Will an EWP keep the temps cooler?
06-11-2010, 07:53 PM
#1
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Will an EWP keep the temps cooler? On hot days, my LT1 gets hotter than I would like. The temp regularly stays at 180 but if the weather is hot it runs much hotter. Any suggestions to keep it cool?
06-11-2010, 08:10 PM
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Yes, it will, however, I would suggest a 160 degree thermostat and changing your fan temperature on/off in the ECM first. Do all that and an electric water pump, you will run just over 160 on the highway and not much above 185 idling.
06-12-2010, 02:12 AM
#6
The EWP is more for HP gains than for its cooling properties. It should be noted that the factory pump does a much better job at cooling at higher RPMs, since the EWP does not increase speed and flow with RPMs, but maintains a higher RPM at idle than the stock pump. At idle, EWP > stock. At high RPMS, stock > EWP.
The advantage is that you can circulate coolant with the motor off - handy when you're in the pits/staging lanes. I can cool my car completely down within 5 minutes by running the pump and fans. Real nice.
The advantage is that you can circulate coolant with the motor off - handy when you're in the pits/staging lanes. I can cool my car completely down within 5 minutes by running the pump and fans. Real nice.
06-12-2010, 08:45 AM
#7
The EWP is more for HP gains than for its cooling properties. It should be noted that the factory pump does a much better job at cooling at higher RPMs, since the EWP does not increase speed and flow with RPMs, but maintains a higher RPM at idle than the stock pump. At idle, EWP > stock. At high RPMS, stock > EWP.
The advantage is that you can circulate coolant with the motor off - handy when you're in the pits/staging lanes. I can cool my car completely down within 5 minutes by running the pump and fans. Real nice.
The advantage is that you can circulate coolant with the motor off - handy when you're in the pits/staging lanes. I can cool my car completely down within 5 minutes by running the pump and fans. Real nice.
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06-12-2010, 10:02 AM
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Right up until you hit the flow restriction of the thermostat. No way will you push 55gpm through one without LOTS of pressure. I seriously doubt you'll run any cooler with an electric pump, as engine temp is governed nicely by the thermostat. Pumps don't control temperature.
06-12-2010, 10:48 AM
#10
Those who understand elementary school science classes will understand you can not get more flow with less parasitic loss by converting rotation to electricity and back to rotation as opposed to just using existing rotation to turn the stock pump. The belief is such an idea is a belief in perpetual motion machines.
The electric pumps are free flow rated and as simple impellers they will reduce flow greatly when restricted.
The stock pump according to SAE flows up to 66gpm AS INSTALLED at about 4800engine rpms. The dyno tests show the electrics free up somewhere on the order of 6-10rwhp, SAE data suggests it takes as much as 11hp to turn, I would call those numbers roughly in agreement. Look up how much output the 8amps for the 55gpm Mezier is in HP. There are ways to convert amps to HP use 13.5volts and 8amps and you tell my how much HP it is and how it can possibly do the same work as the stocker. It comes out to like .15hp which makes perfect sense if you look at the size. Also a stock alternator making 135amps is just under 2.5hp if everything is 100% efficient.
Once you have some basic understanding of science it is completely idiotic to think the electrics do more work.
The 30gpm units will RAISE cruise temps if you have gears up in the 4.10 neighborhood. Even with a 55gpm unit the temp rise during a pass will be greater.
The electrics are ADEQUATE, nothing more. The belief they do more work than the stocker is nothing short of raging stupidity and belief in 1700s era "science" of perpetual motion. You can not convert energy forms repeatedly and gain efficiency. The argument that they move more water at idle does seem to be true but pointless at the same time seeing as the engine makes so little heat at idle. I put an electric in the car for that .1 at the track, and with the Caprice's huge well fed radiator I saw 75mph cruise temps RISE even in cool weather. Temp drops back down at 35mph, nothing dangerous or even worry some and will only be seen if you watch the temps in something like Datamaster. Dash gauge does not show it.
I only hammer on this when imbeciles have to come here saying how much more cooling and flow electrics give. I am NOT saying they are bad, I am saying make some attempt at basic understanding before you go giving false data.
fleetmgr, the LT1 cooling system circulates within the block rather than cavitating when the stat is closed, so the coolant still moves, it just doesn't get to the radiator. SAE documents on the LT1 cooling system cover this too and haw drastic the reduction in cavitation is compared to the gen 1.
For those who really want a better understanding and are willing to spend a few bucks.
http://papers.sae.org/920673
If the moderators don't like this non-sponsor link and want it taken down. go to SAE website, Marketplace, paper number 920673
Those who download it will see that it shows 66gpm at 6000pump rpms, the earlier stated 4800engine rpms is based on the fact the gear on the back of the timing gear is larger than the driven gear for the pump so it is overdriven and the pump turns faster than the engine. Cam is half engine rpm and the gear ratio for the WP gears is 2.48, feel free to count them and verify my math there.
The electric pumps are free flow rated and as simple impellers they will reduce flow greatly when restricted.
The stock pump according to SAE flows up to 66gpm AS INSTALLED at about 4800engine rpms. The dyno tests show the electrics free up somewhere on the order of 6-10rwhp, SAE data suggests it takes as much as 11hp to turn, I would call those numbers roughly in agreement. Look up how much output the 8amps for the 55gpm Mezier is in HP. There are ways to convert amps to HP use 13.5volts and 8amps and you tell my how much HP it is and how it can possibly do the same work as the stocker. It comes out to like .15hp which makes perfect sense if you look at the size. Also a stock alternator making 135amps is just under 2.5hp if everything is 100% efficient.
