zbomb5610

iTrader: (2)

I received my clutch disc and pressure plate from clutchnet today, figured i would take some pics comparing stock valeo vs clutchnet.

I personally feel just by holding and looking at the parts that clutchnet is of way higher quality.

Also the pressure plate does seem to be slightly different, the fulcrum points or whatever you want to call those seem to be angled slightly more than the stock pressure plate. I don't have any real close up pics of those, probably would be hard to tell angles on a pic anyways.

The stock clutch kit had about 2-3k miles on it and began to slip a good amount since it couldn't hold the power i have with mods in sig.

and sorry pics of pressure plates are not clearer, for some reason the front wouldn't come in clear.

I can't review the kit in car until i get my 383 back in which will probably take me another 2-3 weeks since I am going to paint the engine bay this weekend. front end is completely taken apart. Motor is ready to drop in pretty much so shouldn't be too long from now.

ss.slp.ls1

iTrader: (36)

What is the power rating?

zbomb5610

iTrader: (2)

i am not really sure to be honest. They made a custom disc for me which isn't on their website which is more organic based and shouldn't be as aggressive. They told me i could have gone with the 6 puc disc but I would have to resurface everything within a year or so since it is the most aggressive disc they have. I wanted something that would handle at least 450-500 at the wheels and last a decent amount of time so this is what he recommended.

BALLSS

I got their "organic" disc and modified PP. went to see how they make their clutches and agree they are "built" better than most.

We discussed various options and if I was still beating the 1/4 mile I would have gone with their 6 puc disc.

They disassemble a LT4 PP and heat the diaphram, add more angle to it and then reassemble the PP. My stock PP measured about 2300 lbs to compress it and their modified PP took just under 3000 lbs. pedal feel is firmer but not so hard that it is a PIA to drive in traffic.

on your 383 assume it is "internal" balance motor now. Get your FW "neutral" balanced if it is not already a aftermarket one and then have the PP balanced with it. machine shop took off about 2 grms from the PP.

gregrob

iTrader: (8)

So you ditched the ZOOM clutch?

wrd1972

iTrader: (12)

The clutchnet disk above appears to have more friction surface area than the stock disk. Obviously thats a good thing for having more grip.

I certainly do not know their products but for organic friction linings to hold the power you mentioned and actually last a reasonable amount of time is a tall order. Maybe along with their stronger PP it can, but I am skeptical and you will just have to let us know.

***** is right, they are modding the diagpragm spring to provide more force. The fulcrum points are machined into the base plate of the PP and can not be moved unless you cast a whole new base plate. The pictures show it looking like a nice product and I want to hear how it works for you once you have a few thousand miles on it.

OP,
If it is not installed yet, please provide another pic. Lay the disk flat on the PP like in your last pic above and shoot it. I want to see the side profile (thin edge) of the disk.

zbomb5610

iTrader: (2)

I will definitely post up my thoughts of the kit when I get it in the car which will still be a few weeks.

I will try to get those pics for you when I get home from work today.

And to *****, I will double check everything and take it somewhere to make sure it is all balanced. I do have a stock flywheel.

BALLSS

yes...2nd season and it died at the track

racing does take it's toll on any clutch

...after the research I did in replaceing the ZOOM I don't feel Kevlar is ideal for a street clutch material....it will glaze on city driving so you need to beat on it to keep the glaze off.

BALLSS

WRD

The organic material, IMHO, will not hold up to repeated track use in my or any car making 400 RWHP. I decided to go with it since my days at the track in my car will be few if any. Longevity and street maners moved to the top of the list.

I may have CN make me a DF disc since my feeling is the organic/organic may not last long term in terms of slipping.

Also my organic material is not what the OP has...something CN made for me with material they had for 30 years but is not made anymore and they only have enough to make a few discs. It has asbestos in it but was the material all clutches were made of back in the 60-70's when GTO, Chevelle, Dodge Magnum cars etc were running sticks. stuff takes a beating and will not die.

when I showed it to the guy at the Balance Shop that does my machine work (old school guy) he said "that's the stuff" clutches were made from. It has copper fibers in it also but because of Asbestos it got killed many years ago. Supposedly even if it over heats it will return to it original state...we will see.

BALLSS

the "stock" FW has a weight cast into it about 3" long and curved. On mine they ground it off and then added pins in various holes on the edge of the FW to "neutral" balance it. It was about $40 for the balance.

the pic you can see the "shinny" pins in the holes of FW

BALLSS

WRD

I ahve a pic from side view...just not on my office puter. I will post tonight.

as far as "more surface" material...maybe the disc may but the ring on PP is stock so that is the contact area on PP side...FW yeah possible since it has a larger area than PP

the "thickness" of disc is the same as any "stock" disc as far as I can tell.

I also did a measurement of the "angle" of the PP fingers on CN & stock PP and there was a measurable difference. I can post those pics that show about 1/8" difference. Rather crude measurement method but does document the CN PP is altered in that regard.

I will note that my research in just about every clutch manufacturer out there in terms of WTF if anything they do to "modify" clamp force did get varied answers but CN was adament they do and went into detail on how they do it.

