wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

Update.
I put a brand new 10554 pump and pickup on. The pickup was too high at around 3/4" so now it is set to 1/4". I let the pan push the pickup up up to make it flush with the floor. Then raised in 1/8" and along with the gasket it should be a tad over 1/4" off the floor.

The problem remains and is not better or worse. I dont get it. I hate this car.

I guess next is going to be a bigger oil pan although I am not convinced its a starvation problem. It seems like a momentary bleed off problem.

$750 L98

iTrader: (7)

Have you checked the oil pump drive gear? Cam driven on these cars right? Is it possible the gear is walking or skipping during rotation? That looked a lot like oil pressure spiking, as if either something was impeding flow momentarily, or a mechanical issue with the pump itself is preventing it from producing full pressure.

I'm not a guru, so just throwing things out there, but is there a possibility that pressure is bleeding off back through the filter or some bypass valve? Possibly a weak bypass spring?

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

I reused the white spring from the first pump. Although I had no real correct way of testing, it felt fine and not abnormal or weak. The pump still made 70# cold which is where the pump relief opens up. Can it reall open up at conditions under 70#?

I have not pulled the intake and checked the drive gear but i guess that should be done. I would think that if there were a problem it would just up and fail and not turn the pump at all.

This pump is brand new, just put it in today. I can rule out the pump and the pickup height. New filter too.

I do have the adapter bypass plugged up to force all oil through the filter. Could that be cuasing this?

$750 L98

iTrader: (7)

It definitely sounds like something might be giving and bleeding off pressure, maybe it is the spring, bleeding pressure off and then bouncing back up causing the erratic behavior? I would like to think that something is bleeding off pressure, because if it is something that is blocking flow and causing excessive increase - I wouldn't see the motor lasting long.

But again I'm no guru, hopefully some one with a bit more grit under their finger nails can help pin it down.

bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

mine does the same damn thing, and ive put over 60 track passes on it in the past year no problems yet tho. also drops to 0-5psi when its at warm idle. still shifting at 6100 on a stock ~110k mile shortblock, pretty sure its something to do with the sending unit. I say put a mechanical on there to verify.

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

I have a mechanical gauge and it reads nearly the same as the dash gauge. I drained the M1 and put in standard Penzoil 5w30. Still does it. I might try some 10w40 next.

Seems like it does it less if the motor is not completely warmed up. Once it it is fully warm, it does it most of the time.

Some have suggested loose bearing clearances. Again I have 23# at idle and easily make 10# per 1000RPM all the way to 6K RPM except for the instant drop then recovery at 5.5K RPM. Can this really be a loose bearing clearance? If clearances were loose, would the pressures be low across the board?

I am seriously thinking about selling the car. I am sick of the problems.

bufmatmuslepants

iTrader: (3)

put in some thick as **** diesel oil and sell it.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

You have problems because you insist on doing things wrong and dismiss what little good advise you get on the forums.

Get the oil in the pan under control and this problem will go away.

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

Cap. I am certain your knowledge and experience is greater than mine. Respectfully I am not dismissing any advice. I would like to think I am more systematically going down the list and attempting to troubleshoot as to avoid unneeded expense. My time I dont really give a damn about. I did find the pickup well above the 3/8" height after-all. All the advice is appreciated. The standard oil has slightly rasied pressures across the board. 4 quarts and 5.5 quarts in the pan shows the same result.

But for discussion sake. Why would I have a loss of oil control with a 355 stock headed standard flow oil pump motor that is mainly street driven? Does a higher power motor really pump so much more oil that flow disruption might occur under the pickup? Or is it that the car accelerates so much faster that the oil is climbing the rear the pan? It also happens at the exact same RPM every time.

I can accelerate hard in 2nd or 3rd gears individually and it still does it and thats starting at coasting with the clutch pressed then raising to 4K RPM so the pan should be good and full. The video was not a blast through all three gears at once. Each blast was coasting low RPM then dropping down and nailing it.

