Quick head gasket question
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Quick head gasket question I'm doing a cam swap. I've got the engine striped down and noticed oil seeping out of the head and block juction on both sides towards the back half of each gasket.
So I'm going to pull the heads, scrape off the old gasket and clean the surfaces up, and throw them back on with new head gaskets. No machine shop for this to keep my costs down. I figure they are not warped anyways because the leak is slow and no coolant issues either.
My question:
Has anybody had any problems with these head gaskets? Will they work?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FPP-1074/
Also, will these head bolts work?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-134-3701/
Thanks for reading,
Ben
So I'm going to pull the heads, scrape off the old gasket and clean the surfaces up, and throw them back on with new head gaskets. No machine shop for this to keep my costs down. I figure they are not warped anyways because the leak is slow and no coolant issues either.
My question:
Has anybody had any problems with these head gaskets? Will they work?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FPP-1074/
Also, will these head bolts work?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-134-3701/
Thanks for reading,
Ben
you could also run a smaller head gasket like the impala or if you really want to gain comp the 1094 gasket.you will just need to open up the water holes a tad from what i understand from a previous thread.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Thanks. I'll be ordering the parts shortly.
Does anybody see anything wrong with the method to my madness? The quick clean-up that is? Will just scraping the old gasket off and cleaning with alittle brake clean work for me?
Or is there some other way to clean the deck of the block and it's mate surface on the heads?
Does anybody see anything wrong with the method to my madness? The quick clean-up that is? Will just scraping the old gasket off and cleaning with alittle brake clean work for me?
Or is there some other way to clean the deck of the block and it's mate surface on the heads?
Keep them the same. You don't want to machine one over the other unless you can verify that either of them is in need of a decking or a shave. Take a really good straight edge and test the surfaces of the block and head once they are clean. Brake clean works good but don't loose any **** into that engine other wise you could contaminate a bearing. Then you will be having a lot of machine work done. There is a tolerance that the deck and the head need to meet and with a feeler gage and straight edge you can find out.
yep take your time an go slow and do it in a well lit place..depending on how far down you pistons are and if there dome or flat tops..if flat tops ill cut a piece of semi thick card board to almost the exact size of the bore..ill make it just a tad bigger and stuff that in the bores so when i go to pull them out nothing will fall in and the card bored acts like a plunger an pulls all the **** out with it..intake valley i use card bored and tape..cut to fit and then tape well..you can also use a trash bag taped well in the intake valley
once your done scraping most the **** off..run a shop vac and suck most the stuff off all the card board..
for head gaskets spray with copper spray on both sides no mater if there silicon coated or not already then apply hy tac black gasket silicon lightly around all the water jackets and right at the very top of the gasket where the head meats the block an intake..then 3 step tq them down..
After that you can either heat the heads up with heat guns or run the engine till it gets well in the temp range for a bit..then kill the engine and let heads and motor completely cool an re tq your heads..alot of people do not do this step..its a important one..
between that and the copper spray and silicon around the waterjackets you should have no problems..
also look at the water passege holes on the block and the head..when putting the silicone around them use the bigger of the 2s diameter..
once your done scraping most the **** off..run a shop vac and suck most the stuff off all the card board..
for head gaskets spray with copper spray on both sides no mater if there silicon coated or not already then apply hy tac black gasket silicon lightly around all the water jackets and right at the very top of the gasket where the head meats the block an intake..then 3 step tq them down..
After that you can either heat the heads up with heat guns or run the engine till it gets well in the temp range for a bit..then kill the engine and let heads and motor completely cool an re tq your heads..alot of people do not do this step..its a important one..
between that and the copper spray and silicon around the waterjackets you should have no problems..
also look at the water passege holes on the block and the head..when putting the silicone around them use the bigger of the 2s diameter..
Don't put any type of RTV around the head gasket. The added thickness of the RTV will distort the gasket upon compression and squeeze it into the passages. Head gaskets are designed to be installed dry.
You should not have to re-torque the head bolts once they are installed properly.
You should not have to re-torque the head bolts once they are installed properly.
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Verdad Gallardo Don't put any type of RTV around the head gasket. The added thickness of the RTV will distort the gasket upon compression and squeeze it into the passages. Head gaskets are designed to be installed dry.
You should not have to re-torque the head bolts once they are installed properly.
You should not have to re-torque the head bolts once they are installed properly.
an retorque heads is the prober way..once the headeds expand and then contract for the first time the tq will not be the same..if you think im lieing next time you swap head gaskets and let the motor come up to temp toss a tq wrench on all the bolts..i bet they dont click right when you go to pull on the bar...you will want to loosen the studs or bolts about a half a turn and then re tq them..arp recommends cycleing there stuff 5 times with there lube before even trying to get a final tq spec.
