Possible 575 HP w/ some changes?
05-01-2010, 11:12 AM
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Possible 575 HP w/ some changes? hey guys,
this thread is just for fun to see what ya'll think id gain with a few changes to my golen 396. its certainly fast enough for now, but near year i guarantee ill want more power.
without nitrous, say i were to step up to a 2.055 intake valve, more porting to both sides, some other trick head stuff, more porting to the intake, thinner head gaskets to get compression to 12:1, and a bigger cam along the lines of a 244/252 .600+ 108-110 LSA, and a set of 1 7/8 headers.
right now the car has ported TFS heads with a 2.02 intake valve, 11.5 compression, slightly ported intake, 236/244 .580-90 112 lsa cam, and 1 3/4 headers. made 520 HP and 490 TQ on the engine dyno.
thats definitely some cash for 40-50 HP gain, but i mean without juice it can get expensive, im guessing the peak torque would be up around 4800 from 4000 and HP from 6200 to 6800.
opinions?
this thread is just for fun to see what ya'll think id gain with a few changes to my golen 396. its certainly fast enough for now, but near year i guarantee ill want more power.
without nitrous, say i were to step up to a 2.055 intake valve, more porting to both sides, some other trick head stuff, more porting to the intake, thinner head gaskets to get compression to 12:1, and a bigger cam along the lines of a 244/252 .600+ 108-110 LSA, and a set of 1 7/8 headers.
right now the car has ported TFS heads with a 2.02 intake valve, 11.5 compression, slightly ported intake, 236/244 .580-90 112 lsa cam, and 1 3/4 headers. made 520 HP and 490 TQ on the engine dyno.
thats definitely some cash for 40-50 HP gain, but i mean without juice it can get expensive, im guessing the peak torque would be up around 4800 from 4000 and HP from 6200 to 6800.
opinions?
05-01-2010, 11:46 AM
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your car runs hard as hell, for some reason this car lost like 25% on the dyno, so i dont even go by that figure, its WAY faster then 390 RWHP lol. looking at your build the only real difference is you have about 1 more point of compression then myself, which is a good 20 HP probably
05-01-2010, 01:59 PM
#4
Golen's dyno is more than a little "happy" 25% loss once in car is typical so your super 520hp stroker makes LESS than a lot of good heads/cam setup cars. You want to make more power sell the whole thing to someone else and start over.
Don't bench race about how to pickup power. Copy Ramair95TA's setup, proven recipe.
Don't bench race about how to pickup power. Copy Ramair95TA's setup, proven recipe.
05-01-2010, 02:13 PM
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Golen's dyno is more than a little "happy" 25% loss once in car is typical so your super 520hp stroker makes LESS than a lot of good heads/cam setup cars. You want to make more power sell the whole thing to someone else and start over.
Don't bench race about how to pickup power. Copy Ramair95TA's setup, proven recipe.
Don't bench race about how to pickup power. Copy Ramair95TA's setup, proven recipe.
The AI undertones are being thrown around by you are amazing... No doubt Ramair95TA has a bad *** ride that will be in the 10's soon, but the OP can do what is mentioned with Golen parts. No need to sell his current set up, waste money and only be as fast as the other AI or die guys.
Just sayin.
05-01-2010, 02:54 PM
#7
25% drivetrain loss for a stalled 4L60E slushbox is about right.
Who cares what it puts down, take it to the track and see what it runs. 390 is not bad for an auto. My car made barely 350rwhp and ran 11.7s. Aba makes around 375 IIRC and runs killer times with a 100% streetable baby cammed 383.
There is more then one recipe for a quick car.
Who cares what it puts down, take it to the track and see what it runs. 390 is not bad for an auto. My car made barely 350rwhp and ran 11.7s. Aba makes around 375 IIRC and runs killer times with a 100% streetable baby cammed 383.
There is more then one recipe for a quick car.