Once you have some basic understanding of science it is completely idiotic to think the electrics do more work.
The 30gpm units will RAISE cruise temps if you have gears up in the 4.10 neighborhood. Even with a 55gpm unit the temp rise during a pass will be greater.
The electrics are ADEQUATE, nothing more. The belief they do more work than the stocker is nothing short of raging stupidity and belief in 1700s era "science" of perpetual motion. You can not convert energy forms repeatedly and gain efficiency. The argument that they move more water at idle does seem to be true but pointless at the same time seeing as the engine makes so little heat at idle. I put an electric in the car for that .1 at the track, and with the Caprice's huge well fed radiator I saw 75mph cruise temps RISE even in cool weather. Temp drops back down at 35mph, nothing dangerous or even worry some and will only be seen if you watch the temps in something like Datamaster. Dash gauge does not show it.
I only hammer on this when imbeciles have to come here saying how much more cooling and flow electrics give. I am NOT saying they are bad, I am saying make some attempt at basic understanding before you go giving false data.
fleetmgr, the LT1 cooling system circulates within the block rather than cavitating when the stat is closed, so the coolant still moves, it just doesn't get to the radiator. SAE documents on the LT1 cooling system cover this too and haw drastic the reduction in cavitation is compared to the gen 1.
For those who really want a better understanding and are willing to spend a few bucks.
http://papers.sae.org/920673
If the moderators don't like this non-sponsor link and want it taken down. go to SAE website, Marketplace, paper number 920673
Those who download it will see that it shows 66gpm at 6000pump rpms, the earlier stated 4800engine rpms is based on the fact the gear on the back of the timing gear is larger than the driven gear for the pump so it is overdriven and the pump turns faster than the engine. Cam is half engine rpm and the gear ratio for the WP gears is 2.48, feel free to count them and verify my math there.
06-13-2010, 12:58 AM
#11
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I have an EWP. My car has more consistent temps now and never really goes over 190* unless I am WOT back to back. Plus you will get a nice power gain, and if it fails it won't take your opti out with it. Do knock the EWP unless you've tried one...
06-13-2010, 05:33 AM
#12
I have one and am capable of basic comprehension. That is what puts me at odds with most of you so much of the time.
As viewed in datamaster at 75mph the car now runs hotter than it does at 35mph. At a steady 75mph in 50degree weather the 30gpm electric is already begining to lose it's ability to keep things cool. I can cruise like that for hours and the temp stays about 4-5degrees warmer than it did with the mechanical. So it is not so low on capacity that it causes a problem, but the proof is there that it is already falling well behind the mechanical.
As viewed in datamaster at 75mph the car now runs hotter than it does at 35mph. At a steady 75mph in 50degree weather the 30gpm electric is already begining to lose it's ability to keep things cool. I can cruise like that for hours and the temp stays about 4-5degrees warmer than it did with the mechanical. So it is not so low on capacity that it causes a problem, but the proof is there that it is already falling well behind the mechanical.
06-13-2010, 04:22 PM
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I guess I need to re-structure my question. What concerns me the most is that my car has lost some of it's function. I can't run the A/C in the hot weather because the temps get up too hot. What can I do to keep the car running cool on hot days? Different coolant? EWP? I'll try anything.
06-13-2010, 04:32 PM
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Car has a 160 thermostat and typically runs around 180 when the outside temps are reasonable. On hot days without A/C it goes up to 190 to 200.
06-13-2010, 04:37 PM
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I have one and am capable of basic comprehension. That is what puts me at odds with most of you so much of the time.
As viewed in datamaster at 75mph the car now runs hotter than it does at 35mph. At a steady 75mph in 50degree weather the 30gpm electric is already begining to lose it's ability to keep things cool. I can cruise like that for hours and the temp stays about 4-5degrees warmer than it did with the mechanical. So it is not so low on capacity that it causes a problem, but the proof is there that it is already falling well behind the mechanical.
As viewed in datamaster at 75mph the car now runs hotter than it does at 35mph. At a steady 75mph in 50degree weather the 30gpm electric is already begining to lose it's ability to keep things cool. I can cruise like that for hours and the temp stays about 4-5degrees warmer than it did with the mechanical. So it is not so low on capacity that it causes a problem, but the proof is there that it is already falling well behind the mechanical.
It's not a perpetual motion machine, but the benefits that it offers outweigh the use of a mechanical pump.
06-13-2010, 04:48 PM
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like stated above, your car is gonna run warmer in warmer weather cause the air moving across the radiator is hotter, but that does not mean the car will over heat unless something is off is some way... a cooler t-stat will let the engine run cooler ( minimum operating temp ) but the fans will have to turn on at a cooler temp to take advantage of this, An EWP is not mandatory for a cooler running engine, this is all debatable, I have one, and I love it... BUT, as a golden rule more coolant flow (gpm) DOES NOT mean cooler engine temps, sometimes slower moving coolant ( within reason) is better because it gives the radiator "time" to do it's job, by allowing the fans to pull more heat out of the engine and not having hot coolant rush right back into a hot engine...
06-13-2010, 08:04 PM
#20