Last edited by suicidal racing; Apr 12, 2010 at 03:34 PM.
wanna make a bet there buddy..you dont goop the silicone on it but a thin fine layer..an when spraying them with copper wait till the copper become tacky to install.
an retorque heads is the prober way..once the headeds expand and then contract for the first time the tq will not be the same..if you think im lieing next time you swap head gaskets and let the motor come up to temp toss a tq wrench on all the bolts..i bet they dont click right when you go to pull on the bar...you will want to loosen the studs or bolts about a half a turn and then re tq them..arp recommends cycleing there stuff 5 times with there lube before even trying to get a final tq spec.
an retorque heads is the prober way..once the headeds expand and then contract for the first time the tq will not be the same..if you think im lieing next time you swap head gaskets and let the motor come up to temp toss a tq wrench on all the bolts..i bet they dont click right when you go to pull on the bar...you will want to loosen the studs or bolts about a half a turn and then re tq them..arp recommends cycleing there stuff 5 times with there lube before even trying to get a final tq spec.
I've been around LT1s for 10 years, and not once have I heard of anyone needing to re-torque the head gaskets. If re-torquing was so important (and the RTV for that matter), don't you think GM would have put it in the service manual? Cuz it ain't.
You may have had good luck with it, but I assure you, re-torquing is NOT necessary, and adding RTV has the potential to do more harm than good.
DRY.
wrong wrong wrong...a thin coat/bead around the holes will not harm or throw off tq..if your theroy was so true then how come boosted guys,n/a guys and n2o guys do this to there gaskets? Some are lifteing heads and still not pushing water in alot of cases..but seeing its not in a g.m manual they all an including me must be wrong..an you step tq your head bolts any ways for this very reason to produce even head gasket torqueing...
Now i got to laugh at re torqueing head gaskets..lol bro you retorque the bolts.the bolts give the clamping force to keep the gasket squeezed between the heads and block.metal expands and contracts once heat is applied to it...so with that being said what do you think happens? the metal expanding is going to stretch your head bolts because there torqued and then shrink some once completely cooled..facts are you now have a bolt that was stretched in you block because it was torqued in there at 70ft #s when cold..do you really think the clamping force would be the same now? No it will not be thats why backing 1 bolt off at a time and retorquing it after the initial heat up and cool down is necessary
trust me im not talking out my *** here..arp even recommends on there site to run the head bolts in and tq them down 5 times with there lube before you will get the proper tq settings an do final torqueing..its done because the bolts will not give you the corrects tq yeilding force you need with just tossing them in..you intern have to stretch the bolts first so you know you are getting the proper tq spec your applying to your bolt or stud..
Now i got to laugh at re torqueing head gaskets..lol bro you retorque the bolts.the bolts give the clamping force to keep the gasket squeezed between the heads and block.metal expands and contracts once heat is applied to it...so with that being said what do you think happens? the metal expanding is going to stretch your head bolts because there torqued and then shrink some once completely cooled..facts are you now have a bolt that was stretched in you block because it was torqued in there at 70ft #s when cold..do you really think the clamping force would be the same now? No it will not be thats why backing 1 bolt off at a time and retorquing it after the initial heat up and cool down is necessary
trust me im not talking out my *** here..arp even recommends on there site to run the head bolts in and tq them down 5 times with there lube before you will get the proper tq settings an do final torqueing..its done because the bolts will not give you the corrects tq yeilding force you need with just tossing them in..you intern have to stretch the bolts first so you know you are getting the proper tq spec your applying to your bolt or stud..
Not getting in the middle of this debate, but in response to the OP, in addition to the cardboard or careful scraping and cleaning, I would also use a light scrubbing with a scotch brite pad on the surfaces once the majority of the material is cleaned off with brake clean or wd-40 to get the rest of the gasket material, if any, off.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
I read the 5 step retorqueing process on ARP's site. They are talking about the friction factor on the threads, and how re-torqueing them 5 times levels out the effect of friction on the threads. They say nothing about re-torqueing the bolts due to stretching, after the engine was started. Their bolts are not torque to yeild bolts anyways, which are designed to stretch.
Please don't continue an argument that is a matter of opinion. Both methods work. Leave it at that, and stick to using your own method on your own engine.
Thanks to those of you who responded to my original post.
Please don't continue an argument that is a matter of opinion. Both methods work. Leave it at that, and stick to using your own method on your own engine.
Thanks to those of you who responded to my original post.
i see the logic in retorquing them after a few heat cycles, heating and expanding it makes sense to retorque them just to double check.
the RTV is iffy. i have seen someone RTV too much and got a wicked bad motor knock afterwards... i would just pass on RTV/siliconing them.
the RTV is iffy. i have seen someone RTV too much and got a wicked bad motor knock afterwards... i would just pass on RTV/siliconing them.
I read the 5 step retorqueing process on ARP's site. They are talking about the friction factor on the threads, and how re-torqueing them 5 times levels out the effect of friction on the threads. They say nothing about re-torqueing the bolts due to stretching, after the engine was started. Their bolts are not torque to yeild bolts anyways, which are designed to stretch.
Please don't continue an argument that is a matter of opinion. Both methods work. Leave it at that, and stick to using your own method on your own engine.
Thanks to those of you who responded to my original post.
Please don't continue an argument that is a matter of opinion. Both methods work. Leave it at that, and stick to using your own method on your own engine.
Thanks to those of you who responded to my original post.
as for the sealent..read it says it on fel-pro's install tips..says if the surface is ruffer then 60rms which a stock block is a sealer must be applied to both sides of the gasket..sorry for the shitty pic but im busy packing for vaction