Last edited by Puck; 05-01-2010 at 03:01 PM.
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05-01-2010, 02:59 PM
#8
http://www.impalassforum.com/vBullet...d.php?t=240110
This is the sort of thing that makes me say Golen is nowhere near as good as his magazine purchased reputation.
Cliff's notes, guys original golen was junk at under 7K miles and now so is the warranty motor, guy wised up and wont be installing a third Golen.
There are a LOT more examples like this out there.
Then there are the just never made power like the solid roller LE ported LT4 383 that made 545 on Golen's dyno but only 418 to the wheel and ran a blistering 12.5.
He had a handful of 440hp 383s butting down 320-330rwhp in b-bodies too, that is a low number for a cam only setup.
This is the sort of thing that makes me say Golen is nowhere near as good as his magazine purchased reputation.
Cliff's notes, guys original golen was junk at under 7K miles and now so is the warranty motor, guy wised up and wont be installing a third Golen.
There are a LOT more examples like this out there.
Then there are the just never made power like the solid roller LE ported LT4 383 that made 545 on Golen's dyno but only 418 to the wheel and ran a blistering 12.5.
He had a handful of 440hp 383s butting down 320-330rwhp in b-bodies too, that is a low number for a cam only setup.
05-01-2010, 03:31 PM
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thanks for bashing my car, caprice. chad actually personally talked to me about the b body crowd and how he doesnt bother on the internet. this was his personal car for 3 years, so im sure it makes what he said it does.
why would i sell my motor and start over? it runs great, i beat a 410 RWHP GTO and nearly kept up with a 475 RWHP LS1 camaro that runs low 11s at 125 MPH. so i doubt it doesnt make 520 hp.
im not caught up with HP figures, i prefer track times, but with a whinning rear end i dont plan on driving 2 hours to blow it up.
any more GOOD suggestions?
why would i sell my motor and start over? it runs great, i beat a 410 RWHP GTO and nearly kept up with a 475 RWHP LS1 camaro that runs low 11s at 125 MPH. so i doubt it doesnt make 520 hp.
im not caught up with HP figures, i prefer track times, but with a whinning rear end i dont plan on driving 2 hours to blow it up.
any more GOOD suggestions?
05-01-2010, 03:45 PM
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That includes a new rear-end, keeping the 4.10's if you please, bump up the stall to 3500-3600 rpm or even 4000rpms if you plan on staying NA, and is the tranny built for that power also
05-01-2010, 04:06 PM
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marc - im pretty tempted to do that, but its also my old mans car, we went half each. i would prefer a little more converter but this one really drives nice.
ramair - he must do ok if he sells 100+ engines a year, i was in the shop and its a very nice facility.
i didnt post this for people to tell me that they dont like golen engines and that chad is a fraud, do you people get off to this ****? all i wanted was some suggestions for a little more power when im ready for it, thats all.
ramair - he must do ok if he sells 100+ engines a year, i was in the shop and its a very nice facility.
i didnt post this for people to tell me that they dont like golen engines and that chad is a fraud, do you people get off to this ****? all i wanted was some suggestions for a little more power when im ready for it, thats all.
05-01-2010, 04:17 PM
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I would recommend focusing on the rear/tranny/suspension first if you want the car to be quicker/faster. Power can't really do much if you can't get it to the ground.
What are the goals for the car? Street driver with a little bit of strip time? Or just a street car and your occasional roll racer? How about budget between the two of you for modifications. Those few clarifications will help a great deal on how myself and other people can assist you in building you and your pop's toy
05-01-2010, 05:11 PM
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thanks for bashing my car, caprice. chad actually personally talked to me about the b body crowd and how he doesnt bother on the internet. this was his personal car for 3 years, so im sure it makes what he said it does.
why would i sell my motor and start over? it runs great, i beat a 410 RWHP GTO and nearly kept up with a 475 RWHP LS1 camaro that runs low 11s at 125 MPH. so i doubt it doesnt make 520 hp.
im not caught up with HP figures, i prefer track times, but with a whinning rear end i dont plan on driving 2 hours to blow it up.
any more GOOD suggestions?
why would i sell my motor and start over? it runs great, i beat a 410 RWHP GTO and nearly kept up with a 475 RWHP LS1 camaro that runs low 11s at 125 MPH. so i doubt it doesnt make 520 hp.
im not caught up with HP figures, i prefer track times, but with a whinning rear end i dont plan on driving 2 hours to blow it up.
any more GOOD suggestions?