All that is really left is the need for a better pan with better control or there is a bearing clearance issue causing a bleed off which I truly hope is not the case. I did forget to mention that when I had the pan off again two days ago, there was some gold (likely bearing) sediment on the bottom of the pan. It could only be seen in the sun and did not appear in the oil as far as I could tell. Although I am no expert on what amount "may" be normal, it did not look like a lot sparkle and certainly did not look like it it just puked up all its bearings. The engine builder said it could be from some normal thrust bearing wear from day one. Is this reasonable to think?

kinglt-1

iTrader: (26)

idk man anything gold in the oil pan don't sound good! My 383 never had any issues running the stock pan with a melling hv pump. It always runs 70 psi cold and 50psi hot, never drops or does anything erratic at wot, wierd issue you got goin on!

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

Agreed.
I just went for a drive and had the following according to the mechanical gauge:
20#hot idle
30#1.5K RPM
40#3K RPM
50#4K RPM
60#5K RPM
~60#6.5K RPM
Still the 60# to 40# negative spike and back to 60 in less than a second.

That seems decent to me for 5w30 oil and nearly 80 degrees outside and certainly does not act like bad bearing clearances. The negative pressure spike and recovery is much faster on the mechanical gauge. In fact the needle snaps down then back.

My engine builder is going to make some phone calls before any more time and money is wasted.

Ed Wright

iTrader: (1)

I would look at the relief valve in the pump. When the pick up was welded, they did remove the reliefe assy, right? A tack weld is all that is needed. Too much weld can distort the reliefe valve bore. May need honed to remove a tight spot. The heat from welding can be hard on the spring also, but with 60 psi I would guess the spring is OK. I would look for a sticking relief piston.
Light oil (like 5-W-20) makes sucking the pan dry less likely. Returns faster than thick oil. You do not want thick oil, nor a high volume pump.

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

The spring and piston were removed before welding the pickup. The piston slid in nice and smooth afterward and no evidence of sticking.

It seems I have bigger problems and maybe they are related.

• The inside of the intake is coated with oil which did not come through the fresh air hose.

• Also there is light smoke coming out the tail pipes.

• The filter showed evidence of shiny silver flakes, maybe aluminum. Piston maybe???

I am not sure if the burning oil is coming through the rings or it is coming from the inside of the intake. I really dont understand how the oil got inside the intake.

jaycenk

iTrader: (1)

Shiny stuff could be the bearings. Its the coating on them I think. I would pull it and make sure you don't F up the crank and rods. You may have blow by on the rings that is pressurizing the hell out of the crank case and blowing into the crank case and back up throught the lifter vally and holding oil in the lifter vally and blowing it into the PCV valve passage and into the intake through the PCV system. Who sized the rings on this engine?

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

Engine builder did the rings, but its got 10K miles and 3 years of use and this problem is brand new.

I took the intake off and cleaned it out well. Also cleaned the intake ports too and say gunk on the valves from the oil contamination. I guess that will just burn away in time if the problem is fixed. I inspected the pump drive and its fine.

Put the intake back on and initially there is no smoke at idle but I did not have a chance to drive it. Yesterday morning it was so obvious just at idle abut I dont see any now. Even smells better now but I need to drive it.

I can say this. I know I had the oil overfilled to the "O" in operating range on the dipstick to test the pressure drop problem so maybe it got froffed and the into the lifter valley and the PCV sucked it in and coated the intake. Kind of seems plausible.

I will drive it some today and reply.

jaycenk

iTrader: (1)

I could see that if the crank was wipping through the oil from the oil level being to high it could actually contaminate the air in side the engine with oil due to the thin stuff you run, and the pcv system would pick it up and coat your intake. How long did you run like that?

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

1-2 weeks and less than 100 miles.

jaycenk

iTrader: (1)

What has been the engine builders take on all of this?

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

He is kind of at a loss on the pressure drop. Guessing maybe some cavitation. This one is really tough to diagnose. I doubt it did this prior to the pickup falling off three weeks ago but I cant be sure of it.

1993 z28 f1

iTrader: (6)

Hey:

What was the fix to this?

Dub