SPEC said they do but would not devulge "company secrets" and did forward a picture of a PP in a "machine" that appeared to be a press of some form and another (but separate pic) of a digital read out showing 3360 lbs. My research showed the press shown in their pic is a rivet press and the company stated to be the manufacturer makes rivit presses so I can't confirm if it is in fact a pressure measureing device nor did SPEC elaborate on how the modify pressure. If they do I suspect it is how CN does it.

McLeod, ZOOM said they do not modify LT1/4. Did not get a reply on others I ?

gregrob

iTrader: (8)

What about brass / cerametallic dual friction. The clutch I was gonna try from competition clutch is made from this.

BALLSS

the "DF" clutch discs I have seen are organic on one side (typically PP) and a "puc" material on other. sometimes kevlar, ceramic or carbon metalic.

"what" makes up the ceramic types may vary.

it is the "construction" of the clutch parts between companies I have taken note of. Many clutch companies source their spline/hub pieces from China and then make the outer disc part. McLeod and CN do make their own hubs. ZOOM is from China. Can't get a answer from SPEC. Most all of them get their friction materials from similar sources.

A more aggressive material will hold more which is better for track but chatter and city driving will be issues.

The "DF" discs attempt to bridge that but there is even trade off's in that.

A dual disc clutch is what the newer 500 hp production cars now have and I suspect is the best way to go for power holding and driveability...just $

gregrob

iTrader: (8)

.....

zbomb5610

iTrader: (2)

so turns out i won't be getting home till saturday morning, I will get you those pics then of the clutchnet and the stock in that position.

the guy at clutchnet told me he did some type of custom organic clutch disc for me, not the standard according to him, so i don't know.

BALLSS

FWIW this is a shot of my CN side view

speed_demon24

iTrader: (6)

There's no reason to go with a dual friction clutch. My ram powergrip HD has no chatter and drives pretty much like a stock clutch. You just need to find a quality clutch company that isn't into gimmicks.

gregrob

iTrader: (8)

and what material is your Ram powergrip made of?

Are you suggesting that competition clutch, clutchnet, centerforce and every other manufacturer that uses dual friction components are selling snake oil?

I thought the way competition clutch rated their stuff was very straight forward and it seems to work well for those I know using it.

BALLSS

"gimmicks"...

RAM also claims to have 30% more 'clamp force" in it's PP. If true i suspect they do the same modification to the PP as CN does by changeing the angle of diaphram. this is not rocket science. increased clamp force will make any clutch hold better.

from RAM web site:

"HDX Performance Clutch sets
GREAT DRIVEABILITY AND PERFORMANCE TO 450 HORSEPOWER
The basic RAM concept of clutch performance is simple: Increased clamp pressure is the single most effective way to manage high horsepower or load, especially in street driven performance cars. We purpose build RAM HDX pressure plates with 30% more clamp pressure than stock. The second important feature is smooth, chatter free operation, which we achieve with premium organic composite disc friction material. Also, HDX discs feature our exclusive 8-spring hub assembly for added load capacity. HDX. Great driveability and control for power levels to 450 horsepower. Sets include pressure plate, disc, release bearing, and alignment tool unless otherwise noted."

RAM "DF" clutch

" Powergrip Performance Clutch sets
MUSCLE CAR PERFORMANCE TO 550 HORSEPOWER
As power levels move up to and beyond 500 horsepower. RAM POWERGRIP meets the challenge with a combination of organic and metallic disc friction surfaces that effectively increase the clutch capacity to the 550 horsepower level. The 8-spring hub is equipped with RAM POLYCOIL damper springs encapsulated in polyurethane. This spring can handle three times the shock load of just the coil spring, and is standard in all RAM competition discs. The RAM Competition pressure plate in this kit provides 30% more clamp pressure than stock, and meets SFI specifications. At this high level of performance RAM POWERGRIP provides surprisingly good driving characteristics with smooth, comfortable driver control. Sets include pressure plate, disc, release bearing, and alignment tool unless otherwise noted."

I bought a RAM and SPEC 2+ at the same time and based on how it was constructed i chose the SPEC over the RAM and returned the RAM. The weak link i did not like was the flimsy attachment of the spline to the friction material ring and 'bolts" were used vs rivets to secure hub togeather..no lock washer or lock tite.

i have a 4200 lb car so weight is a disadvantage for me. another b-body running the RAM posted his '2 piece" disc after it seperated from the hub. i am more in favor of a disc constructed with a solid plate vs one attached to the hub by 'spokes" of some type.

Not saying SPEC is superior just compared side by side I went with SPEC at the time. That clutch did grab well but only lived a few thousand miles and died after a few dozen 1/4 mi passes.

pics of RAM DF clutch (new) and SPEC (dead)

speed_demon24

iTrader: (6)

The less side with the less grippy material is always going to be the weak link on a dual friction clutch. Here's what my mcload clutch looked like after ~25k miles.




The powergrip hd has sintered iron on both sides. It also didn't require any break-in.