Anyhow, are you opposed to going SR to pick up a couple of extra ponies?
05-01-2010, 05:28 PM
#16
Its also NOT a fixed % loss no matter how much HP you make.. People like to believe that for bench racing to inflat their dyno numbers, but it's just simply not true.
It takes X HP to turn X drivetrain, not a percentage of the total. It's been proven.
Take an engine making 350 at the crank, and figure 20% loss. So now it makes 280 at the tire...
Take an engine making 700 at the crank and the same 20% loss and now suddenly it loses 140hp??? and only makes 560 to the tire....??
No way...
It takes X HP to turn X drivetrain, not a percentage of the total. It's been proven.
Take an engine making 350 at the crank, and figure 20% loss. So now it makes 280 at the tire...
Take an engine making 700 at the crank and the same 20% loss and now suddenly it loses 140hp??? and only makes 560 to the tire....??
No way...
05-01-2010, 05:49 PM
#17
Its also NOT a fixed % loss no matter how much HP you make.. People like to believe that for bench racing to inflat their dyno numbers, but it's just simply not true.
It takes X HP to turn X drivetrain, not a percentage of the total. It's been proven.
Take an engine making 350 at the crank, and figure 20% loss. So now it makes 280 at the tire...
Take an engine making 700 at the crank and the same 20% loss and now suddenly it loses 140hp??? and only makes 560 to the tire....??
No way...
It takes X HP to turn X drivetrain, not a percentage of the total. It's been proven.
Take an engine making 350 at the crank, and figure 20% loss. So now it makes 280 at the tire...
Take an engine making 700 at the crank and the same 20% loss and now suddenly it loses 140hp??? and only makes 560 to the tire....??
No way...
Its more like that than you think, BUT it depends more on the drivetrain.
05-01-2010, 06:16 PM
#18
I will agree it is not a set percentage BUT at the same time more power means more thrust and such so it can take more hp to turn the drivetrain in a 600hp car than a 300hp one.
IMO the truth lay somewhere between a fixed percentage and a fixed number say 20% on a 300hp car for 60hp loss but maybe 16% on a 600hp car so maybe 96hp but not the 120hp it would have been with a 20% loss.
On the golen stuff though I have seen about 25% on the 440hp cars and 23.5-24% on 540ish stuff.
Of course headers and accessories play into this as well, not just drivetrain and acceleration rate can play with numbers too.
IMO the truth lay somewhere between a fixed percentage and a fixed number say 20% on a 300hp car for 60hp loss but maybe 16% on a 600hp car so maybe 96hp but not the 120hp it would have been with a 20% loss.
On the golen stuff though I have seen about 25% on the 440hp cars and 23.5-24% on 540ish stuff.
Of course headers and accessories play into this as well, not just drivetrain and acceleration rate can play with numbers too.
05-01-2010, 07:17 PM
#19
If you really want to get into it and make an arguement, you have to figure accessories, headers, oil weight, rear diff fluid, temperatures, tire/wheel weight, and all sorts of retarded stuff if you want to be **** about the exact drivetrain loss from flywheel to the rollers. For the rest of the world, 12% for a t56 and ~23% for a stalled auto will get you close enough. Its not an exact flat percentage, but there are way too many variables to calculate the real curve.
Like stated though, who gives a **** about 450rwhp if you still run mid 11s.
