composition unlike gasoline that has no oxygen in its chemical bonds.
Octane rating varies from 100 to 105 based on the time of year and mix they use at gas stations
I know nothing about C16 but it seems like it would take someone who knows how Octane, Burning Speed (The speed at which fuel releases its energy.) Energy Value, and the Cooling Effect of both type of fuel would be able to make a tune for a car running both C16 and E85.
burns 30% (aprox) more (so if you have 1200cc injectors they will act like 840cc, I'm used to DSMs so I still think of injectors in CCs
)Carries O2 in its chemical composition unlike gasoline that has no oxygen in its chemical bonds.
Octane rating varies from 100 to 105 based on the time of year and mix they use at gas stations
I know nothing about C16 but it seems like it would take someone who knows how Octane, Burning Speed (The speed at which fuel releases its energy.) Energy Value, and the Cooling Effect of both type of fuel would be able to make a tune for a car running both C16 and E85.
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alright guys got it running on E85. Steps were:
Swap in 60# injectors
Change injector contant to 48#
My old A/F was right around 12.8-12.9 at WOT, these two changes alone put me at .80-.81 lambda, so i could probably take another 1 or 2 percent of fuel out of it. Note, since my part throttle tune is still not complete (OLSD) I haven't really checked where its at at cruising yet, I just wanted to get the car to the track today. Unfortunately something is wrong with my AKM cable and my last attempt to take some fuel out resulted in a fried PCM. Tried a new PCM and i'm getting an "incorrect signal" so there's something wrong with the cable.... stay tuned for an update
Swap in 60# injectors
Change injector contant to 48#
My old A/F was right around 12.8-12.9 at WOT, these two changes alone put me at .80-.81 lambda, so i could probably take another 1 or 2 percent of fuel out of it. Note, since my part throttle tune is still not complete (OLSD) I haven't really checked where its at at cruising yet, I just wanted to get the car to the track today. Unfortunately something is wrong with my AKM cable and my last attempt to take some fuel out resulted in a fried PCM. Tried a new PCM and i'm getting an "incorrect signal" so there's something wrong with the cable.... stay tuned for an update
E85 Here is an app of E84 A/F vs Gas..
Air/Fuel Ratios
Fuel Stoich Rich Limit Lean Limit
Gasoline 14.7.1 12.5.1 13.2.1
Methanol 6.4.1 5.4.1 5.7.1
Ethanol 9.0.1 6.4.1 7.8.1
E-85 9.7.1 6.9.1 8.4.1
FORCED INDCUTION OR NITROUS APPLICATIONS
Fuel Stoich Rich Limit Lean Limit
Gasoline 14.7.1 11.5.1 12.2.1
Methanol 6.4.1 4.4.1 4.7.1
Ethanol 9.0.1 5.4.1 6.8.1
E-85 9.7.1 5.9.1 7.4.1
Fuel Stoich Rich Limit Lean Limit
Gasoline 14.7.1 10.5.1 11.2.1
Methanol 6.4.1 3.4.1 3.7.1
Ethanol 9.0.1 4.4.1 5.8.1
E-85 9.7.1 4.9.1 6.4.1
sorry, in the edit mode all of the numbers are nice and separated but they cluster together after a save..
Air/Fuel Ratios
Fuel Stoich Rich Limit Lean Limit
Gasoline 14.7.1 12.5.1 13.2.1
Methanol 6.4.1 5.4.1 5.7.1
Ethanol 9.0.1 6.4.1 7.8.1
E-85 9.7.1 6.9.1 8.4.1
FORCED INDCUTION OR NITROUS APPLICATIONS
Fuel Stoich Rich Limit Lean Limit
Gasoline 14.7.1 11.5.1 12.2.1
Methanol 6.4.1 4.4.1 4.7.1
Ethanol 9.0.1 5.4.1 6.8.1
E-85 9.7.1 5.9.1 7.4.1
Fuel Stoich Rich Limit Lean Limit
Gasoline 14.7.1 10.5.1 11.2.1
Methanol 6.4.1 3.4.1 3.7.1
Ethanol 9.0.1 4.4.1 5.8.1
E-85 9.7.1 4.9.1 6.4.1
sorry, in the edit mode all of the numbers are nice and separated but they cluster together after a save..
Last edited by moehorsepower; Feb 19, 2010 at 06:53 AM. Reason: edit
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thanks for that moe, i've been reading a lot and most say to run it richer for more power, so I'll be shooting for about 8.0 afr (~.825 lambda), and about .75 on nitrous. Should be getting my new cable from AKM on monday, since i was getting an error code with his old cable he gave me a great discount on a new one 
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thanks for that moe, i've been reading a lot and most say to run it richer for more power, so I'll be shooting for about 8.0 afr (~.825 lambda), and about .75 on nitrous. Should be getting my new cable from AKM on monday, since i was getting an error code with his old cable he gave me a great discount on a new one
dont get caught up in all the math, put it on the dyno or plug in a wideband and shoot for ar 13.0 A/F or 12.8 what ever the car was running at on gas. E-85 is a different fuel, most claim that you need to run more timing that pump gas, but if you have a race gas tune i would guess that the timing tables are close for e-85. Read your plugs to make sure.
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I've been doing a lot of reading, and the leanest I've seen anyone running e85 on a gasoline scaled wideband was 11:1. He took timing out and added fuel down to 10:1 and gained 4 mph. This was on a high 8 second car.
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All the research I've done tends to suggest although the ethanol lights off slower initially than gasoline, it has a much faster burn rate once it's lit off, so you may benefit from LESS timing. I'll see when i get my cable on monday, and hit the dyno next week, and publish my findings.
